L28 budget build - Looking for opinions/feedback.

[gav240z]

So I've been thinking about this on and off for a while, since tearing down my L28. I originally had big plans of building a L31 stroker and spending about $15k or so to get over 300HP. However upon reflection I have a lot of money to still spend on HS30 00150 and I'd rather work toward returning it to the road sooner than later and not let the project stagnate because I've sunk too much coin into the motor. My reasoning here is that once it's on the road, a few years down the track I can come back to the motor and do a serious rebuild, by then the car will have had the major expenses paid and a motor rebuild can be done once appropriate money is saved.

 

To start with here is a list of parts I currently have:

 

- 12 L14 rods

- 6 L28 rods w/flat top pistons.

- 6 L24 rods

- LD28 Crank

- L28 Crank

- F54 block (280zx series II?) - will probably require slight over-bore due to frozen piston and oversized pistons.

- N42 Head (missing intake valves), minor crack near #1 spark plug

- E31 Head (complete with A-Grind Camshaft)

- Triple 44 Mikuni carbs (3 K&N filters - no air box)

- Standard 240z Hitachi SUs w/orange airbox - the GeeTar as a friend once called it.

- 2 Electronic Distributors (The regular 280zx style E80 module?) and another Mitsubishi stamped 1 that is meant to be a good unit (it was rebuilt years back - never put into use).

- 71C gearbox (condition not really known)

- R180 open diff (as far as I'm aware, again condition unknown).

- Rusty (surface rust) on HM exhaust / extractors, rest of exhaust looks well used.

    - http://www.hmheaders.com.au/shopexd.asp?id=190

 

So I must have read Alan's thread on his L26 refresh like 6-7 times already.

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,2415.0.html

 

Budget: 5k

 

So after reading Alan's thread I've decided of a budget of 5k, this isn't fixed yet and will be subject to feedback here. However I think that is a solid budget for gaskets, water pump, ARP bolts, thermostats, pistons, rings, camshaft billet or regrind and other balancing, blue printing and port work.

 

Approach

 

So here is what I'm thinking, use N42 head pending outcome of it's condition. Have it professionally ported and cleaned up (refreshed) with new valves installed and transfer missing components from E31 head onto the N42 (if required).

 

Flat top pistons with appropriate rods and crank combination (of which I'm not sure what combo to use here).

 

Use a camshaft grind - perhaps a bit bigger than what Alan used, as I can tolerate a bit of lope at idle and no plan to use Air-Con in my car at this stage.

 

Fit Triple Mikuni's and port match manifold to suit engine head etc..I may need to make a custom airbox - depending on cost or buy a proven box.

 

Use existing electronic ignition (Mitsubishi unit). Disassemble and clean up (from storage).

 

Clean up existing exhaust system and possibly coat with header paint etc..

 

Balance crank, flywheel, rotating assembly, harmonic balancer etc..

 

Where I need help

 

So I need help deciding on what combination of parts will provide good bang for buck. I plan to assemble the motor on my own (or with help) but I want to do it to learn and get the experience. The motor will mostly be street driven, I would like to get it on the track at some point for the odd track day. However it's not a race car. So sustained high RPM isn't what I'm building it for.

 

It would be nice to get over 200HP flywheel with the Triples and good usable low down torque.

 

So with all the L-series builds out there, I suspect there must be a common combination that tends to do the trick. I'm not looking to re-invent the wheel or break new ground here - I'm happy to use a proven formula.

 

Engine Builders

 

So we actually have quite a few options in terms of experienced L-series builders.

 

Peter Mac

Les Collins

Stewart Wilkins

James Flett

Chris Wood

 

I actually don't know who to consult, partly because I'm afraid I'll be convinced to spend more 'while we're doing it' and I'm trying to keep this on a respectable budget.

 

I guess I'll probably have to just man up and make a decision and stick with it here, but just throwing it out there.

 

At the end of the day I'll be happy to just reassemble the motor and not have it blow up on me. If we make more than 200HP I'll be extremely happy. So if you were me and had the current parts list I do, what would you put together and what budget do you think is appropriate?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dat2kman]

None of those builders will give you what your are wanting, at $5k.

If the $$ stretch, say 7-8k take to your local bloke, Flett.

With a bit of nouse, you can assemble a bottom end in your own garage, after farming out the machining work to be done, relative to your piston/rings choice, rods and big end bearing size, and crank mains.

Will a linish do? Or grinding/resizing??

Build in reliability and insurance, ie not overly wild, use ARPp fasteners., a decent balancer.

 

You have enough bits to build three good motors!

 

L14 rods, with 9mm3/8"  new cap bolts, and very short pin height forged pistons, for better rod/stroke ratio, would be nice.

 

[C.A.R.]

5k will be lucky to cover parts & machining, Gav!

[chris240]

If your in Sydney already then go and see James....dont call to discuss, or email him, but good Ol face to face discussion, give him your list of what you already have, and see what he advises. Dont be afraid to ask him for an hourly rate build, a lot of the time it works out better than you think.

[PB260Z]

My reasoning here is that once it's on the road, a few years down the track I can come back to the motor and do a serious rebuild, by then the car will have had the major expenses paid and a motor rebuild can be done once appropriate money is saved.

 

If your plan is to build a really strong motor in a few years why not just get a good running L26 or L28, spend the absolute minimum on it and save your $$ for the serious motor.

After all the motor you are talking about today is only temporary so why invest any more than necessary if it is going to pulled out in a few years time ?

 

Just my 2cents.

 

Cheers

 

PB

[Cozza]

Hey Gav

I recently had a motor built by James. As you know he is a great bloke who will be up front and honest with you right the way through your build. In my experience he will build to your budget and not pressure you into further upgrades.

As always, it goes without saying that you get what you pay for, the more you spend, the fatter and longer texta marks you can leave behind you.

I'm more than happy with the results I got from James and will go back to see him for any future builds.

I recommend you chat with him to work out if you can reach you 200hp goal within budget. Won't be far off from my experience, especially considering you have some good parts as a base.

Even if you choose not to engage him, I am sure he would be willing to give you some solid advice.

 

If you want to chat about my motor build, pm me your number.

 

Cheers

Mick

 

 

[dat2kman]

Watch it boys, the Ginger is on here, reading these posts.

He'll get a big head

[Cozza]

Watch it boys, the Ginger is on here, reading these posts.

He'll get a big head

 

Haha, is Ginger his nickname in the pits Jason?

The above might entice him to make his 4th post. 

Mick

 

[dat2kman]

Haha, is Ginger his nickname in the pits Jason?

The above might entice him to make his 4th post. 

Mick

Nah,,, but when we're standing together in the pits at Eastern Creek, and someone in the distance

yells out,,,,,,,, "Oi Fatso!"

We both turn, and answer,,,,,"yes?"

[gav240z]

None of those builders will give you what your are wanting, at $5k.

If the $$ stretch, say 7-8k take to your local bloke, Flett.

 

5k will be lucky to cover parts & machining, Gav!

 

Well I had to set a budget somewhere, if 5K isn't realistic I'll take that into account. I appreciate the feedback and will take it on board, since I've never been through this process before in this level of detail I wasn't sure what to budget for.

 

If your in Sydney already then go and see James....dont call to discuss, or email him, but good Ol face to face discussion, give him your list of what you already have, and see what he advises. Dont be afraid to ask him for an hourly rate build, a lot of the time it works out better than you think.

 

Yeah I'm all for that, already met James a couple of times and mentioned some of the bits I have, but didn't get a chance to take the conversation any further.

 

If your plan is to build a really strong motor in a few years why not just get a good running L26 or L28, spend the absolute minimum on it and save your $$ for the serious motor.

After all the motor you are talking about today is only temporary so why invest any more than necessary if it is going to pulled out in a few years time ?

 

Just my 2cents.

 

Cheers

 

PB

 

Yeah fair point and I thought about this also, I could for example buy the short block L24 that member G is trying to offload and scew the E31 head on it, rebuild the SU's and for under $2k (or around that) I'd be up and running.

 

However I will more than likely not start on a new motor for a few years and I want this car to be fun until that time comes. I've also got the Triple Mikuni's, L14 rods, LD28 crank just sitting around and I feel I should at least put them to use in something.. the Triples and LD28 crank have already been in storage for close to 10 years, it's time to enjoy them I think. .

 

I also want the experience of building an engine, as we know you gotta start somewhere and once I've done it once, i'll be more confident to do it again (unless it ends in disaster haha).

 

Throwing a running motor in it, feels a bit like cheating my way through it - if that makes any sense at all?

 

 

I'm more than happy with the results I got from James and will go back to see him for any future builds.

I recommend you chat with him to work out if you can reach you 200hp goal within budget. Won't be far off from my experience, especially considering you have some good parts as a base.

Even if you choose not to engage him, I am sure he would be willing to give you some solid advice.

 

If you want to chat about my motor build, pm me your number.

 

Cheers

Mick

 

Hi Mick,

Sounds good, your Z seemed to go alright also on that drive we went on. I have to bet honest even if I had 270HP+ in the Z I don't think I could properly use it yet. I don't think I'm a good enough driver yet to really make full use of that sort of power and I'd really need an LSD in the car to make it somewhat sensible. So sticking with a lower budget and power level seems to make sense at this time.

[PB260Z]

Yeah fair point and I thought about this also, I could for example buy the short block L24 that member G is trying to offload and scew the E31 head on it, rebuild the SU's and for under $2k (or around that) I'd be up and running.

 

However I will more than likely not start on a new motor for a few years and I want this car to be fun until that time comes. I've also got the Triple Mikuni's, L14 rods, LD28 crank just sitting around and I feel I should at least put them to use in something.. the Triples and LD28 crank have already been in storage for close to 10 years, it's time to enjoy them I think. .

 

I also want the experience of building an engine, as we know you gotta start somewhere and once I've done it once, i'll be more confident to do it again (unless it ends in disaster haha).

 

Throwing a running motor in it, feels a bit like cheating my way through it - if that makes any sense at all?

Valid comment. Spend a couple of grand a for few years fun = 

[pauly_adams]

I don't mean to be the black sheep of the family but, if you don't mind the sound why not just go a stock L28 and turbo it, with 10-12 psi of boost you will be very close to your 300hp mark and it will only cost about 2-3k for the whole setup

[luvemfast]

I don't mean to be the black sheep of the family but, if you don't mind the sound why not just go a stock L28 and turbo it, with 10-12 psi of boost you will be very close to your 300hp mark and it will only cost about 2-3k for the whole setup

Why not consider a V8 or an RB swap aswell?

The answer is that some people, myself included, like the fact that we're keeping the original series engines in the cars. With period correct mods, such as triple Mikuni Carby's 

 

If I were you Gav, I'd just chuck in a fresh L28 and enjoy it for a while. Then spend the money on your stroker in the future 

[gav240z]

A turbo would certainly make it easy to extract power and I thought about it, but given it's an early car I think the sound of Triples is the way to go.

 

Can anyone give me an estimate of what an L28 rebuild (keeping everything standard) is likely to cost these days? Assuming I need new pistons and may need to source some valves? Anyone rebuilt a stock L-GATA lately?

[Patch]

I thought I read you wanted a FUN car, how are you going to get that out of a stock L28, save your money get the L24 block put on the triples and have some FUN first before you sink all your money building that L28 that won't give you the same enjoyment.

[dat2kman]

Buy or borrow a flexhone ball tool, whack it in a decent hand drill, and clean up your existing bores. Measure at three points to get an average, and just buy a set of ACL rings.

Wire brush some old stock flat tops, fit rings.

Mic up your mains and big ends, if no scoring, if scoring, just get it linished off, then buy ACL bearings to suit clearances reqd.

 

Wire brush old valves in head, a bit of lap paste and a wooden stick suction cup tool, you've reseated your valves.

Replace any broken bits, whack it all together, in your backyard, New Delhi style, total cost, under $500 for parts, gaskets a bit of crank linishing

 

Ghetto L-Gata!

[d3c0y]

I concur, and put your triples and all that whack on it.

[Scoota G]

You can have my engine for 4.5k. Triples and everything. I can get you stats.

[gav240z]

You can have my engine for 4.5k. Triples and everything. I can get you stats.

 

Thanks mate, feel free to send me specs. However I really want to build an engine for the learning experience.

[grimlynsan]

Buy or borrow a flexhone ball tool, whack it in a decent hand drill, and clean up your existing bores. Measure at three points to get an average, and just buy a set of ACL rings.

Wire brush some old stock flat tops, fit rings.

Mic up your mains and big ends, if no scoring, if scoring, just get it linished off, then buy ACL bearings to suit clearances reqd.

 

Wire brush old valves in head, a bit of lap paste and a wooden stick suction cup tool, you've reseated your valves.

Replace any broken bits, whack it all together, in your backyard, New Delhi style, total cost, under $500 for parts, gaskets a bit of crank linishing

 

Ghetto L-Gata!

 

+1

 

I concur, and put your triples and all that whack on it.

 

+1

 

+ Step by step video diary please :-)

[gav240z]

Ghetto L-Gata!

 

I might just have to get some stickers of that made up. Whilst I'm still deciding what to do I decided to start work on the original steering wheel resto. Will do a write up on that soon.

[dat2kman]

I might just have to get some stickers of that made up. Whilst I'm still deciding what to do I decided to start work on the original steering wheel resto. Will do a write up on that soon.

Ha!

Send me some stickaz when you do !!

[C.A.R.]

[d3c0y]

WBy the time the motors going Mike will have turned white in that gif.

[be-zed]

I agree with those who are looking in Jason's direction . You already seem to have big dollar items in your bucket of goodies and building the engine yourself if self gratifying . It is a good feeling when you turn over the engine for the first time and it comes to life, even if it does require some cranking.If your driving the car as a weekend warrior machine and  as something to get takeaway during the week,then I would just use off the shelf parts. Build it as Jason recommends. But Perhaps use KA24 or Z24 pistons with(L28 CRANK) 133mm rods if it requires boring . You can deck the block 1 mm if you wish but you will need to move chain guides or replace with after market sprocket guides. But that will not be necessary if you use the KA pistons. The other choice you have is to shim the cam towers 1mm and replace the lash pads to suit. This will give you a high torque at low revs engine.This makes a good all rounder 2950cc engine that is reliable. Compression will be around 9.3 and up to 10:1 depending on which pistons you use . You wont win any Nissan Datsun Nationals events with it but it will make them take notice and it won't cost an arm or a leg.