The Brown Hornet - as NEW 1971 240Z - SOLD

[acf321]

Ok,

 

On Friday James installed the 1" Wilwood master cylinder to get the Mk63's working as they are meant to and is waiting on the new brake lines to be made up. All the wiring is now tidied up and the fuel gauge is working, as are all the back lights. James re-tuned the carbs, fiddled and fettled generally and reports that The Brown Hornet is going even better than is was last week, and that on MONDAY or TUESDAY coming, they'll get the blue slip. Out of interest, James tells me to ONLY run the car on BP Ultimate where I can, as his experience tells him that is makes a considerable difference in these engines.

 

Got a call from Nat today, who wants the car back to re-align that bonnet and re-set all panel gaps to perfect. At the same time I'll get him to paint the radiator top tank fan guard that is currently missing and braze that on, and mix a batch of paint to do the engine louvres body colour. I'm going with old school steel mesh air filters (actually they should be called pebble filters), and only yesterday I ordered a set of bakelite hard mounts for the carbs. Can you believe that i'm already thinking about a better harmonic balancer and a Motorsport dizzy?!

 

Borrowing an OEM carpet set for the car that i'll have copied and professionally fitted in German black wool loop pile as soon as I can get the car down to the trimmer. Will ask Nat to paint the console in satin black two pack and see how that turns out.

 

I ordered the number plates too, which i'm particularly excited about. 240-ZEE white numerals on Black. Naturally I looked for all variations of HORNET, but could only get H0RN37, which just doesn't cut it.

 

Suspect we'll have official lift off in a week then we might get a bunch of Sydney folk together for a spin.

 

Here she is last week ... actually run out of fuel just near place, door slightly open.

 

Adam

[C.A.R.]

Mesh air-filters are a bad idea. Road dust won't be kind to your bores...

Rubber soft mounts for the Carbs - bakelite should only be used for EFI setups.

Get a proper balancer - ATI make the best one's.

Les Collins does a proper motorsport spec elec. dizzy. Don't get talked into any of the MSD junk - poor performance & failure rate is high.

 

[HS30-H]

On Friday James installed the 1" Wilwood master cylinder to get the Mk63's working as they are meant to....

 

I don't understand the 1" master cylinder fitment.

 

MK63s - in both vented disc and solid disc guise - are known to work just fine with stock sized ( 7/8" ) master cylinders. I have used them myself for years. Never had a problem. Nice high and firm pedal, and - with the right brake pads ( I recommend Endless ) - plenty of stopping power.

 

Nissan themselves sold the MK63-20S 4-pot caliper as a 'Sports Option' and race part for many years. First of all they recommended that the rear ( drum ) brake slave cylinders be changed to 13/16" size ( 44100-E7200 and 44101-E7200 ), and then - a couple of years later - they recommended a 3/4" master cylinder ( 46010-E8710 ) be used as well.

 

Nissan's works race and rally cars used the MK63-20S calipers in period. They never used a 1" master cylinder, even when they started fitting the MK63s on the rear as well as the front. I can't help thinking that the 1" master is too big, and that your brake problem was actually due to something else?

[HS30-H]

Rubber soft mounts for the Carbs - bakelite should only be used for EFI setups.

 

Sorry to disagree, but I think the solid phenolic ( heat ) insulators are just fine for the L6. Rubber soft mounts are more trouble than is necessary, especially linkage and balance wise.

 

On some engines their natural harmonics can 'foam' the fuel inside the float bowls of the carbs. That's not the case with the L6, and Nissan themselves sold their Sports Option and Race Option triple carb kits with the solid phenolic spacers / insulators. They also used them on the factory Works race and rally cars without problems. They work just fine. 

[C.A.R.]

Each to their own. I've never had any issues with the soft mounts.

 

I've always used them on my fathers & my race cars with success.

 

[NZeder]

I am with Alan and never use soft mounts on an L6 sure on other engine aka 4 bangers but they are not required for a L6.

 

Edit: Looking at the sport option catelog and Alan is correct Nissan shows different rear cylinders.

[acf321]

Thanks Lurch, and Alan for picking up on those interesting points.

 

Alan, I am not sure what was going on with the brakes. When I first collected the car, the pedal would just drop to the floor, and then in the last centimetre or two they would do everything, so basically completely unpractical for any sort of use and no progression. I bought the brakes off Nzeder a few years back and then had them re-built by Stew Wilkins. At the time, Stew made the point that he could not fit dust covers to the pistons as the lip was missing (i think) but that this would in no way affect the operation of the brakes. James fitted the brakes, and Nat had previously totally rebuilt the whole system with OEM parts, include rear shoes and drums and so on. You could have eaten your dinner off these brakes, and they were installed by some very experienced Datsun chappies. In terms of them not working, we all just scratched our heads, and I (as I have become extremely proficient at since buying this car) just casually reached for my wallet.... again!

 

Seems that nobody actually knows what is wrong with the operation of the brakes, but Mike (NZeder) did refer to an issue that often occurs with a smaller M/C in terms of moving sufficient fluid, to get the operation working properly. James was also of the opinion that this may have been the case too, hence doing this conversion (and yes, I am not over the moon about having a non OEM part in there). One point to make about this issue is that I had the spacers removed, and am running non-vented rotors.... does this mean there is a different distance for the pistons to move, and hence necessitate the need for greater fluid capacity hence 1" MC?

 

Lurch thanks for the tip on that Dizzy from Les, I will follow that up in time, and the ATI balancer too, which I had heard of but forgotten about. As i've always thought with this, getting the car 'right' will now be a matter of getting to know it and see 'what she'll do' so the saying goes. I have some very favourite roads that i've taken the other stuff on, so doing the same for the Hornet will surely tell me what I need to do in time.

 

Thanks for your thoughts here gents, and Alan for the technical details for which I am very grateful.

 

Naturally, i'll give y'all a proper run through when the car is registered.

 

Adam

 

[HS30-H]

Alan, I am not sure what was going on with the brakes. When I first collected the car, the pedal would just drop to the floor, and then in the last centimetre or two they would do everything, so basically completely unpractical for any sort of use and no progression.

 

That doesn't sound right at all, and in fact it doesn't sound caliper-related at all either. My hunch is that it is something to do with the stock M/C not working correctly or indeed a problem with the Master Vac unit.

 

As I said, I've used the MK63 4-pot calipers in both vented disc and solid disc guise, with the stock 7/8" master cylinder, on several of my cars and never had such a problem. The current setup on my KPGC10 is also vented disc MK63s on the front and Nissan Sports Option drums on the rear, and it has a high and hard pedal even with the tiddly stock KPGC10 Master Vac unit and 7/8" master cylinder. Stopping power is good. I can lock the fronts easily if I want, and modulation is easy once the pads are bedded in properly. 

 

On my 432R replica I'm deleting the Master Vac unit, fitting the 432R-type Master Vac delete plate, and sticking with the stock 7/8" master cylinder. Front calipers are MK63-20S with vented discs, with stock drums on the rear. I'm expecting a high and hard ( very hard! ) pedal, but I'm re-drilling the brake pedal to give a different motion ratio just like the 432Rs had. It should take more effort to stop, but I don't expect to have any problems with it. MK63s just don't need that much more fluid movement to work properly than the stock two pot calipers.     

 

One point to make about this issue is that I had the spacers removed, and am running non-vented rotors.... does this mean there is a different distance for the pistons to move, and hence necessitate the need for greater fluid capacity hence 1" MC?

 

There should be no difference between the vented and solid disc versions in this respect. If you think about it, the pistons only move a tiny amount in the caliper and there should be no difference between vented and solid disc type piston movement. That's a red herring.

 

Fitting MK63s shouldn't give you a 'long' pedal. That sounds like something related to the Master Vac's operation, and/or a fault in the stock master cylinder and/or plumbing.

 

Sorry to contradict the people working on your car, but I honestly don't think the 1" Wilwood master cylinder is the answer to this problem.

[chris240]

Looking good !

[Zedman240®]

I'd be checking the rod from the booster to the master length. If it needs to be made longer, that'll explain the long movement before anything happens. If the rod is adjusted to long, brakes will be partially on all the time. You really need to get a vernier and measure 1000 times to get it right. Use the depth measuring side of the vernier to measure the MC etc..

[acf321]

Thanks Gents, I really appreciate all the advise, seriously I do.

 

Just watching the Ladies tennis and thinking: 1) i'll order an ATI balancer, 2) i'll give Les Collins a call about one of those motorsport dizzies, 3) i'll call James to discuss this whole braking debacle, and 3) i'll also ask James about those uber valves he mentioned that make serious HP?

 

Just one more question ...

 

Does anybody know if anybody has made Titanium rods for L series motors?

 

Adam.

 

[C.A.R.]

Carrillo make Ti con rods.

 

Question is: Why do you want them?

[PZG302]

Carrillo.

 

Guzuntite Lurch

[NZeder]

Titanium rods for L series motors?

Is that a period mod 

[acf321]

yes its period ... Titanium has been around forever!

 

having said that, no idea what diff they might make other than slightly sharper throttle response.

[C.A.R.]

Ti has a MUCH shorter 'life span' than steel alloy.

I wouldn't recommend them Adam.

 

If you want sharper throttle response & more revs, look at the valve train. It's more important to get the mass out of there.

[acf321]

yeah good point Lurch, acutally James was telling me he uses a special set of valves that despite their exxy cost "pay for themselves in HP alone". He reckons these specific valves make a noticeable difference. I have modified L28 valves in mine now which James said would be more than sufficient for a fast street motor. If you're reading this Lurch, do you know what the cost of one of Les' fancy Dizzies is per chance?

 

 

[C.A.R.]

No idea on price Adam. You are best off to call him.

I'll PM you his number.

 

Oh & it doesn't matter how much $ you spend on your L24 Adam, I'll still be faster up Old Pac...

[G]

Are you going to tell us about these valves?

[acf321]

Hi G...

 

Would love to tell you about them, but I don't have the info. Call James at MIA Engine Service as he has used them in his race car. When he was building my motor, and since, he just gave me a bunch of options and said; "for this much money you can have this, and for this much more you can have that" and so on. Recently, we discussed his race motor and what was happening there. He mentioned some new valves that he was using that cost a LOT, but are noticeable. I told him that I just wanted the thing going, and then I can do updates in time, such as those that I mentioned, ie dizzy, balancer, rods, valves and so on. Having said all that, when I drove it the other week it frightened me and lots of neighbours and that was all under 4000rpm. Need to get the thing, use it, and then determine what I really need. I do think though that having come as far as I have, a SERIOUSLY tuned L24 is very much within my reach ...

 

Mmmmm decisions decisions.... oh, and a bit more $$$ too of course!

 

Adam

[dat2kman]

Eh eh eh,

Jame's twin stock Hitachi carbed 2.6 litre will leave pretty well all these big bore triple carbed jobbies well in his wake.

[C.A.R.]

All?

Careful Jase...

[acf321]

That IS true and well proven Jase,

 

James told me the HP number once and I literally fell over. James is now SO FAST in his 2.6L Zed that he's moved up from S class and is currently 2nd overall in the outright class, beating everything on the track, including porsches, Camaro's, Mustangs, Monaro's (and everything else) only to be right on the rear bumper (literally if you've seen the video of it) to a stupifyingly fast De Tomaso Pantera.. which I'd say he will very soon be beating. Right you are too, she's running 2.6L and twin hitachi SU's, with totally 100% stock brakes, including rear drums!!!

 

 

[PB260Z]

Oh & it doesn't matter how much $ you spend on your L24 Adam, I'll still be faster up Old Pac...

 

Love the Old Pac, just up the road from me 

[acf321]

Well you better get yer ride up here Lurch ... I can drive the old Pac blindfolded!

 

Jokes aside, I actually contacted the RTA once to make enquiries about setting up a Euro style hill climb event on the Old Pac, aka Euro style events. They never responded!