Gassing myself!

[reverendzed]

Hey guys,

before you ask, yes pics will be up tomorrow! Gave the Zed the maiden voyage today, in the wet and had some serious sideways fun in the huge parking lot at the church even tried a little drifting...nearly had to change my undies and realised I probably don't need to be sideways racing toward a brick wall to get my adrenalin fix!

 

The problem is that when I'm driving the fumes are almost more than I can stand...now having owned a few Zeds I figured that it was a 'hatch' or tail light gasket issue but when I rolled up the window the fumes disappeared?  I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this as all I can think of is that I have an exhaust leak somewhere that with the drivers window down gets sucked straight into the cabin...thoughts.

 

Cheers to all my mates, miss you guys heaps!

Rev.

[Sirpent]

Rev

 

Good to see you on line and hope all is well.

 

At speed, external air pressure is higher and therefore the internal air is actually sucked out, much like cabin depressurisation in a plane, there is an exhaust of the internal air and contents towards the opening.

 

Therefore, the cabin is leaking fumes at some point into the cabin but moreso when this volumetric air change occurs due to an open window.

 

I think one of the fundamental problems with the Zed's are the 1/4 panel external vents, these were designed to allow air pressure dispersion from the inside of a vehicle when the doors were closed swiftly causing and increase in cabin pressure and working against the closure of the door, in modern cars these vents are usually places in the lower section of the quarter panels behind the bar cover and have a louvered trap allowing air out but not back in.

 

Our vents don't have this feature, so at speed they leach cabin air outwards and in turn this is the reason for the vacuum effect in the rear sucking exhaust gases back in.

 

You have a leak in the rear, where from is the question, but the effects of the open window will cause an increase and if a leak is there it will always seem evident in some way due to the 1/4 vents.

 

Cheers

 

John

[luvemfast]

Sorry mate, can't help you.

The later models had no such problems....... Being superior and all 

 

Doesn't Craig tape up the rear hatch of his car before going on big drives?

[Scoota G]

Doesn't Craig tape up the rear hatch of his car before going on big drives?

 

I have seen craig perform this excercise. I had the same problem but after the recondition the problem almost vanished which makes sense, a more efficent engine should mean less toxic fumes out the exhaust and therefore less in the cabin.

[Six_Shooter]

You likely don't have an exhaust leak, well, except for that one at the end of the pipe! lol

 

I know my exhaust is sealed up. No signs of leaks around the head, non at the turbo, nor at the downpipe, and then my exhaust is a solid welded piece right to the tip. I still get this exhaust in the cabin.  :-\ Same as you, I leave the window(s) up and the problem is gone, except I don't have the fresh air I like oh so much from the open window, which is a whole new problem. lol

 

I have tried sealing up every hole I can find in the hatch area, new (and thicker than stock) hatch seal, inspected my tail light gaskstes and seemed ok.

 

I tried leaving the exhaust tip long, like 6" beyond the bumper! This didn't help. I tried adding a BRE style spoiler, because it was suggested that it might help, by changing the air flow over the back of the car, again, no help.

 

I think I might give the vent holes idea a little closer inspection, those are about the only holes I haven't sealed up yet.

 

I need to figure this out before I tear it down for the "big build" in a couple years, because I don't want to be smelling exhaust fumes AT ALL, once I give it the build.

[Zedman240®]

I remember reading about  poor sealing from the area behind the fuel tank under the car not being sealed properly and like John said, with a window open causing a low pressure in the car sucking in air from high pressure outside bringing in all the fumes. I suffer from the same thing Rev so I will be tackling that soon. There are a number of hoses that go from the tank to the interior which if are not sealed properly, will let fumes come in. I've heard a smoke machine on the inside with a vac cleaner on reverse to apply positive pressure in the cabin can show where you have openings. I will try that as I think my zed is like swiss cheese with a few missing grommets!

[Sirpent]

I tried adding a BRE style spoiler, because it was suggested that it might help, by changing the air flow over the back of the car, again, no help.

 

If anything this will only increase the problem as what happens is an even lower pressure pocket is created at the tail area due to air disruption over the spoiler, you end up with a very high vacuum effect so any exhaust gases that might be leaching in through any of the unsealed ares around the hatch will increase.

 

Many will have also noticed that their tail lamps seem to fowl up from carbon deposits directly above the tail pipe area, it may not even be the gasket and an inspection of the rust prone area where the upper locking panel meets the tail lamp panel may show a rust hole, remember it doesn't need much of a hole to allow gas into the cabin considering the gas volume produced in the form of exhaust.

 

Another entry point although unlikely may be the hinge boots, as the hinge assy's sit within the turret reinforcement are open to the cabin, if the boots have perished they could allow the flow of gases even if they seem water tight.

 

Exhaust gases in a well fitted exhaust system therefore could only emanate from the tail, the vacuum pocket created by the rear design of the cars acts as a collector of these gasses, so the entry point is most likely in the rear seal joint area's, but as I mentioned before the culprit here is most likely the 1/4 vents which allow for a continuous loss of cabin air and which in turn creates a vacuum effect drawing through any poor seal points.

 

 

[Cozza]

Could your car be running a bit rich?

 

I know that when my car was running rich due to a high float level in the front carb, my Missus would complain that I smelt like petrol after I came home from a drive. She hasn't complained about that since I have dropped the float level.

 

I do realise the problem of pressure systems and leaks into the cabin but if it's running excessively rich, the problem will be amplified.

 

Just a thought.

 

Mick

[FLEXZED]

Hey guys

 

i have a smoke machine that i use on finding broken sewers if anyone is interested

 

Loui

 

[Sirpent]

Hey guys

 

i have a smoke machine that i use on finding broken sewers if anyone is interested

 

Loui

 

 

Youre a good man Bro,

 

But for the Melbourne boys, red boat flair taped to the rear bumber bar, remove interior rear trims, get a mate to ride shot gun and watch the rear area, light it up and head down the road, should find the source LOL

[silverz]

I believe the area around the petrol tank (gasoline tank for you people in the U.S.!) is worth exploring. I had a lot of problems with fumes in the cab before we took the petrol tank out and installed a new (home made) fuel tank breather.

 

It seems a lot of the fumes were actually from the rotted out and kinked fuel tank breather. Though there are plenty of areas around the tank where exhaust fumes could also get in.

 

At the same time I fitted a new rubber boot on the gearshift and this may also assisted.

 

This was all done prior to me setting off from Townsville to Albury/Wodonga in Jan. Due to the floods I had to drive way inland through central/western Queensland & NSW. It was stinking hot and I had the drivers window down all the way with no more fume issues whatsoever.

 

Regards

Peter

[C.A.R.]

I too have a smoke machine called a 'John'.

He comes round to your garage, lights a cigarette & blows it around your cabin to find your leaks.

 

Then he straightens your hair.

 

HTH.

[chris240]

yeeep, when we went to Thredbo with the zedders , I also tapped up my hatch area. Then we I removed the tape , I stripped my f.5#4*@ !!!  paint.

[Sirpent]

I too have a smoke machine called a 'John'.

He comes round to your garage, lights a cigarette & blows it around your cabin to find your leaks.

 

Then he straightens your hair.

 

HTH.

 

Have to pay that one.

 

LMAO

[Scoota G]

a more efficent engine should mean less toxic fumes out the exhaust and therefore less in the cabin.

 

Or maybe i can just outrun the fumes better!

[sco_aus]

My front spoiler seems to have made a huge difference.  It was really bad when i first got the car, but has been fine since I put a spoiler on the front.  I don't have a rear spoiler though.

[jamo240]

For what it's worth, I have a front spoiler on my car, none at the rear, and the hatch seal has been shagged for years, and I don't think the rubber hatch hinge seals are even there anymore.....BUT, my car has never had issues with fumes in the cabin, windows up or down. Don't know why, but it's never been an issue, so maybe the front spoiler is part of the answer!?

 

Jamo

[lightmaster240z]

You can fix it by driving on right side of the road  . Nice to here you are still a hoon Rev 

[nizm0zed]

You should be able to get mastick or some other type of black tarry bitumous filler tape from an auto parts store over there, That'll be easy to wrap around the tank filler pipes and seal them up permanently.

If you can peel the side badges off easy enough you can plug the holes with a bit of rag for testing purposes and see if that makes a difference to it.

As for the tail light seals, just replace them, even if its just generic foam rubber, should be pretty cheap over there.

I know for a fact MSA dont have the hatch outer seals in stock at the moment, emailed them recently, but they can be replaced with universal rubbers.

You should be able to test that theory with a bit of duct tape over the body gaps.

 

No vids of carpark drifts???

[Quandary]

When I ordered the hatch rubber it came with another strip that I later realised was for the tank. But a better use for is under the hatch along the ridge where the hatch sits. It fits nicely but needed adjusting at the hatch hinges. When the hatch closes I get a nice rubber lining bubble out along the hatch line so no water makes it to the original hatch seal.

 

This pic of Gyra's Z shows it quite nicely. It looks much thinner than the rubber I used (intended for the tank) but its been the best thing I've done to keep fumes and water out.

 

http://www.viczcar.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-3045

[MaygZ]

G'day Rev,

 

how's it hanging?  You bloody ripper!  ken oath we miss ya mug!  (missing the Australian vocab?)

 

I recall a post from a brilliant and good looking bloke on this subject a while back.

 

Ah.  Here is the link .....  http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,9212.msg88973.html#msg88973

 

Hope this helps.

 

Come home soon.  You're son's hair is going nuts without your supervision!!!

 

MaygZ

[Six_Shooter]

LOL, some funny ideas.

 

But driving with the Vents open, also does not work, mine are always open. and have been since I bought the car.