Let's start a car club - discuss

[dat2kman]

In Vic, you guys have got an all encompassing setup with NDSOC, it has a number of other sub clubs under its umbrella, it works well.

Strong numbers, funds to support and promote events, but, at same time there are still Vic based Nissan Datsun clubs that will still go it alone.

 

In NSW and Qld, the situation is more a case of the latter, ie individual model based groups forming a club, most without CAMS affiliation, or access to good discount rates etc, and with membership numbers quite low.

Some are now not even issuing a magazine, or if they do, it is quite irregular.

 

You also have the "modern" boys, the "old"boys, the "performance" boys, and the "dirt" boys.

Would it not be better, for a greater strength in numbers thing, to form State emcompassing multi model clubs?

 

NDSOC is doing this already, but nothing elsewhere.

It has been tried, but the politics of "mines bigger/better/older/newer etc than yours" just gets in the bloody way.

 

The concept proposed by OP ie, as I see it, is more a facility to access services, recieve help and guidance, maybe be run without a magazine, but via internet/email outs etc, and run at a lower annual fee basis.

It is not going to please everybody, but the aim, maybe, to embrace as many owners of various model Datsun/Nissan's as possible?

 

Here in Qld alone the separete mobs are, Early Datsun Club, Datsun Sports Owners Assoc, Qld Performance Datsun Club, Z Car Club, Skyline Branch of Qld,  added in there are various modern Nissan groups of loose nature.

 

A "Superclub"  emcompassing all would be ridiculous, strong, political, but it'd never work.

See thete is already a lot of choice out there!

 

A lesser number of clubs, with higher member number base gives strength in many areas

 

I am a member of the Historic Racing Club of Qld, some 700 members, not all active, but a strong club with very goid representation in the historic disciplines. HSRCA and VHRR ( NSW and Vic) are the counterparts.

These are not marque, model or vehicle age soecific, more an interest and social based.

[be-zed]

interesting thread this one.

I see all points of view having formed a Z club in QLD . filled all committee positions at one time or another and been a member of this forum for 4 years. But I feel not all argument's have been put forward at this time as I have heard all these arguements and more before. If the perpose of a club is for legal reasons only then this forum should not be pulled into this argument. If you plan to form a club to meet members needs in VIC .Then I wish you luck and success for your venture.

Alan ,the QLD Club has been electronic newsletter for years now. Its getting an editor to do the job that is the problem . The club to the best of my knowledge did not ask the membership if they wanted hard copy or email . But if they want hard copy they may have to pay for it, but Iam not sure on this. The cost for email is editors time only

[MaygZ]

I'm not into one weekday a month meeting in a pub to hear this and that be ratified.  I would rather spend a weekend day a month driving to a nice location and enjoying our cars and our company.  A car club doesn't have to be about formal meetings, votes and empire building.  Just because that's how they have been done for decades, doesn't mean that's how they have to done.

 

How can you expect Gen Ynot and Gen Now to flock to a group of baby boomers or Gen X discussing and voting on whether there should be jam or marmalade on the scones and the annual high tea?

 

I'm not wanting an 'Owners' club, I want a 'Drivers' club.  See the Feral link in the first post if you don't know the difference.

 

If you want a magazine, buy a subscription.  This forum is better than any car club magazine I've seen; and it's updated daily (if not hourly or minutely) not monthly.  You can read it on the PC, the laptop, the tablet or the phone (if your eyesight is better than mine).  If you really want to walk out to the letterbox each month and get a magazine ......

 

Like it or not, we are already members of a great Z club.  Right here.  We don't need to vote on who becomes the next moderator, no-one's even thinking of booting Gav from President (well they shouldn't be) and we're all pretty happy, yes?  All I'm talking about is taking it to the next level.

 

I too have been on a car club committee (back in the 80's).  It had near 1000 members, but most joined to get a discount on their insurance.  Did we care?  No, they paid their fees and asked for nothing in return.  they gave us money and cost us nothing (except a magazine they probably didn't read).  We had a track day a month (either one of our own or MSCA) and a social event 3 times a year.  The committee bitched and argued because the young members were 'Drivers' and the older members were 'Owners'.  The young members wanted to drive their cars and then have active and fun social events.  The older members wanted to be seen driving their cars and have $300 lunches at Domain Chandon!

 

I know how much work is involved in being on a car club committee; or at least how much time was wasted and energy misspent.  I've seen first hand the divisive methods used to get onto a committee.  And I've seen what happens to a person who joins a committee to make a change butting their head against a wall.  I've seen a new president take a wealthy 'Drivers' club a send it into massive debt that had it not been for the insurance company scheme would probably not recovered.

 

I didn't want to join a club and then try to change it to something I wanted.  That is what has lead me down this path.  I've done my own research and I've spoken with people who have started clubs using this method, with authorities that govern the use of our vehicles.  I've got my powder dry.  ( I will confess that I don't know much about Incorporation other than its purpose)

 

What I don't know is who would like to form the founding fathers (or mothers) of a new club and what people find most important about a car club.

 

I'm not planning on starting another car club like the others.  I'm planning on starting a car club that is modern, that follows the Law of today (not the ways of the past), that encourages participation rather than demands it, that is affordable rather than self developing.

 

I made a mistake early on by mentioning another car club.  That was a mistake and if I have caused any offence, I apologize.  I mentioned it simply as a price comparison that many would relate too, it was not to suggest that the club doesn't provide value for money.  It is one of the cheaper clubs to join.

Alfa Romeo is $80

Jag is $180

Mini is $70 (doesn't supply a letter for club plates and requires a RWC)

Lotus is $90 (they require a RWC also and they process your Vic Roads application?)

Austin Healy is $120

Lions pride (holden) is $45 (you have to serve a time period - at committee discretion - before you can get club plates!)

 

 

 

[MaygZ]

Alan - you have made a mistake.  One of earth shattering consequences.  I'm not Sheldon.  The other Simon is Sheldon.  Lets move on. 

 

If your model for the CPS allows mods without the "insurance"of a RWC (as this is cheap and easy) you may be exposing the "club" to an unacceptable risk - including the committee who signed off the issue of the permit plate .  That is why the club is incorporated.

 

I feel the need to point out that my 240, whilst not finished - will be powered by a very tame L series, have coil overs and Hilux/R31 brakes.  Nothing outside the norm, so this journey is not about finding myself a loophole to get through.

 

No I don't think getting club plates is hard.  It is just a hell of a lot easier than many of the car clubs would have you believe.  They have waiting periods, qualifications, RWC requirements and some even imply they have "like the cut of your jib" requirements.  None of these are required by legislation.  They are about empire building and ar$e covering.  I'm not a fan of either activity.

 

You have to ask yourself that if you have to go to all that trouble you may as well pay the extra $3-400 and get normal rego.

 

Be-Zed, this is day one of the debate.  Give us a few days to get all the arguments  put forward.  Have you got any good ones we haven't heard yet?  I don't understand what you mean by: If the perpose of a club is for legal reasons only then this forum should not be pulled into this argument.   In the words of a famous (or infamous) Queenslander, "Please explain."

 

Jason,

 

You also have the "modern" boys, the "old"boys, the "performance" boys, and the "dirt" boys.

Would it not be better, for a greater strength in numbers thing, to form State encompassing multi model clubs?  No.  I think that this is the problem with many clubs.  They agree they want to go for a drive.  The MB want to drive to Sth Yarra, the OB want to go via the Boulevard for some fun, the PB want to go along the freeway to see how fast they can go and the DB keep wanting to pull off onto the bike path to get well .. dirty.  It all appears to be a good drive to all, but none of them enjoyed it.

 

I think you answer your own question here:  NDSOC is doing this already, but nothing elsewhere.

It has been tried, but the politics of "mines bigger/better/older/newer etc than yours" just gets in the bloody way.

[Retro Z]

MaygZ im with you 100%. I've had issues just joining as a member to NDSOC as i was 'shunned' on a few occasions and was not made welcome when i attended a meeting in which to join... i think due to my age (25) . And no i was not after just a club permit, in fact my car is nowhere near finished.

 

MaygZ i reckon your idea is brilliant as i know several 'younger' (20-35yr olds) Z owners..many who are on this forum, that were considering starting a similar thing in order to focus more on driving, cars, and having fun instead of the politics, boring stuff and general discrimation towards the younger blokes.

 

As for the fee's i'd be more than happy paying 3 times the amount if it meant more things like cruising, socialising rather than formal meetings in a bar..and im sure my friends would too.

 

I was formerly from toymods/ae86 driving club, and Skylines Australia and all were much more diverse and approachable then whats on offer for Datsun enthusiasts.

 

 

[260Coupe]

 

 

As I have stated I support the idea of a new club and wish you luck however whilst I do not push anyone to join the NDSOC ....the club you describe already exists here in Vic  and that you may be trying to re-invent the wheel.

 

 

Al.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sirpent]

Simon

I commend you for your initiative, I believe that it is high time that this haggle of misfits and enthusiasts aspire to more than just web based interaction, we are not a social network, the basis of this forum was to draw together owners and enthusiasts alike, and I’m sure that this was the initial intention Gavin had.

 

Before you ask, yes I did read “The Feral Driving Club” ethos, Do I agree?, Not in its entirety, to be honest the writings are based on the mutual thoughts and visions of a small group, and cannot be transposed across the vast numbers represented on this forum.

 

I state this based on actual experience which I will elaborate on later, I do believe that there is merit in the reasoning to become an incorporated club and the obvious beneficiary outcomes of doing so, however the views discussed regarding the detrition of such clubs away from the founding core principles on which such a club was formed in the first instance to me are to say the least stereotyped.

 

The executive structure is flawed, does not allow for cessation or succession, is geared and structured to negate what the writer envisages in other clubs he had been a part of and creates an almost authoritarian hierarchy designed to control and comply.

 

If you wish to create a club which in essence will alienate a vast majority of passionate members on this forum and create a divide which will ultimately result in a breakaway group viewed as “The Establishment” a power upon themselves, then “The Ferals” model will do just fine.

 

There needs to be a number of core principles put in place with structural mechanisms capable of upholding “The Why” this forum was created, while permanently aligning the physical body (read club) to it.

 

This forum has provided the vehicle and glue to bring so many together, many come and go, however many such as you Simon, myself, my brother Loui and countless others are relative new comers yet here we now are contributing like the founding fathers of some new democracy to take it and aspire to something more substantial.

 

My father was a founding member of a small local migrant football (soccer) club here in Melbourne in the 1950’s, a couple of migrants who decided they wanted to play a social game on the weekends, that club went on to produce the most capped Australian players this country has ever seen, just to name a few such as Viduka, Tiato, Simunic, Marth, Horvat, Davidson, Markovski, and a small statured striker named Billy Vojtek who was the player that actually set up and scored the goal that took Australia to the 74 world cup, that team became the Melbourne Knights and I spent 10 years between 1992 and 2002 as Secretary, Treasurer, CEO and finally as a National Soccer League Commissioner.

 

I developed the entire financial modelling for Melbourne Victories application to enter the “A” League based on that experience. 

 

What the founding fathers did in those early days was to create a constitution that protected it from what is discussed in “The Ferals” doctrine, those principles protected the club from bureaucracy and insured its longevity and focus on the core values and aspirations, those simple immigrants created an Australian football legacy, not bad for a bunch of backward wogs, and yes I can say that because I’m the son of one.

 

I digress, back to what those principles and supporting structures may entail in a future “Australian “Z” Club”

 

The Executive.

 

Should constitute an uneven number of representatives, Chair (Votes only due to an impasse), President, Secretary, Treasurer, Members Representative, these are the voting members, the Chair acts as a constitutional representative and can cast a defining vote if required.

 

Continuity of the executive is imperative and rotation of its members should not take place annually, rather no more than 50% of the executive can rotate out or in during any one term, if you wish to create an incorporated body you will still need to comply with rules and regulations like it or lump it, that includes regular meetings, minutes, AGM etc etc etc.

 

Membership – Foundation and general members

 

Even the current forum relies on regular donations, this should not be any different, and to kick start the kitty, most clubs create a foundation membership, this may be $200.00 per member and subsequent general membership fees which may be $50.00, usually these memberships are limited to the first 200 applicants and could in this instance raise $40,000 immediately.

Past this point, foundation memberships are available based on certain criteria such as contribution to the club/forum, nomination and finally acceptance by the executive, remember membership is a privilege, and these members do have voting rights

 

General membership, open to all, and obviously gain access to club resources, knowledge, events etc etc etc, however these general members do not carry voting rights.

Assets and funds, a proportion of the annual membership income should go to fully launch a comprehensive new web platform and support its ongoing cost, we need to move this forum into the 22nd century and take the fiscal burden off the few.

 

Constitution

 

This is the all-important one and one of the reasons for having a foundation membership with full voting rights, if written correctly, the concerns raised by “The Ferals” shouldn’t eventuate, a constitution written correctly cannot be amended without a vote to do so exceeding 90% of the foundation membership, therefore protecting the inalienable rights of all.

 

I know there will be disagreement on almost every point I have raised, but this is a democracy, and without strong opposing views democracy cannot and will not flourish, as J.F.K. said,

 

“We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all”

 

“Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country”

 

Cheers

 

John

 

[peter mc]

many years ago when i got in to the datsun  i went to the ndsoc and never felt that they were hard to get along with , and I'm out there lol i went there with a fj20 t with 360kw in a zed and no one gave me a hard time ,  never met any nasty scary people lol , still friends with many from the first day i join up ,  do you self a faver go along to some events and drive days ,

[MaygZ]

Thanks John.  You certainly had your thesaurical fingers on tonight.

 

I'll try to address you points as you raised them.

 

The executive structure is flawed, does not allow for cessation or succession,  Yes it is.  We have to work on that.

 

Yes, the writer does create an almost authoritarian hierarchy designed to control and comply.  It was his baby, born of 4 or 5 fathers and there is now doubt that those father control every part of their child's life.  The many uncles can visit and stay as long as they treat the child in the same way the father does.

 

I think you doomsday look at alienation and "the Establishment" is a little far fetched.  It is important to remember, it is my plan the the forum not become the club and the club not become the forum.  They will never be the one thing.  When Gav awakes from his northern slumber (and I pray he does soon as I haven't yet discussed this with him) I am hoping that he will allow our club to communicate via his forum.  Hopefully he joins the club as well.

 

It is for this reason that I want to keep the club's financials small and simple.  I don't want to be running events that are paid for by the club and where forum members feel that they are not welcome.  I'm not wanting a 'locked' Club members only section of the forum.  I don't want to create any division within the forum (other than between the mighty Victorians and those that eat black birds  )

 

Your Dad and his wog mates did a great job!

 

You did a great job too!

 

The Executive:  I completely understand you view, but it differs greatly from my vision.  I want to avoid all the bureaucracy not embrace it even at executive level.  We do need to develop a succession plan/policy.

 

Membership:  Foundation Membership - NO.  I'm looking at building a club that will have 40-50 members, I don't want to take over the RACV or the world.  We don't need $40K.  We don't want $40K or the many problems it brings.  I view two levels of membership: Full member (the executive) and Associate Membership (everyone else).  To qualify to join the club a person must have a strong interest in Zeds (maybe that will be tightened to own or access to a Zed. (What about Z31's? I hear you ask    )

 

Constitution: I'm research constitutions.  Both the complex and convoluted and the simple 'Club Rules' format.  I'm sure you know in which way I'm leaning.  There are requirements both from Vic Roads and from Consumer Affairs that have to be met and these must be addressed in some form of constitution.

 

I agree with JFK, but he did get shot, so it's fair to suggest that not everyone did agree with him.

[C.A.R.]

[MaygZ]

I don't want this thread to be anything other than a discussion about forming a Zed club.

 

I don't want it to become a platform to sledge another club.  I'm sorry I mentioned another club in the first place and I apologize again.

 

Nor do I want it to become a recruiting platform for any other car club.

 

Please stay on subject and value add to the discussion.

 

LURCH!!!

That is not a satisfactory response from you.  You have an opinion and input.  Add it.  Don't just sit on the fence.

[Sirpent]

 

LURCH!!!

That is not a satisfactory response from you.  You have an opinion and input.  Add it.  Don't just sit on the fence.

 

Here Here !

 

And Simon, all's good although I think you should re-read some of my points,

 

"I think you doomsday look at alienation and "the Establishment" is a little far fetched"

 

Simon, reality is that will most probably be the outcome.

 

"It is important to remember, it is my plan the the forum not become the club and the club not become the forum.  They will never be the one thing"

 

They are and the simple fact that you are using it to convey your vision underpins its importance and a need to support it as the loud speaker to the outside world and place to discuss visions and directions of a physical entity such as a club.

 

" I don't want to take over the RACV or the world.  We don't need $40K.  We don't want $40K or the many problems it brings"

 

Wouldnt it be nice if we could have some basic equipment to float amongst the membership, funds to hold a BBQ for ALL members and make it a family day, although Gordo does a fantastic job, and have a real awards day and concourse over the course of a weekend, and each year donate to a charity ?

 

Simon, Im not pitching for a fight, you asked for input and views, these are mine.

 

Your a good man, with the right intentions, I support them, but the execution is a sticking point.

 

 

[MaygZ]

John,

 

I'm happy to read and ponder your thoughts.  I'm not looking on it as a fight.  Please remember that this discussion is less than a day old.  There should be sticking points.

 

I don't agree with your argument regarding the forum.  If I put an add in the paper, the club doesn't the paper and the paper .... I do agree that it is not just important, but is crutial to the development, growth and operation of any club.  I hope, with Gav's permission, to have the club use the forum as the main form of communication. 

 

I understand the importance and benefits of having money.  But I'm told that having money causes problems of their own (hope one day to have those problems), but I would rather charge $5 a car for a concourse and have non-club members welcome than have it free to members and forumers feel unwelcome.  I would rather have a BBQ at a place like Gordo's (or mine) and have $5 entry so all could come than create an us/them atmosphere.  I would be very happy to hear views on this point.

 

You speak of vast numbers.  How many people do you think will join this club?  I'm thinking 30, maybe 40 tops.  How many people would turn up to a Christmas BBQ?  I'm just guessing, maybe 26 cars and 68 people?

[Sirpent]

The old man and his mates thought they would play a social game on weekends and maybe get 80 family members turn up to make fun of them.

 

I stood at 4 grand finals with in excess of 30,000 people watch the future teams, my old man was long gone but damn what a legacy and to think from such small beginnings such greatness spawned.

 

I wont be posting anymore, I will support your endeavours no matter what, but you still need the concensus of many to get this up.

 

Cheers

 

John

[be-zed]

I haven't seen anyone so passionate about starting a car  club as you are for many years now.

But what I was referring to is that each state has different club plate laws and how they can be used.If your trying to start a club using the forum to over come these requirements and possibility CAMS membership you will find it very differcult to bundle it all together and have it work.I will give you an example of how QLD works:The weekend just gone was our Christmas get together and cruze .On average it is the only organised event the forum does for its members in QLD each year. Someone has to work out a course go over it at least twice ,find a venue ,make sure there room to park , post all information work out times do bookings make sure it not expensive and pray everyone will be happy with it. Some will show up at the start with no idea where to go and will need to be provide with information in hard copy.You get the picture.

But if you have club plates in QLD you have to belong to a INC club and only attend events organised by an INC club. The Forum is not a INC club and as such any one with club plates attending a forum organised event is technicality breaking the law. I can except an repremand from the ZCCQ over this. But I had a great day and it would be worth it . If you plan to form a Club separate it from the forum , it will be easier on everone and not have conflict with other state clubs or laws of the other states.

Z Car Club Vic Inc sounds good

[saxon]

I do not want club plates, but would join a club which was an extention of this website in a heartbeat.

 

I have nothing against NDSOC, I was actually considering joining and Alan was nice enough to provide me plenty of information, but I went to their show and shine in docklands and all of them in the tent had white hair. Now I want to be clear I have absolutely no issue getting along with people older than myself, but the demographic just seemed so far skewed away from me that I think I'd have a hard time fitting in. There also seems to be a lot of emphasis on tracking (which I don't do) and also on the classic look, didn't see any wild modifications, not even flares on a car (I'm a hybridz kind of guy).

 

I like the way VicZcar has such a wide range of personalities and demographics, and also embraces different tastes, there's really a lot of variety. Also though there is a big track community, I don't feel like I have to race to fit in.

 

However having said that, I also don't underestimate the level of work and finances required to run a club and put on good events, and being realistic it probably wouldn't be able to happen.

 

What would really be great is if NDSOC were more proactive in attracting the membership base on here to be a part of their club, get the 25-35 guys in, make the plates easy to get, and then we could have a club to join, and their club won't die out in 20 years when they all kick the bucket.

[Mr Camouflage]

FYI WA readers, we already have a 240/260Z club (registered, cams affiliated, etc) if anyone in WA wants more info about the club: www.wazregister.com

[gav240z]

Hey guys,

I was at a Christmas BBQ for work today so only got to review these posts now, I'm actually in the Southern Hemisphere right now (South Africa) but the 1 thing I want to understand here is what is the main drive or purpose behind creating an 'official club'?

 

What needs are not able to be addressed with the current operation of the forum? Is it the CH plates? Drive Days? Money in the kitty? Or something deeper?

 

I have a lot of views and ideas on many of the things mentioned in this thread but it would certainly take me a long time to convey them all right now. So I think it's best to answer the above question to get a better understanding of the motivation behind forming such a club?

 

There are times that I wish I was back in Australia to really help move things forward with Auszcar but at the same time I figure there is no rush and we have been chugging along fine since 2004.

[260Coupe]

"What would really be great is if NDSOC were more proactive in attracting the membership base on here to be a part of their club, get the 25-35 guys in, make the plates easy to get, and then we could have a club to join, and their club won't die out in 20 years when they all kick the bucket."

 

Interesting observation- I'm glad I was of some help but you seem to have made your mind up after one brief encounter

The average age of the NDSOC membership is probably mid thirties............the white hair brigade your spotted was the Prince Skyline "Mafioso".......a bunch of great "old blokes" who love their cars. The Prince register affiliated with the NDSOC back in '95 ,and that saved them from extinction and gave them access to many great events. I'll get the old blokes to dye their hair !  I suggested a Vic Z affilition some years ago and was shouted down by a few.........so  I gave up .

 

We have many younger members and I have been actively encouraging those on this forum to join in ..........like any club you only get out what you put in ............and some who have only attended one meeting and go away with the impression that we are hard to get along with or we don't show them enough attention.  This is certainly not intentional and often not the case...........we all get caught up talking to people we have known for years and often the newby may feel left out if they are not pro active and make them selves known they may be left out.

I joined the NDSOC nearly 25 years ago and it took me a few meetings to get to know everyone and find my "place"within the club.................you cannot expect this to occur in one brief encounter.

 

There seems to be a few who are quite negative towards the NDSOC however they seem to be the ones who have never been a member and given it a chance or those who turn up to one meeting and expect all the attention to be on them from the moment they walk in the door..(the  "all about me "syndrome) .....again you only get back what you put in to any club.

 

As to the öldies on the committee............that is purely because we cannot get any young members to volunteer their time .........so it is always left to the old blokes.

I think Peter Mc, Simon Ray, Dimitri, Ash Mc. and many others can attest to how great the club is ..........but they have put the time in. (Simon, Dimitri and Ash also have permit plates and they can confirm how easy the process was.............we do not make it intentional hard to get a permit plate)

 

Hope to see you at a meeting/event

 

Alan

 

 

 

 

[620Z]

Ha Ha Ha

Simon I love your enthusiasm. I know you have good intentions but I hate to say it you are probably flogging a dead horse.

I think you are wanting to start the Club for partly the wrong reasons. The reality is that we have a Club now and all is working fine. We are financial with cash in the bank for activities if we want to use it.

If you want CH plates cheap and easy to get, then don't get them from NDSOC. It's that simple. Wanting CH plates is no reason to set up a full blown Club.

The reality is Auszcar does not have enough serious Zed car members. Most of them a dabblers. The main event each year is our BBQ. We struggle to even get 5 Zed cars on a drive day. So where are all the Zed boys from the BBQ (26 Zeds) on those drive days? I don't know but they aren't enthusiastuc enough to start and run a Club. If we had a hard core group of 15-20 memebers I would say yeah go for it. I would be the first wanting to help set our selves up. But the reality is Zed car boys are spread accross other Clubs and only keen on getting their cars out a few times a year. That is not enough to get a full blown Club up and running.

 

Simon may I suggest you organise a Club meeting and book the Jag rooms to have an open discussion on this Club thing. We can all thrash it out over some Pizza and drink. As usual the Club will cover the cost of the meeting as it has in the past. We are due for one anyway and best of all the meetings contrary to dishonest rumours on here cost bugger all to put on.

That's me 20cents worth.

 

As for Alan Fields you are so full of BS in regards to the NDSOC and it's past finances etc. I can only laugh. So much to say but I really can't be bothered! Really keep your NDSOC self promotional comments to your site at your Club and we will stick to ours.

[luvemfast]

Please.

No more NDSOC bashing!

If you're not a member. Keep your opinions to yourself.

Just bear in mind. This forum is not actually a club.

It's a place where like minded people discuss what they do with their Z's and what they do in their clubs.

There is room in my life for both. I'd like to think that is the case for many others.

[260Coupe]

Thanks Simon - always a voice of reason

[1600dave]

I thought I'd throw my 2c in as a non-z-owing (anyone got a good cheap one for sale  ), non-victorian. I'm also a member of 4 car clubs, ranging from a local club to one in another state - one for the social side of things, one for the motorsport, one for local activities I can get involved in without a 2-3 hour drive, and one for its very specific single-model focus. The old adage of "you can't please all the poeple all the time" applies firmly, I accept that and "cherry pick" the appropriate bits I like from each club.

 

I guess, firstly, the question that needs to be asked is - what are the aims of the proposed club ? And by aims, I don't mean a list of benefits that it could provide, but the core aim / aims of the club. Is it aimed at getting club plates cheaply / easily ? Is it aimed at Social events ? Motorsport events ?

 

It is all well and good to say "We can do better than the NDSOC" (and when it comes down to it, that seems to be what this is about - there is already a club, you want another one so I'd say its a fair assumption). What differentiates your new club from the incumbent club ? One area of contention seems to be the availability of cllub plates. From what I can see, NDSOC offers these as a benefit available to members who abide by / participate in the other activities the club offers. Entirely their perogative to enforce this, as it is your perogative to offer cheap / easy access to club plates through the new club. My only observation here would be to be prepared for the type of member you may attract (and I'm generalising here, apologies to those that don't fit the mold) - the type that will download the membership form, pay their money, get their club plates and not be seen again till next year to repeat the process.

 

The other reason I thought I'd post is that I was (still am, actually) a member of a club that was formed as a one-marque club (and no, its not a Datsun club). It had a good motorsport focus as well, and welcomed non-marque owners as associate members so they could take advantage of the motorsport offerings. Some marque owners objected to this, and split from the original club, forming their own "marque-only" club. The split wasn't beneficial to either club (was in fact exactly the opposite).

 

Here in NSW, we have a number of smaller Datsun clubs. Three immediately spring to mind, one more general (but seems to attract one type of member) and two much more specific single model-based clubs. Do we benefit from this, or would one over-arching club (ie NDSOC) serve everyone's interests better due to better financial position, ability to offer more (and more specific) events, etc ? Jury is still out on that one as far as I'm concerned. I'm not convinced that a much larger, combined club wouldn't offer more to members by being able to offer, say, 4 cruises, 4 motorsport events, 4 nights at the drags, etc per year and allowing members to attend what they like. A smaller club may only be able to offer1 event of each type per year due to financial / organisational constraints, leaving me (who is more interested in motorsport) only one event per year I woud want to attend as opposed to the 4 motorsport events a large club could put on.

 

 

As to your list of benefits, allow me to play "Devil's advocate". Again, nothing personal, just observations.

 

It prevents the "anal bureaucrat" from building a self serving empire as I have seen happen in other clubs. - I don't see that the leadership / committe / whatever model proposed is any different ? You still have half a dozen or so people in charge, who can either work for the benefit of the club, or to build their own empire. This is a "personality" thing rather than an "organisational" thing.

 

Cheaper club membership - as mentioned elsewhere, anything under $100 is pocket money anyway. I'd pay $100 to be a member of a club I like rather than $10 to a different club because its "cheap"

 

No need for RWC or only a very occasional need for engineering reports (if the build is way out there) in order to get club plates.  Hmm, slippery slope there. I tend to agree with the thoughts echoed above that club plates be treated as a precious gift from the authorities that need to be carefully guarded lest they be taken away again. Realistically, apart from keeping a small group of car enthusiasts happy, what does the scheme accomplish for the govt ? Loses them rego fees, takes away control over modified vehicles, etc Sometimes I'm surprised the scheme exists at all.

 

No requirement to attend X number of events/meetings - good point, one I tend to agree with as I have to drive 2 hours to attend club meetings.

 

As a club we may be able to negotiate with an insurance company for discounted insurance - I know AROCA do this. Yeah, but saving a few bucks isn't why I join a car club / decide what car club to join. And the bargaining power of one club with 300 members is going to be much better than 10 clubs with 30 members.

 

Anyway, as mentioned I have no barrow to push. These are my thoughts only, and are offered as constructive discussion (even if they may come across as a little "anti-new club"). To sum up, I like Petermc's thoughts - get in behind one club, improve / change it where possible, and take advantage of the benefits a larger club has to offer. Beware of ending up with the Judean Peoples Front, the People's Front of Judea, the Judean Popular People's front, etc (that'll sort out the youngsters from the older folk  )

 

 

[Whoray]

Agree with Alan and Simon (Luvemfast).  Why do we need another club that can only do what already exists.

Maybe a little more effort could be put in to fit in with existing clubs. If what you want is driving your Z's I'm sure that existing clubs have sufficient drives on their calendar. Maybe we could be more proactive and request what we need.

 

Ron

Foundation member

Life member

NDSOC

[620Z]

Yeah let's get the whole NDSOC committie to join up and start trying to suggest how we should run our Zed Car Club after only a few posts. Isn't running their Club enough? 

Craig

Non founding, Non Life Member.......... bla bla bla  :-\