Hide My Sunroof

[Scotty_Rah]

Tonight i removed the sunroof that was fitted to my 260z 2 seater.

 

I wanted to ask for some advice in how to go about making the roof 'normal' again. is it possible to weld in a section? or could i fibreglass the hole up? i'm trying to avoid replacing the the whole roof as i believe its pretty good apart from the hole in it.. see pics

 

what are my options?

 

[locklock]

I have the same issue for my rs 260z. According to my workshop, he says find a donor roof and cut to the exact size and weld it. U need to find a very very good welder. A shoddy job will show in years to come..

I haven't fix it yet, as im restoring another 240z. Let me know when u do it ya.. Would love to see the outcome.

[Retro Z]

Find another complete roof skin and spot weld it from the rain gutters like how its done from factory. It would be quite difficult to just weld a filler piece without warping the roof.

[gav240z]

The best way is a complete roof turret but you can weld them up with a bit of skill.

 

Ledge has described the process before. He advised using an oxy welder as it is more pliable and you can reshape the weld with hammer and dolly.

 

You will need a skim of filler with this method.

 

Rob at Z-Factory can also do it.

 

I'd say it wouldn't hurt to unpick the roof anyway as the frame can be rotten underneath especially near the rear 1/4 lead join area.

 

I still haven't decided what I'll do with mine yet. Hope to get an Oxy welder soon for more practice.

[C.A.R.]

I wouldn't put a welder near it, unless you are going to replace the whole roof panel.

 

IMHO, your options as I see it:

 

Opt 1. Replace the entire roof skin - IF you can find a skin.

 

Opt 2. Make an infill piece (that's been shaped in an wheeling machine to match the compound roof contours) with say a 20mm overlap that can be made into a lip by jogging or swageing a recess into it.

Then urethane (Sikaflex) it into place. A thin skim of filler will finish it off.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Lurch ™

[gav240z]

Lurch - will regard to this statement.

 

I wouldn't put a welder near it, unless you are going to replace the whole roof panel.

 

Are you saying this from a non-professional perspective of tackling this job? As in you wouldn't advise an amateur to attempt this sort of job? Or even as a professional do you think it's a bad idea?

 

I understand the sentiment, regarding avoiding heat. However if you had access to a TIG welder for example wouldn't you be able to exercise a lot of heat control and be able to get a good result? 

[1600dave]

With 30 years of amateur mucking around with restoration work, I would personally be wary of welding up a job like this. 

 

Is it possible ? Yes.

 

Will it be cheap ? No.

 

Will it require a lot of skill ? Yes.

 

Nothing wrong with a "cut'n'shut" of a replacement roof, or a roof skin. Probably won't be anymore expensive than paying a good panel guy to make up the replacement section and weld it in.

 

Or lurches suggestion of using adhesive to fix a replacement section (but you'll still need to get someone to make up the replacement section).

Edited October 13, 2015 by 1600dave

[PZG302]

To do the fill in of the sun roof on my charger, it took 40 hours to do complete with a few robust discussions with the panel beater to get to the standard where I didn't need to put a vynal roof on.

 

As said above by Lurch, Dave and Gav, either do the full roof or fill in and sikaflex

[locklock]

Lurch, sorry for the noob question.. whats the reason of using sikaflex instead of welding?

[1600dave]

No heat. Heat causes distortion.

 

You don't realise how much until you do a bit of welding.

 

I made a rotisserie for my car, welded a "T" shaped bit out of 50mmx50mmx4mm RHS with oxy welding equipment. Simply welding the two pieces together (so running a bead of weld around the end of the 50x50 piece to join it to the centre of the cross piece)  pulled the 4 foot long  cross piece of RHS so that it was bent by 10mm. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by 1600dave

[gav240z]

Yes by far the best most seamless repair is a new roof turret, but they are getting more difficult to source. I am currently in the US for work, I am hoping to meet with a fellow Z-nutter in San Francisco shortly. I will see how feasible it is to start importing panels from the US, apparently there is a swap meet on for Datsun's this coming weekend in SFO so I'll suss it out.

 

Even if a roof turret costs $1000 AU to supply, it is still much cheaper than filling it in. After all why did Nissan make all those 280z's if not for spare parts?

[260DET]

An alternative would be to make a mould from a good roof and then use that to make a composite panel. Bonding it to the metal would of course be crucial but there would be suitable structural adhesives available, get advice on that from the adhesive suppliers eg Dow, Sikaflex, 3M. Carbon fibre plus another fabric to resist abrasion could form the basis for a suitable composite.

 

Filling in sunroofs seems to pop up regularly, there could be a market for composite repair kits.

[PeterAllen]

Like this one!

 

 

NOT FOR SALE. (but the dog is!)

 

Yay... 1000 posts.

Edited October 13, 2015 by PeterAllen

[Scotty_Rah]

Thanks for all the info gents! This gives me a lot to consider. I like the idea of putting a new skin on it. I'm sure it requires a great deal of skill and talent, so I might be best to get a professional to do this for me.

 

Peter - you sure it's not for sale?

[HKSZ]

Yes by far the best most seamless repair is a new roof turret, but they are getting more difficult to source. I am currently in the US for work, I am hoping to meet with a fellow Z-nutter in San Francisco shortly. I will see how feasible it is to start importing panels from the US, apparently there is a swap meet on for Datsun's this coming weekend in SFO so I'll suss it out.

 

Even if a roof turret costs $1000 AU to supply, it is still much cheaper than filling it in. After all why did Nissan make all those 280z's if not for spare parts?

Gav if your in LA I happened to stumble on this Z wrecker when I was walking venice beach!

http://zexpertautorepair.com/

[AK]

Hi Mate

Umm I just welded my in 

I had about the same size hole by the looks, and the same car as well.

My was metal type sunroof that dropped down and slid back.

My sunroof looked pretty good actually but it was source for moisture and rust so it had to go will go in to more detail when I post my full build but in any case I researched every option for sunroof removal and replacement and in the end I decided to use the metal slide back blank to weld in place and fill the hole.

 

I had to make up shelf to boarder the whole perimeter of the hole which I was able to fabricate out of some of the original sunroof parts which braced the metal sunroof blank

 

Once the right angle braces that where aready shaped to the roof arc spot welded into place I had to make sure once the original blank was butted on the newly created shelf and the blank was level against the roof line as perfect as possible, this was process of using different washers to space the metal roof blank up or down used thinner washers for the front and rear sections and thicker washers on the side which had more to do with the thickness of the fold of metal on the under side of the roof blank that was holding some of the strengthening brackets which I used to make the shelf which spot welded to the edges of the roof hole.

 

Bottom line how did work well pretty good for new welder like my self,  the side pieces of the original roof line left and right running against the door line as it turned out are much more prone to heat distortion less area for the heat to disperse into easily (elementary) and if I paid more attention with cooling the side spot welds with a air compressor, and taking twice as much time between spot welds and using a trigger water spray bottle on mist setting to more accurately gauge the heat in the panel (hard to gauge with welding gloves on) I probably would of reduced the war-page I got considerably.

 

I have made some good progress massaging the worst of the heat distortion on the sides out and with some filler it should come pretty good I hope - time will tell.

 

With the extra bracing that made the shelf around the outer edge it helped disperse the heat more than no extra material would of and the end result is a very strong sunroof delete, much stronger than a standard roof line no doubt.

 

But it aint a job if you are not confident and a full roof reskin would be easier and more effective most likely if you can source one but I say if your braced the hole with like I did first and created the shelf being very careful not to distort with heat and then skinned the void with cut out from a similar roof line I think the earlier FORD Laser car have been mentioned as a suitable donor with 20mm overlap and used correct sikoflex body panel glue/silicon I think this could work out better less chance of distortion and once the glue is dry 100% skim it and your done - pretty quick and cheaper with less distortion I would think.

 

But I have not tried this but I think it could be the best route as long as your roof is not to rusty at the roof / body joins.

 

Just my 10 cents

AK

[gilltech]

The agony of 'delete the sunroof hole at all costs' continues. But fair enough.

Whatever method is used it's important to absolutely minimize the amount of filler used, as the roof cops all that sun heat, & there's the risk you'll find yourself having to repaint the roof all over again down the track if or when the filler fails. Mind you, it's not that big an area.

It's always good I think to try & keep as much of the original metal of a car at restoration time, so I'd lean towards filling in the hole too - subject to finding someone with the required wheeling & welding skills - rather than trying to source a whole replacement roof panel which is getting harder & harder to do anyway even in the USA.

 

I won't know which way to jump when it finally comes time to restore my 2-seat, I find the car's black interior far less claustrophobic with the sunroof above.

[gav240z]

The agony of 'delete the sunroof hole at all costs' continues. But fair enough.

Whatever method is used it's important to absolutely minimize the amount of filler used, as the roof cops all that sun heat, & there's the risk you'll find yourself having to repaint the roof all over again down the track if or when the filler fails. Mind you, it's not that big an area.

It's always good I think to try & keep as much of the original metal of a car at restoration time, so I'd lean towards filling in the hole too - subject to finding someone with the required wheeling & welding skills - rather than trying to source a whole replacement roof panel which is getting harder & harder to do anyway even in the USA.

 

I won't know which way to jump when it finally comes time to restore my 2-seat, I find the car's black interior far less claustrophobic with the sunroof above.

 

I have thought about the same thing, since the roof on #150 is quite good apart from the damn hole put in it! However I am also thinking it's not such a bad idea to unpick it anyway because they tend to get rusty around the roof gutters and if there is any structural rust underneath the skin you can take care of it. Plus KBS rust seal it or treat the area to prevent further damage in future. Of course I could still repair the original turret, plug the hole and then put the original skin back on, but I think there is some merit in removing the turret anyway.

 

Roof skin's can be sourced from the US it's just shipping it that is expensive.

 

I wanted to cry when in SFO and I was told you can get early S30Z vented rear hatches all day long for $100 USD.

[Groundhog]

Bye bye rusty old roof courtesy of Webasto!.
I should have trusted my instincts when I bought the car and the carpet smelled musty.
Being repaired by a panel shop old school panel beater as I had one shot at getting the roof repairs right, and I didnt trust myself for this.
Still, I'm happy with the repair progress so far as it allowed for rust prevention underneath and the work is happening fast.

 

A couple of work in progress photos.

The donor roof. I only noticed once it had been unpicked and removed that the rear hatch hinges had been repaired previously.

 

 

Note the bog and filler in the top corner.

 

The donor roof needed repairs here also so it looks bad atm. Will be tidied up some more.

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2016 by Groundhog