Touring Car Masters

[HKSZ]

No zeds harmed in the making of this video

 

[nizm0zed]

ouch.
A lot of classic metal getting bent there, but that's motor racing.
You don't put a car on the track unless your prepared to crash it.

[Howdy]

“You don't put a car on the track unless your prepared to crash it.”

 

Really? Here’s a little pearl for you. No one in this class racing is prepared for that level of carnage unless they or their sponsors have bottomless pockets and don’t care about their car….Probably none!!

 

This is different to Hyundai racing where the car is just a vehicle to get the Driver to the podium and further their career. Sure they might accumulate some old parts and panels and it’s in the back of their minds but that’s about it, mentally no one is prepared.

 

Most of these Guys are just as passionate as all of us on this forum about old metal, maybe more because they go that extra step and put their car on the track. They will be devastated. I for one absolutely love to see these cars on the track as they were back in the day and not hidden away in a man cave next to a fancy coffee machine, leather bar stools and automotive memorabilia. I know some of these Guys, sure some might have plenty of coin but the passion is there just the same. My heart sunk seeing this and I felt for these Guys. It’s like saying “well if you drive your Z on the road you gotta be prepared to have it written off by some crap Driver in a Camry”. Comments like this, to me, just read “I told you so“.

 

Damn soapbox just broke, now I got to find another one.

[Agno]

It's ok you can use mine because you're bang on the money

 

Damn soapbox just broke, now I got to find another one.

[260DET]

It seems to me that they take the racing just a bit too seriously though, those old cars don't handle or brake that well so a bit more respect by the drivers would help. To explain, it is not a suitable class for anyone wanting to make a name for himself or progress his racing career so there is really no excuse to go so hard on cold tyres that there is a significant risk of loosing control. It's a fine line I know, perhaps the presence of J Bowe stirs them up.

[dat2kman]

You wanna see/hear the footage/comment, from John Bowe.

He ended up with broken ribs.

 

When I raced, there was always that constant underlying thought,

"Will something break, Will someone hit me, Where is everyone else around me, Whet are they doing???"

You tend to back off a touch, run at 8 or 9 /10ths

Unless one has done this, you will never have a full understanding.

There are plenty out there that think they know it all.

It isa bit scary, the first few laps, a Standing start, a Rolling start, the squeal of a locked brake right next to your open window, into a corner, or your very own " shit shit shit" moments, that you yourself instgated

 

When you lose the ability to control your destiny, after an incident, you rapidly realise you are just flesh and blood, and can't do a damn thing, and hope that each hit, is not hard.

[PeterAllen]

I think you're taking nizmOzed's comment too literally.  Sure it may have been worded a little less provocatively but I took the essence to be that accidents happen in motorsport and you have to accept that and be prepared for the consequences - why else would you bother wearing a helmet!

 

As is suggested, I'm sure you would never see professional L34/A9X drivers over-doing it in the first couple of corners... cough, cough.

 

See 2:50

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by PeterAllen

[hmd]

You wanna see/hear the footage/comment, from John Bowe.

He ended up with broken ribs.

 

When I raced, there was always that constant underlying thought,

"Will something break, Will someone hit me, Where is everyone else around me, Whet are they doing???"

You tend to back off a touch, run at 8 or 9 /10ths

Unless one has done this, you will never have a full understanding.

There are plenty out there that think they know it all.

It isa bit scary, the first few laps, a Standing start, a Rolling start, the squeal of a locked brake right next to your open window, into a corner, or your very own " shit shit shit" moments, that you yourself instgated

 

When you lose the ability to control your destiny, after an incident, you rapidly realise you are just flesh and blood, and can't do a damn thing, and hope that each hit, is not hard.

 

Remember 2012 PI Classic when the red Porsche tripled barrel rolled after hitting oil from the Corvette?

 

This is me getting to the scene and you are on the side facing the wrong way.

[260DET]

If those TCM drivers really want to get serious at Bathurst then they might want to try going though the Kink flat, instead of braking before it as they do.

[nizm0zed]

“You don't put a car on the track unless your prepared to crash it.”

 

Really? Here’s a little pearl for you. No one in this class racing is prepared for that level of carnage unless they or their sponsors have bottomless pockets and don’t care about their car….Probably none!!

 

Not trying to piss you off because I see your point, but if they werent prepared for the chance, no matter how remote, that the car could be damaged, then leave it in the garage.

And yes, you do need to accept that if you drive your zed on the road there is a risk some idiot in a camry will run into it.

Its happened before and it'll happen again, but that is a risk of life.

In that example you can mitigate the risks by not using the zed as a daily driver, let the idiot camry driver run into your insured and disposable Falcadore.

Same deal on the track. you understand, accept and respect the risks. If your not prepared for the outcome, no matter how remote it might be then motorsports isnt for you, or alternatively stay in a class where its not going to be a big problem for you, like the hyundai cup.

Beleive me, I feel for everyone involved in the incident, whether they are small budget enthusiasts or multi million dollar corporate backed teams, seeing a big scrap like that is never fun.

[Agno]

It seems to me that they take the racing just a bit too seriously though, those old cars don't handle or brake that well so a bit more respect by the drivers would help. To explain, it is not a suitable class for anyone wanting to make a name for himself or progress his racing career so there is really no excuse to go so hard on cold tyres that there is a significant risk of loosing control. It's a fine line I know, perhaps the presence of J Bowe stirs them up.

 

If those TCM drivers really want to get serious at Bathurst then they might want to try going though the Kink flat, instead of braking before it as they do.

 

 

why.must.there.be.the.same.arguments.in.every.motorsport.related.thread.ever.

[gav240z]

 

why.must.there.be.the.same.arguments.in.every.motorsport.related.thread.ever.

 

There was an old Yellow Pages commercial on TV years ago, 2 old men, neighbours watering their garden's when 1 decides to wet the other and then they are both spraying each other with garden hoses until 1 of them ends up with a water logged ear. The ad is about finding a doctor in the yellow pages to help the old sod get on the mend as he nurses his ear (ear pain can be horrible mind you).

 

Anyway point is, the way these 2 argue is like the old men bickering in the yellow pages commercial.

 

I really wish I could find the commercial again, but sadly nobody appears to have uploaded it to Youtube yet. It would make for an excellent Internet winning meme.

[TomC18]

Love the Vid Peter, altho couldn't see my roadster in it, too may Sprites crashing... is there a '75 or '77 version? it was about then that my roadster had a big shunt at either Amaroo or Oran Park and got rebuilt in time for Group T.  Check the authentic go fast moustaches!

[dat2kman]

Remember 2012 PI Classic when the red Porsche tripled barrel rolled after hitting oil from the Corvette?

 

This is me getting to the scene and you are on the side facing the wrong way.

All I remember is that I stalled it, rolling backwards, the sound of gravel flicking up off tyres, watching you lot come at me through the dust, thinking which one is gonna kiss my nose, and, i am hearing a tearing metal thumping banging, goung on somewhere behind me.

The Ginetta went across my bow,,,

You just wait till it ends!

[dat2kman]

Agno,

Don't worry, he has no bloody clue.

"Going through Kink flat out and not braking"

Sure,,,,,,

[nizm0zed]

maybe his car is slow enough to do that....

[260DET]

Perhaps you talkers should give Bathurst a go, see what it's actually like.

 

The 'flat through the Kink' TCM comment was made in reference to the previous comment about their relatively poor handling and braking but I was surprised to see that. For example in the video tir33d put up of his 280ZX V8 there is a balancing lift but he brakes easily after the Kink and he was not hanging around. Incidentially this year I'll be trying particularly to get a recorded high speed run through the Kink, it's a self imposed challenge, no wing either even though I have one.

 

What recorded speed did you go through the Kink Jason?  "he has no bloody clue" eh, how about for once you provide some hard facts to support your racer claims? Lakeside which everyone agrees is a real driver's circuit? LOL.

 

EDIT: For those who made ignorant comments about speeds through the Kink, better look at two S30 in car videos from 2016, one by RLY240 who was flat, the other by 24 Dat who did lift slightly but as usual braked after. Facts > Fantasy.

Edited May 24, 2017 by 260DET

[PZG302]

Well, Richard I have a verified speed reading by a Constable from the NSW Highway Patrol of 197km/h through the kink at the Chase in a standard VP wagon with two passengers. That was done flat, no lift off because it wouldn't go any faster. I was also moving across the track about 8 feet according to the fire/rescue vehicle following me at the hump in conrod with the tyres still juuussssttt touching the ground.

 

So what prize do I win???

 

The only thing old about the TCM cars are the body shells and the fact they use push rod motors for the V8's and the Valiant, brakes and suspension are the latest technologies, and for a billiard table smooth surface like a race track, the modified leaf spring rear ends can be made to work a whole lot better than independent suspension in the right hands. Thise cars are not very standard underneath and are $120k plus builds to be playing up the front.

 

In terms of driving corners flat, in my 180BSSS IPRA car just about any corner was flat, turn one at Eastern Creek, the kink on the long Oran Park circuit, as was most fast corners in my Zed when I ran the RX7 Bird bath, when the standard bobtail went on I had to brake or lift for most of those fast corners, so again your comments don't really show much knowledge of cars.

 

Formula Fords will go through the kink at Bathurst flat out at a shade over 200km/h with no aero, F3 cars flat at about 260 with aero, GT3 cars, again about 260-280km/h depending on the car. 

 

2 litre Super Tourers were going through the kink flat at about 250-260km/h in the mid to late 90's. National Sports Sedans go through the kink at up to 300km/h and Paul Stubbard in his series 1 TCM Camaro did hit 300km/h through the kink after spending the whole race weekend setting the car up to do specifically that and not really worry about the racing.

 

In terms of racing, flat out speed through a corner is not the be all and end all when you are trying to pass other cars, in fact to be faster and pass, sometimes you need to go slower....

[260DET]

Good info, which makes the fact that the TCM cars brake seriously before the Kink more inexplicable which was the reason for my previous comments. To take that theme further, rather than get over excited at the start and cause a big crash how about gaining time by passing someone though the Kink, well maybe that's a bit extreme but still it's not impossible.

 

Unfortunately there is no Z Kink speed info around, my guess is that 220kph is about average, the bloody GPS speedo in my car was virtually unreadable but I did see two forty something once.  

[RLY240]

 

Unfortunately there is no Z Kink speed info around, my guess is that 220kph is about average, the bloody GPS speedo in my car was virtually unreadable but I did see two forty something once.  

 

Mine touched 226 last year on the GPS (not this lap).

[dat2kman]

Richard doing those super fasts,??, and lapping in the over 3 minute mark!!!

You are not as quick as you try to convince everyone you think you are. It shows up on the consistent lap times

 

You want facts? Well fact off on these numbers!

On gearcalc, using RPM at lift off point, just before tip in to Kink, In a four cylinder bluff fronted car, ( Datsun 2000) with no wings/aero, speed is 230-235kph, with lap times of 2.43

The GpS 280 Z was at same speed, but lap times of 2.45 ( heavier car, slower getting out of the corners)

 

The current lap record, for any Datsun Z car, at Bathurst. is held by Wayne Potts, in a 260Z, a Group S car, yes, all pretty standard, stock cheescutter brakes, 6" tyres, at 2.41:6

 

Robertsons 3.2 litre triple carbed, big braked ( a sports sedan) managed a 2.38, but was mostly 2.40's this is not a lap record

[260DET]

At last, some Bathurst facts from Jason so let's compare them.

 

Your S30, top speed say 233, best lap 2:43, how does that self proclaimed racer time compare with 2016 S30 regularity times. RLY240 did a 2:45 with a top speed of 226 so less power than you, 24 Dat on semi slicks did a 2:40 complete with sun roof. And RLY240 went through the Kink flat and you didn't which is probably why you are so touchy about the subject.

 

Now for some Lakeside facts lol.

Edited May 25, 2017 by 260DET

[C.A.R.]

What was this thread about again?

[hmd]

What was this thread about again?

 

comparing dick sizes?

[1600dave]

MK63 calipers, I think ??

Edited May 26, 2017 by 1600dave