Sirpent "Z"

[PZG302]

John,

 

Here are the two photos I have of the system installed and one of it out of the car. The photo out of the car shows how the pot and pumps sat a little better. The in car shots are a bit unclear.

 

basically I had the pot made to suit and it bolted to the underside of the floor between the diff mount and the fuel tank with the high pressure pump mounted of an existing bolt on the diff mount and the low pressure pot pump just mounted in line between the tank and the pot.

 

This was deemed about the safest spot as it would have to be one almighty hit to do any damage to the swirl pot or pumps and they were fairly well protected from stones and othher road debris as well.

[lightmaster240z]

No prob now back to the tomato plants for me.

[Sirpent]

No prob now back to the tomato plants for me.

 

Watch those Ph levels and make sure the timers are set correctly LMAO

 

 

[Sirpent]

Matt

 

Looking at your pot makes me think that maybe a large air-con reciever dryer would do the trick also, they are rated to some 300 psi so fuel pressure wouldnt be a problem.

 

Im thinking that sinse Im deleting the original fuel tank in favor of the LPG donnut tank sitting in the wheel well that I would have more than enouth options to mount one on the undercarriage in a safe location.

 

Cheers

 

John

[Sirpent]

I honestly have to stop smoking those tomato plant leaves Bruce Leno in Taralgon keeps sending me, and you lot need to tell me when I'm totally off track with some of the SH*T I come up with.

 

I tossed and turned all last night thinking about a surge tank solution, then an epiphany around 1:00am

 

I have space for a surge tank in the middle of the donut tank for crying out loud !

 

So I sat down tonight and drew up this quick cut away of the circuit, now if I'm still way off track, for crying out loud someone slap me, otherwise any learnered comments will also be appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

[nizm0zed]

lol, you bloody mexicans and your tomato plants.....

[PeterAllen]

'Oh what a tangled web we weave when first a new fuel tank we conceive.'

 

John - Is the reason you are going for a surge tank related to baffles, or lack thereof, in the round tank?. You could knock-up a round aluminium tank with baffles and install an in-tank pump for half the work you are contemplating... KISS.

[lightmaster240z]

AR John don't do "KISS" on this project ever

[tbscobraZ]

@ Peter Allen did you just combine Joshua Radin and fuel tank?!!! Absolute gold.

[Sirpent]

'Oh what a tangled web we weave when first a new fuel tank we conceive.'

 

John - Is the reason you are going for a surge tank related to baffles, or lack thereof, in the round tank?. You could knock-up a round aluminium tank with baffles and install an in-tank pump for half the work you are contemplating... KISS.

 

Peter,

 

Your words are always welcome, and is the play on them LOL

 

The capacity of this surge design is 2.44 litres, negates any requirement to build baffles in the existing tank, increases over all capacity to close to 65 litres, appreciate it looks complex but in actual fact is pretty simple, as far as simplification the inductive fuel level sensor is a major KISS item, and the fact that both pumps are outside the tank probably make for a no maintenance solution of the tank long term.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

AR John don't do "KISS" on this project ever

 

AR ???????

 

Bruce cut back on the tomato leafs

[RB30X]

@ Peter Allen did you just combine Joshua Radin and fuel tank?!!! Absolute gold.

 

I thought he was speaking 'Yoda'

[PeterAllen]

@ Peter Allen did you just combine Joshua Radin and fuel tank?!!! Absolute gold.

 

NO, you literary Philistine... if Joshua Radin has used that line then he plagiarised Sir Walter Scott.

 

By coincidence, my daughter saw Joshua Radin at the Camden Theatre in London in September while I was across the road reacquainting myself with warm bitter.

 

 

Sorry John, enough off-topic comment... However, the lack of baffles worries me with that tank, if you drive through a series of left and right-handers (esses) might you not experience something of a tank-slapper? I'm sure some undergraduate engineers on here can do some cals - I'm too old to see the numbers on my sliderule.

[Sirpent]

Hi Pete

 

The surge tank has a single return point to the tank, I'd approximate this to be at the 2 odd litre level, therefore the surge acts as a deterrent to eratic fluid movement in the tank itself, or, as a baffle of sorts.

 

With the low pressure pump feeding this reservoir, I doubt that the surge reservoir would deplete to the point of starvation.

 

Peter, I'm not arguing against what you are saying, more so discussing the pro's and con's and if I'm wrong or youre right then at least we come to some decisive conclusions as to its functionality or improvement 

[RB30X]

Sorry John, enough off-topic comment... However, the lack of baffles worries me with that tank, if you drive through a series of left and right-handers (esses) might you not experience something of a tank-slapper? I'm sure some undergraduate engineers on here can do some cals - I'm too old to see the numbers on my sliderule.

 

Maybe, if you timed the series of left and right turns correctly you could get the fuel to swirl around the doughnut fast enough to create a centrifugal down force.

 

....whats a slide rule

[PeterAllen]

....whats a slide rule

It's in the Drifting regulations!

 

John - Just so we are not at cross purposes, I am referring to the lack of baffles in the main tank, not the surge tank.

[Sirpent]

Understand Peter

 

Sinse this was never destined to be a track car, the reality of dramatic weight shift isnt a concern, however, and I say this with all respect, as the centre of the donut tank will need to be disected so as to accomodate a uniform surge tank, I could insert and weld in 2 baffle plates.

 

 

[nizm0zed]

you could also insert some open cell foam, as used in many alloy fuel cells.

Takes up virtually no room and eliminates almost all the fuel sloshing around.

i would imagine you would probably only need a few small pieces of it, simply to act as 'slosh breaks' within the tank.

 

(im sure slosh brakes isnt a proper term, but it works, and im copyrighting it  )

[Riceburner]

Would it be better to run the surge tank return line out at the very top, looks as it will start returning when 2/3rds full?

 

Maybe a dual pickup into the main pump would be handy.

[Sirpent]

Gareth

 

Think you have a valid point, so revised the return which in actual fact doesn't even need to be a pipe as shown but just a void the size of a $0.50 piece.

 

Cheers

 

John

[PeterAllen]

John - Mine has a filter on the high pressure line shortly after it leaves the pump, it then has a 'T' piece off the filter which has one line running to the rails and one returning the excess fuel. That way you only have to run one line to the motor.

 

I'm sure you have addressed this but you will also need a valve on your vapour line to ensure no fuel runs into the vapour line when the tank is filled or the car is upside down. Likewise you need some valve arrangement on the filler to ensure there is no blowback when it is filled. Both these are available from wreckers.

 

PS. I like Alan's idea of the foam.

[Sirpent]

Peter,

 

Im aware of what you discussed regarding the anti return valves, but the "T" piece after the filter with the single supply line to the fuel rail and the bypass back to the tank has stumped me somewhat if im reading this correctly.

 

Fuel flow past the pump will take the path of least resistance, therefore the pressure requirements of the rail will not be met by a bypass at the "T" junction.

 

Am I reading this all wrong?

[PeterAllen]

The pressure regulator is in the short return line between the filter outlet and the tank.

[RB30X]

Where will the HP pump be? Remember HP pumps don't suck very well. They need head pressure.

[Sirpent]

The pressure regulator is in the short return line between the filter outlet and the tank.

 

OK, that makes some sense now Peter, although it would delete the need for a return line, I find it hard to consider as the regulator would need to be turned down so far to negate some of the pressure for regulating the pressure and flow that it may limit regulating ability, Im probably wrong but would like to hear if my synopsis is incorrect.

 

Where will the HP pump be? Remember HP pumps don't suck very well. They need head pressure.

 

That would be mounted just below the pan on the underside with minimal fuel line feed.

[peter mc]

Hi snake man

mate it will need the return line as you have a reg on your engine that will lift fuel presher under boost , ,

as for the tank why can you not fit the fuel pump in the tank center section and it will double as a surge tank