Engineering and DOT Approval

[jezzza]

Hi guys,

 

So the time is coming for when I will get stuck into my project car: 77 260z 2+2

I have already planned a few mods for the car, and now im going through the process of getting pre-approvals

 

I spoke to an engineer about the following mods:

- Cutting fenders and running flared guards, no issues

- Coilovers with weld in camber plates, no isses

- L28, he reckons DOT will require all emissions gears

 

I have to check everything with DOT before I do any of the mods though

 

Has anyone had experience with the above mods not being approved? And has anyone got comments about the mods below

- Triple weber carbs, going from a "EFI" engine to a carby setup > will require emissions? I feel like I wana pass the motor off as a 2.8L haha

- I have a BBK for front and rear, fronts are R32 GTR on custom brackets, and rears are from another car with bracket but also has e-brake

 

The engineer said that DOT are less likely to approve if it seems like im building a "race" car, but to be honest, I just want to build a clean, vintage, jap style influenced car. Im not chasing power at all!

 

Should I "omit" some mods before pits, and do them after rego and risk the chance of a yellow?

 

 

[DreamZproject]

Didn't some of the L28's come carb'd stock? My understanding was that the rules about using different to stock cabs was very vague...

[1600dave]

Dunno about WA, but in NSW the rules are pretty clear - you need to meet the emissions requirements of either the car or the engine, whichever is later. L28 is later than 260Z, so must meet the emissions requirements of the car the L28 came out of.

 

Same as putting an RB or similar late model engine in a 260Z, just because the L28 is only a few years newer, the regulation still applies.

[datberger]

I built up an RB25DET powered 260Z a few years ago.  DOT didn't have any issues with the power plant, but they did have issues with coilovers and any change in track from running aftermarket wheels.  The issue with coilovers is the ability to lower the car below acceptable (100mm) limits.  I ended up getting small tabs welded onto the coilover body to prevent the car from being lowered below 100mm.  Maybe not the ideal solution, but the engineer and the inspector both approved it.  I'm not sure if the rules have changed in the last ten years, but I couldn't increase track by more than 25mm.

 

Don't DOT require you to submit an "application to modify" document before you even start?  That was the process I followed.  They will then tell you whether they approve (subject to engineering) or disapprove the modifications.  They approved in principle my mods subject to engineering testing and sign-off of the drivetrain, brakes and coilovers.

[dat2kman]

Grind off L28-

And restamp L26

In JDM markets the L28 was carbied. The FIA Homologation papers say so.

[chris240]

My parents 280c was single carb L28.....aka the Manly Ferry.

[Cozza]

What about the Patrol, wasn't that a carb'd L28?

Mick

[jamo240]

Hey Jezza

 

I had a look online, and it appears the WA Authorities apply the provisions of VSB14 for the purposes of assessing vehicle modifications.

 

If you have a look, you will find that the regulation requires the emissions to be consistent with those applicable to the vehicle manufacture date, not the engine. Accordingly, you should be fine to fit a fuel injected engine in place of a carburetted one (it is generally accepted that even without the supporting systems such as charcoal cannisters, later model fuel injected engines will be at least as good as earlier engines....it is certainly an arguable case).

 

http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/licensing/LBU_F_VS_ModificationLightVehicles.pdf

 

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP3_Section_LA_Engine_01jan2011_v3.pdf

 

I installed an RB25DET in my 240Z (along with a heap of other mods) under VSB14 here in Victoria, and I got through the registration process no problem (after an engineer did all the inspections and tests etc and submitted the file to VicRoads). The provisions of VSB14 are actually pretty sensible, and not particularly restrictive if you think it through before you start.

 

Good luck!

 

Jamo

 

 

[jezzza]

Thanks a heaps guys!

 

I am currently doing the DOT forms

The engineer I spoke to seemed to know his L series engines, and said to me i was silly for going for a L28 in place for the L26, said it was more sluggish.

Is this true? A bit off topic now, but would prefer to decide on engine before I hand DOT forms in

Its a rebuilt L28, F54 block and N42 head. As far as I know, all the internals are stock and head is stock, might possibly have mild cam but thats it

 

I think im going to try and get the car registered with L28 (if better than L26), triple carbs (apparently this is important to state), coilovers with weld in camber plates, cut fenders and flared guards with sensible wheel size

 

Hopefully if they do require the car to have all pollution gear, I can debate it that it came out as carby?

In principle, the mods I want to do have been approved by engineer, but DOT have the final say!

[DreamZproject]

If by sluggish you mean more power, then yes.

 

As far as I understand, the only reason you'd go for the smaller L blocks (besides originality) is to have (out of the box) a peakier engine.

Going to an L28 is the cheapest cost for most value mod, dare I say it, over anything else on a Z.

[KatoKid]

Hey Jezza

 

I had a look online, and it appears the WA Authorities apply the provisions of VSB14 for the purposes of assessing vehicle modifications.

 

If you have a look, you will find that the regulation requires the emissions to be consistent with those applicable to the vehicle manufacture date, not the engine. Accordingly, you should be fine to fit a fuel injected engine in place of a carburetted one (it is generally accepted that even without the supporting systems such as charcoal cannisters, later model fuel injected engines will be at least as good as earlier engines....it is certainly an arguable case).

 

http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/licensing/LBU_F_VS_ModificationLightVehicles.pdf

 

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP3_Section_LA_Engine_01jan2011_v3.pdf

 

I installed an RB25DET in my 240Z (along with a heap of other mods) under VSB14 here in Victoria, and I got through the registration process no problem (after an engineer did all the inspections and tests etc and submitted the file to VicRoads). The provisions of VSB14 are actually pretty sensible, and not particularly restrictive if you think it through before you start.

 

Good luck!

 

Jamo

 

Agree with Jamo here.

 

My engineer stated that as long as the engine was newer than the car then you only had to comply with the emissions applicable to the car originally. In my case (1998 M3 engine)  I asked about cats and he said while they were preferred they were not mandated.

 

 

[Scoota G]

The engine that the vehicle came out needs matching emission gear when transplanted into donor vehicle. I have recently been informed by Shannons Insurance that a 40yo or older vehicle requires no engineering for registration.

[DreamZproject]

The engine that the vehicle came out needs matching emission gear when transplanted into donor vehicle. I have recently been informed by Shannons Insurance that a 40yo or older vehicle requires no engineering for registration.

 

Please confirm this someone!

 

This would make all 240z's and now starting on 260z's not require an engineers cert!!! (love having a 74 260 ) Does this count for any modification done to the car? Somehow I doubt it, but would be bloody amazing if true!

[jamo240]

Age of the car is irrelevant, regardless of what an insurer might say.

 

Registration authorities require a car to be roadworthy. Where the car is modified beyond certain basic limits, an engineer must inspect and approve the modifications before they can be determined to be roadworthy.

 

The age of the car has no bearing on this requirement. If you put a big block Chev in a 1926 Model T Ford, you will need to have it engineered, and then roadworthied to register it.

[Scoota G]

Currently fitting an SR20DET to a KE20 Corolla. Shannons are going to continue to to insure the vehicle without engineering because the car was produced in 1973.

[Agno]

I would be very cautious about making an assumption based off incomplete information such as that.

 

Any insurance company will cover your car with listed "extras" (mods) BUT they must be road legal or they will not payout in the event of an at fault claim... So while Shannons have said they will cover you I would want clarification that they would cover your unengineered/unroadworthy car in the event of an accident. Other Suncorp Group providers have been known to play tricks like this in the past.

[jamo240]

And.....don't confuse registration with insurance. Insurers are concerned with getting a premium out of you first, and paying out a distant second. Registration authorities are concerned with ensuring safe vehicles are on our roads, and are not governed by what insurers do or say. The age of a car does not preclude it from being safe in the event of modification. It's the modification that drives the scrutiny....they want to ensure you have modified it in an acceptable manner. Insurers don't especially care at the time they take your money...they apply the scrutiny at payout time.

[dat2kman]

Get that in writing, on the insurance company letterhead, telling you you do not need the various transport depts engineering approvals, for modded vehicles over xx years old.

Post up a copy.

[44014]

In the uk you don't have to pay mot if the car is over 30 years old.

I have a friend that lives in London and drives a mg to work as all the taxes and so forth don't apply to it.

He doesn't even have to insure it as he has a Audi and that's insured and what ever car he drives the insurance goes with him.