Sirpent "Z"

[Sirpent]

Thanks Mike,

 

But the 2+2 would be considered a different version as would a station wagon to a sedan.

 

However I have emailed Paul the engineer on the premise that a Zed 2 seater at 1099kg's + 82 kg's in Fuel, Oils and cooling fluids would come in at 1181 kg's road going.

 

Therefore the equation would be 1181 x 3.0 =3543 cc or 3.5 Lt.

 

I cant see why this wouldn't be accepted.

 

Will keep everyone updated as to the ruling on this assumption.

 

However, what that also means based on your calculations is that for a NA vehicle using 1181 kg's the maximum engine size from here on in will be

1181 x 5 = 5905 cc or 5.9Lt so gone are the days of any future 6+ Lt conversions I'm afraid as this is a national not just Victorian decree.

 

Cheers

 

John

[KatoKid]

Mmmm....interesting.

 

You gave me a heart attack John when I firsted started reading this. Just had a quick scan through and I'm Ok as in NA form on original 240 weight I can go to 4180cc.

[Joiji]

I wonder how this new revision will relate to already on the road. They obviously can't revoke engineering plates from people that have been previously certified, so isn't there a precedent set for an identical build? For instance, I know of a 260 2 seater kicking around in SA with an LS2 or LS3 thrown in, which is roadworthy, etc, etc. This sets a precedent that the car can handle the power of a motor rather a lot larger than they expect to be allowed.

 

Also, their working confuses me slightly. Normally in these documents you see a max/min type deal, rather than recommended. 

 

Also, I wonder how this will affect kit car builds in the future.

[Sirpent]

Mmmm....interesting.

 

You gave me a heart attack John when I firsted started reading this. Just had a quick scan through and I'm Ok as in NA form on original 240 weight I can go to 4180cc.

 

Hey David,

 

Wasn't meant to do that, but its a wake up call for anyone planning a conversion and that's why I decided to post the info, glad your project wont be effected by it.

 

I wonder how this new revision will relate to already on the road. They obviously can't revoke engineering plates from people that have been previously certified, so isn't there a precedent set for an identical build? For instance, I know of a 260 2 seater kicking around in SA with an LS2 or LS3 thrown in, which is roadworthy, etc, etc. This sets a precedent that the car can handle the power of a motor rather a lot larger than they expect to be allowed.

 

Also, their working confuses me slightly. Normally in these documents you see a max/min type deal, rather than recommended. 

 

Also, I wonder how this will affect kit car builds in the future.

 

I don't think they can retrospectively apply this to cars already certified and by the same token I don't believe you will be able to use already certified cars as a precedent either, as far as kit cars, well those have to meet Australian ADR's and in so saying have to be certified also for the proposed drivetrain.

 

I would suspect with the tightening of rules that the same formula would apply based on what motor drivetrain the originally certified kit car was approved at for sale in Australia, this then would give you the mass weight baseline from which the maximum allowable modification or engine capacity would be derived from.

[Sirpent]

OK,

 

Got some info back from Paul regarding calculating the Mass Weight

" Tare is Tare, by definition: TARE MASS - mass of a vehicle other than a L-group vehicle ready for service, unoccupied and unladen, with all fluid reservoirs filled to nominal capacity except for fuel, which shall be 10 litres only, and with all standard equipment and any options fitted. Fuel weighs about 0.72kg/litre "

 

Therefore the formular would be "Vehicle Dry weight 1099.961 Kg" + " 10 litres of fuel 7.2 Kg" + " 17 Lt's of other fluids 12.24 Kg's" = 1119.401 Kg's

 

1119.401 x 3.0 = 3358.203cc or 3.3Lt

 

Just scrape in !   

 

 

 

[benny]

YAY Congrats man!! :) was looking grim for a while there!!

[FLEXZED]

bro

 

bet you will sleep better tonight

 

 

well done

 

Loui

 

[Sirpent]

Thanks Bro and Benny,

 

However I just got off the phone to him and the news gets better and I think its a good idea to keep the info coming regarding these rules so like minded modifiers can keep tags on developments.

 

The current set of rules are still not in force, for myself it makes no difference, be it now or later as my car will make it, however what he did say is that if the car is logged with the authorities as a going project the old rules apply even once the new ones kick in.

 

So if you are looking at a major mod that pushes your car over the edge under the new rules Id suggest you get cracking.

 

David, might be a good idea to get yours logged also at some stage.

 

Now I have a problem which I need some assistance with to get mine logged and off the ground, my car is currently on a rotiesse stripped naked, Paul the engineer has advised that he needs to do a torsional test, non destructive, on the car, or on one with the same specs in complete drivable state, in other words I am looking at someone who would submit their  2 seater post 1/75 260z to get the figures.

 

If anyone reads this that may be able to assist, can you please contact me.

 

Cheers

 

John

[FLEXZED]

bro

 

my 240z is avaiable but as you know i am in sydney

 

 

Loui

 

 

[Sirpent]

LOL,

 

Just drive it down south.

 

Its OK, it has to be a 260Z in complete roadgoing form Loui.

 

Im sure I will find someone.

 

Cheers

[zedevan]

Hey John,

 

I have a 01/76 260z 2 seater (I assume the one for testing needs to not be one of the last ones, as there's the early 260z's which are the 240z chassis, and there's a later ones which are the 280z chassis and had vented bonnets? and therefore there's the ones inbetween which are actually 260z's? (along with two slightly different 2+2's?) or have i confused myself?) which I'm planning to put a turbo rb in sometime in the next couple of years (either 26 or 30/25/26 etc, will work out which one later on depending on emissions, power, and how much i want to waste etc), but i'm sure it would be helpful for me to get the car logged as an ongoing project so i can get in under the current regulations, either way I'd be happy to help

 

The issue would be, while my car is currently close enough to complete (the front panels and bumpers are off it), it's not registered and i'm not confident it would currently move/stop under its own power as it hasn't been started for a couple of years

[KatoKid]

Hi John.

 

Whats the process to log with authorities?

[Sirpent]

Thanks evan

 

The car would be perfect but it needs to get to the testing facility, there is no driving of the car involved in the test, basically it is a bench mounted test.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

Hi John.

 

Whats the process to log with authorities?

 

David

 

You need to employ the services of an accredited engineer who then logs the project with the applicable authorities.

 

Cheers

 

John

[MaygZ]

Got some info back from Paul regarding calculating the Mass Weight

" ..... unladen, with all fluid reservoirs filled to nominal capacity except for fuel, which shall be 10 litres only, and with all standard equipment and any options fitted. "

 

John,

 

this may help.  We have been argueing about 'unladen weight' for years - particularly regarding 'P' plater's power/weight restrictions; along with 'standard equipment'.  (this is why the rules changed for them recently).

 

In no Victorian (or any other State to the best of my knowledge) Act are either terms defined.  Therefore one then uses other references for definitions.  Usually a dictionary or similar, but obvoiusly these terms seem to contradict.  Unladen - without load .. but then with 'standard accessories & options'.  The best and clearest rulings we've had so far would more than suggest that they are the items that one would 'expect' to find fitted to or included in a car.

 

These include but are not limited to:

 

Spare wheel, tool kit (jack), A/C, heated seats , stereo (standard - not doof-doof), tow-bar, etc

 

The first three were obviously standard (or available options - don't really know about A/C for the 240 but it was for 260??) that should be included in any weight calculations.  Go through an option list and see how high you can go.

 

MaygZ

[Sirpent]

Hi Simon

 

I cut and pasted the following from the PDF link mentioned in this thread previously, unfortunately there are some items that cannot be included as mentioned.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

2.13.1 Vehicle Mass

 

The mass of the vehicle referred to in Tables LA1, LA2 and LA3 is the original (unmodified) tare mass of the model vehicle fitted with the largest engine available for the model in Australia but without optional accessories (air conditioning, tow bars etc.).

 

The mass of the vehicle, whether it is a sedan, station wagon, utility, etc., should be based on the heaviest sedan version of the model(not station wagon version) sold in Australia.

 

If the laden mass of the vehicle either on the front or rear wheels is more than 10% above that for the heaviest model version of the vehicle, then justification that the vehicle is capable of satisfactory operation at these loads is required. This must include analysis of axles, suspension, steering, braking, tyre capacity and speed rating.

[Sirpent]

Just recieved some pics of my "Actual" new toys pre cleaning and packaging, I have just included the main ones rather than all the looms etc etc etc.

 

Cheers

 

John

[Sirpent]

And these

[KatoKid]

Very exciting John.

 

Looks like you will have a similar issue as me.....all the aluminium parts on my engine were badly corroded from the salt they use on the roads. Is yours from up north were they get snow?

 

Make sure you get the tailshaft. Accelerator pedal as I assume its fly by wire? Power steering lines, auto lines, shifter, all mounts, air inlet tubes and airbox. Even stuff you make think you may not use.

[benny]

Hey Kato,

 

I recently had the same issue with an rb i had with corrosion. You can buy a product from autobarn could blitz alloy cleaner, works a treat!!

[Sirpent]

Very exciting John.

 

Looks like you will have a similar issue as me.....all the aluminium parts on my engine were badly corroded from the salt they use on the roads. Is yours from up north were they get snow?

 

Make sure you get the tailshaft. Accelerator pedal as I assume its fly by wire? Power steering lines, auto lines, shifter, all mounts, air inlet tubes and airbox. Even stuff you make think you may not use.

 

Hi David, yep good advice.

 

There are a whole lot of items you mentioned that are included but I didn't upload, and he has told me that he will pack up anything left that he wont need as a bonus.

 

Yep the car is from washington State upper west coast of the USA bordering on Canada, I will probably do a minor strip of the motor anyway, and then send the parts off to get soda blasted as I did with my Weber's,

 

As far as the condition of the units I'm happy, these are as they were taken out of the car, so no apparent oil leaks and from what I can see no accident damage indicated on any of the components.

 

See what I meant by the size of the trans David, for a 5 speed it miniature.

 

Hey Kato,

 

I recently had the same issue with an rb i had with corrosion. You can buy a product from autobarn could blitz alloy cleaner, works a treat!!

 

Benny

 

You have to be careful with some solutions as they are meant for truck washing and can have an acidic effect on non alloy parts, thats why I will strip and soda blast items once they have been stripped to the core.

 

 

[KatoKid]

Thanks Benny but Im going to do same as John and strip all the aluminium bits off and have them blasted. Need to give it a good clean and paint, new front and rear crank seals etc anyway.

[RB30X]

You can't blast some things though like alternators if you want to use them again without rebuilding.

Brush on some truck wash and let it sit for a few minutes then hose off. This will remove any engine grime. That alloy cleaner as mentioned above is an aluminium de-oxidiser which removes that yuk coating on the ally parts. Brush that on everything a few times and hose off and that motor will be looking as sexy as it will sound. I did the above on my old dirty motor when I first got it.

[Sirpent]

I understand,

 

And thats what I meant when i said strip down to the core in instances like the alternator.

 

Considering the time frame the alt for instance has been sitting around and also the fact that the body has been effected from salt spray I'd be better off having the thing checked and if need be overhauled.

 

Anyhow, its all speculation until I see it in real life.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[benny]

yep as rb30 said its just deoxidiser....

[Sirpent]

Hi Crew

 

Just a few small updates.............

 

"Das Drehkraftmonster RS32 AMG"

 

have had confirmation from the shipping company that my supplier has cleaned and bundled everything up to their requirements, pick up will be in the next few days and they seem to think I shouldn't have any drama's with Australian Customs or Quarantine services once it lands.

Chassis engineering

 

Paul emailed me advising that he has been on the phone to the authorities with a number of questions regarding the build, they wanted the full emissions complied with as per a C32 Benz apparently, he counter argued with them and apparently won the argument, he is still to fully brief me but apparently I will be able to dump any emissions gear off the C32 that I ca, apart from the Cat's I'm not sure what else there would be that wouldn't interfere with the engines proper function, guess its one of those things I will suck and see.

Refurbishments.

 

Having overhauled the Weber's, and not wanting to do anymore body wise till this engine chassis deal is underway or done, I decided that I should start refurbishing some of the things I'm planning to put back into the car, so I stripped down the entire Heater / AC assy last night and spent a good part of the night and this afternoon refurbishing it.

 

The Heater core and AC core where in surprisingly good nic, the AC core just needed a de-greasing and came up trumps, the heater core seems good but I wont be risking anything and will replace it as a precaution.

 

Cleaned all the housings which were putrid, almost every bracket was partially rusted, the galv on these parts from the factory was simply useless, so all were stripped back to bare metal undercoated and enameled black.

 

Cleaned and checked all the electrical looms, valves etc and all was good, the only other part that needs to be replaced is the heater valve and associated heater hose, the valve or "C0CK" as its known shows signs of slight leakage at the rubber valve seat and seal, I wont take any chances and will try and hunt one down.

 

TIP: Before stripping one of these units down, take photo's, I got stuck a few times looking at a part trying to figure out what the F*CK !

 

So as soon as this is done vacuum packed and stored away, its the dash assy next.

 

Cheers

 

John