Sirpent Posted July 20, 2011 Author Posted July 20, 2011 David ! Love the new Avatar by the way !!!!!!!!!1 Quote
FLEXZED Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Someone is excited ;D ;D ;D ;D about time bratko hope all goes well with the install Loui Quote
nizm0zed Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 AT LAST It's official, motor should be here at Melbourne Docks on Friday 17th of August !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where's the like button gav!?!? Good news john, glad to see its still coming along full steam ahead. I'll keep watching Quote
NZeder Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 I bet that is how you feel knowing it is heading to the land downunder Quote
Sirpent Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 Thanks guys....... I have had a number of difficulties of late of a personal nature and the transit has had to take a back seat which is annoying as all I have been able to do it tinker with other cosmetic items in the meanwhile and that in turn has probably left a lot of you wondering if not imagining that I'm a bit of a "Dreamer and Gunna" I'm now also on the hunt for a T56 box as oppossed to a Getrag which the feelers have gone out on and hopefully somewhere around September/October I will be calling on some of you to come help with the chassis upgrade so as to get this jigger into its new home. If I can get past these hurdles the body work doesn't phase me at all and from there on in it should be a more steady course and progress. Once again, thanks to you all for putting up with my rants and at times inconsequential updates, promise to make the thread a more exciting read in the coming months. Cheers John Quote
Sirpent Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 Hey, good news John! Diff mounting shouldn't be too hard but the two Peter's have probably mentioned the importance of driveline alignment which is somewhat dictated by your tailshaft or more to the point the type of joints. Did you get the MB tailshaft? Assume it will be rubber guibo at the front and CV at the rear? If yes you will need to juggle crank centreline and pinion nose so they are aligned as the rubber guibo wont tolerate even a small amount of deflection. I think most T56 are rubber guibo at the output? Hi David Just getting back to you on this, I spoke to Jay at M@S Drive Shafts today, these guys do most of the mod work on custom cars this side of town and have been around since Noah to discuss the tailshaft scenario and requirements in my Zed. Jay custom fabricates tail shafts and installs them in Shelby Cobra replica's that use the diff and box set up I'm going for and his basic response was that the way they are set up in these cars is to have the diff and box yokes aligned perfectly down the drivetrains center line but to offset the diff either 5-10 degrees above or below that line. As far as joints are concerned he recommends going with universals and having adaptors made up to mate to the diff and box yokes and guarantees I wont have any issues at all. Thoughts anyone? Cheers John Quote
KatoKid Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 To be honest John its really a case of horses for courses. Comes down to whats the most effective, easiest and how much time / money you want to spend. My motivation to use the guibo and CV from the BMW shaft comes from Ron Tyler's comments about driveline vibrations under hard acceleration, he found in all high HP conversions there was this annoying vibration which he attributed to universal joints and the short length of our shafts. In addition, I had to offset my engine to the drivers side for sump clearonce on the tension rod and this matches the diff offset so it was a no brainer. Using universals will allow you more freedom with engine/ trans and diff placement as long as you adhere to the parallel alignment requirements. Quote
PeterAllen Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 ...So this weekend I have some reason to get to work on designing and mocking up a new cradle assy which will support the diff and firm up the rear suspension, I chose this over the commodore equivalent due to the mounting arrangement.... John - Just make sure your engineer is happy with the cradle design before you get too far into it - that it's within the regulations, etc. I'll be following closely as I'm not completely happy with my Holden diff mounting configuration and would welcome an alternative. Quote
PeterAllen Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 ... As far as joints are concerned he recommends going with universals and having adaptors made up to mate to the diff and box yokes and guarantees I wont have any issues at all. Thoughts anyone?... I could be cynical and ask if the M@S guy was also kind enough to say he could make up the adaptors for a price! My thought is this; the tailshalf assembly is only as strong as it's weakest link, and if Holden and BMW fit 'guibo' joints them they must be capable of handling the power and torque. What they can't tolerate is deflection so they are always fitted in an accurate alignment situation. Fortunate for me my gearbox and diff aligned perfectly and I have used a 'guibo' on each end. Admittedly I will be running 60s period narrow tyres and combined with the light weight of the car the weak link in my drivetrain will be the the tyre contact with the road. Quote
Sirpent Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 Hi David You have a very valid point regarding the tailshaft length and this is something I also put to jay as a concern, as he explained with the Shelby Cobra replica's they do utilising similar hardware to what I'm proposing, their tail shafts are only 22 cm's long but assured me that using universals was a sound option, nevertheless I will be heading down to see him and discuss this in person. As for the Benz tailshaft it would be pointless as I will now be using a manual T56 rather than the speedshift so if i was looking at modifying any sort of OEM item it would probably be a BF tailshaft, all hypothetical at this stage but I wanted some basic alignment info first up. Peter At this stage all I will be doing is coming up with a cradle design in a mock up stage to see how well the diff can be placed within the constraints of the rear area and in relation to the control arms, what I am envisaging is utilising the moustache bar as a suspension mounting and fabricating a new beam from which I will then run a web structure down to the rearward control arm beam more or less creating a single structure. From that point forward I will run 2 horizontal beams to the forward facing control arm mount therefore creating a cradle off the original mounting points. The idea then is to use these beams as the bases for the side mounts for the M86 diff mounts. At the rear I will use the factory mount that bolts to the diff cover and have this bolted to the new rear moustache mount. The idea is that this moustache replacement will look similar to a C4 Corvette set up as per attached. If it works, then I can have the engineer go over it and advise what final modifications need to be made, a lot easier than trying to convey ideas and concepts. As far as the adaptors, yes it has been done and he has offered to show me when I come down. Hope this all makes sense. Cheers John Quote
Sirpent Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 UPDATE Secured my T56 6 speed box today out of a VX SS, comes complete with bellhousing, flywheel, clutch assy and tailshaft, should be here from Hervey Bay in the next week so the drivetrain is almost complete and will be awaiting the motor later next month. Now can anyone recommend a good CNC Router mob who can produce an adaptor plate in Melbourne? Cheers John Quote
benny Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 great... did you manage to source a flywheel yet?? Quote
Sirpent Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 Benny I will be using the Holden flywheel in conjunction with a spacer to offset the belhousing adaptor I want made up, this way I can use off the shelf and aftermarket gear moving forward. Cheers John Quote
260DET Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I hate the idea of a spacer behind the flywheel, it's simply poor engineering concerning a part that if it comes loose can cause terrible injury. Might be an idea to see if the the bellhousing can be modded to suit or a custom flywheel be made so no spacer is needed. Quote
Sirpent Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 OK Yes I can understand the trepidations about using a spacer, however we are not talking a massive thickness here, think in the realms of 10-15mm's. If it was lets say a 40+ mm situation yes I would agree, however the centrifugal forces acting upon the mounting bolts using such a thin spacer would be negligible and I doubt you would see a catastrophic failure. Even LS1 transplants using earlier style transmissions utilise spacer plates so I cant really see an issue, and I say this as opposed to a cut and shut of 2 bellhousings to create a seamless fit, that's would worry me a hell of a lot more to be honest. Cheers John Quote
RB30X Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I hate the idea of a spacer behind the flywheel, it's simply poor engineering concerning a part that if it comes loose can cause terrible injury. Might be an idea to see if the the bellhousing can be modded to suit or a custom flywheel be made so no spacer is needed. I agree with the above. Congrats on using the T56 box. They can handle a lot. Do yourself a favor though and throw in an LS7 clutch/flywheel instead of the ten year old vx one. These clutches are found behind 2010 ve's and onwards and are an organic clutch with a softer pedal but offer greater clamping pressure and surface area over the previous factory clutches. They are $495 from CAPA (if you are an LS1.com member, I'm getting one next week ;) ) and that includes a new flywheel as you can't use this clutch with an LS1/2 flywheel. They have a very good reputation with guys using them behind blown or cammed cars making over 300rwkw. Sure beats the heavy pedal and poor drivability of some of the aftermarket replacements. Grab a new pilot or spigot bearing too. They sit in the crankshaft wherethe gearbox shaft slides in. this will almost certainly need replacing, as will your slave cylinder. I recently had a new slave and spigot bearing arrive from the states. It was approx $300 cheaper than buying them locally. These are items that are always replaced when doing a clutch change and you might as well add it to the list while your gearbox is out to save you having to do it once it's on the road. I have to pull my whole engine and gearbox out together to change my clutch due to the limited room in the trans tunnel. Quote
Sirpent Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 Thanks for the info, Will definitely follow up on the avenues you mentioned, but please don't think that I was going to install the box and clutch as is, I only wanted to use what I'm getting for fit up purposes and have already spoken to Peter Mc about what needs to be refurbished on the box and diff before final installation. Cheers Quote
RB30X Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 please don't think that I was going to install the box and clutch as is Not at all. I was just letting you know what I've found out regarding these boxes and hope you can save yourself more work down the track. Also may need a braided line from master to slave cylinder as well as a remote clutch bleeder line. Unless you want to drill a 30mm hole in your trans tunnel for bleeding the clutch like I have. Quote
PeterAllen Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 ... as well as a remote clutch bleeder line. Unless you want to drill a 30mm hole in your trans tunnel for bleeding the clutch like I have. ... I got my remote bleed line from Mal Wood but there are DYI designs on the internet. You might also need a 90 degree reverse indicator switch connector due to the lack of room. They were fitted to Mustangs with t56s - again, I obtained one from Mal Wood. Quote
Sirpent Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 Nice work Peter. Once again, the exchange of idea's on this site never ceases to amaze me. What did you think about the cradle concept I'm working on Peter? I think the M86 diff I picked up is (I'm sorry to say) probably a better option than the Holden set up. Cheers John Quote
PeterAllen Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 ...What did you think about the cradle concept I'm working on... Exciting - any chance you could sketch something over a photo so I can interpret exactly what you're planning? Quote
Sirpent Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 Sorry Rough thumbnail, but think it will convey what I'm thinking Cheers John Quote
KatoKid Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I like John. Only one issue I see........tying the rear trellis bar that utilises the moustache bar mounts into the cradle that picks up the control arm mounts means you loose your insulation. Does the rear mount of the Ford diff have a rubber isolator, assume the front does or is the diff mounted to a cradle solidly and the cradle is insulated from the body? Quote
Sirpent Posted July 22, 2011 Author Posted July 22, 2011 Thanks David You have a very keen eye there and as always on the money, the moustache bar no longer becomes the main insulator for the differential but rather a carrier for the suspension so will be solid mounted. Nevertheless it will still carry the diff and yes the diff has a rear mounted insulator held in place by a single bolt to the diff cover and dual bolts from the insulator to the mounting point which in this case will be the new carrier design, while the front have an isulator mount either side, so the entire diff floats so to say within the cradle. By using the new carrier in this way also, distribution of suspension forces are now spread across a wider area namely the rearward rails rather than the 2 drop brackets from the cross beam between them. I think it will work nicely as a package especially once I introduce Arizona rear control arms to the mix. Cheers John Quote
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