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Ross Dunkerton and Datsun in Australia


gav240z
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As i have asked for in past, over the years,

Letters, on Nissan Japan letterheads stating what was built, fitted with what, assigned to whom, and what country registered in.

And/or, same, from original Dealers/Concessionaires, that supplied these cars.

 

Wheter so

D to publc or not, the proof that the factory, or dealers, built new cars, with special parts, as a new car, and were then able to ge registered for road use.

They do not need to be a sales docket or reciept to my Joe Public

 

Thats all, just proof from the builders of the cars.

Archival historical notes are insufficient.

 

It s jst the way CAMS is here. In New Zealand and USA, it is nowhere near as restrictive. If it was available, as an option, it can be used, ie they must use correct Sumitomo MK63 calipers, and a rotor to original dimension, rims, and body kit, as per aoption parts, triple Mikunis, the same!

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As i have asked for in past, over the years,

Letters, on Nissan Japan letterheads stating what was built, fitted with what, assigned to whom, and what country registered in.

And/or, same, from original Dealers/Concessionaires, that supplied these cars.

 

So I don't understand why you're asking for my help with that?

 

Surely you need to get this from Nissan themselves? Am I missing something?

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So what information can you offer, in regard to photographic and written notes, that can support other such information, obtained from other sources?

Do you have knowledge or are in contact with the Datsun dealer in, was it Woking!

So that they can provide a letter, on their dealership letterhead, that tells us they recieved new cars, and fitted items X,Y,Z etc, to these brand new cars, that were then road registered from date such and such?

 

That can then be presented to Nissan Japan, where they can be asked to confirm this information.

 

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As i have asked for in past, over the years,

Letters, on Nissan Japan letterheads stating what was built, fitted with what, assigned to whom, and what country registered in.

And/or, same, from original Dealers/Concessionaires, that supplied these cars.

 

Wheter so

D to publc or not, the proof that the factory, or dealers, built new cars, with special parts, as a new car, and were then able to ge registered for road use.

They do not need to be a sales docket or reciept to my Joe Public

 

Thats all, just proof from the builders of the cars.

Archival historical notes are insufficient.

 

It s jst the way CAMS is here. In New Zealand and USA, it is nowhere near as restrictive. If it was available, as an option, it can be used, ie they must use correct Sumitomo MK63 calipers, and a rotor to original dimension, rims, and body kit, as per aoption parts, triple Mikunis, the same!

 

 

So I don't understand why you're asking for my help with that?

 

Surely you need to get this from Nissan themselves? Am I missing something?

 

 

Anyone would think you two were speaking completely different languages  ???  maybe you are!!

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It does seem clear to me what is needed, particularly in light of the examples already given. Anything relevant may be of use if it can be used to support an application eg we already have the factory documentation on what parts were available. 

 

 

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So you want something like this, but with triple carbs as well.

http://s107.photobucket.com/user/GTCHRIS3/media/GTCHRIS3116/DSC00375_zpsf8aef2a5.jpg.html

Yep, that sort of stuff!

But we need it to state what size the Mag Wheels were!

Along with a few extra part numbers from the Options Parts catalogue, marked down as " fitted by dealer"

 

The USA EPA laws did not allow fitting of the triple Mikunis, this being a USA car, but things like four spot calipers, vented rotors, and wider wheels,  written on dockets similar to above, with part numbers and/or details on size/type, is what has been accepted, and approved by CAMS!

 

Photocopies of any documents, must be witnessed as a true copy pf the original document, in our case, however, other makes of cars that presented such "options" did not have this requirement.

It is called Datsun Bashing, and the other cars we compete with under CAMS Group S do not want Japanese cars to be better than them, in Australia!

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It does seem clear to me what is needed, particularly in light of the examples already given. Anything relevant may be of use if it can be used to support an application eg we already have the factory documentation on what parts were available.

Absolutely!

 

Nissan were really fantastic back in the day, still are, going by current Nismo Catalogues!

Any young gentleman racer could simply walk off the street, into a new car dealer, by himself a brand new 0 miles on clock Datsun 1200, 1600, 240SX, 240/260/280 Z, 120Y, Stanza, whatever,

Then trot right next door into the Spare Parts counter, and purchase anything he desired from the Options Parts book, with no limit, or no "sorry you not allowed that", carry it all to his 0 miles on clock car, then drive out, go home, fit all these great parts, trot off to his local race track the very next weekend, and go out and race, and have fun, maybe even win!!!

This did happen, heaps and heaps!

 

But there's the catch!

It WASN'T fitted to the car, and invoiced on the car sales/purchase docket/sales documentation!

 

However, Nissan Japan DID build up a number of cars, and the fact they were registered for road use, on public roads, is where we need to get details.

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FWIW i did ask Ross what happened to the zeds and he said none of them survived.

He won 3 Australian championships

1975 in his own 240Z (  Ross had a Datsun dealership)

1976 in a factory backed 260z

and again in 1977 with the old 240z using parts from the rolled '76 260z but no factory support from Nissan Aust 

 

To drag this back on topic :).

 

So did he elaborate on what happened to them? If none of them survived is that because they were crashed / wrecked? The original works car must have been returned to Japan if it was on a carnet no? But from reading between the lines in this thread it seems the car went missing and nobody has seen the car? Not even Nissan knows where it might be? I'm guessing you don't know either Alan?

 

It would appear to me that the car had changed a few times during it's time in Australia. For example (and don't hate me Alan for referring Zhome) but here: http://zhome.com/History/rally.htm

 

You can see it's livery looks quite different to the photos above. I can see TKS33 4080

Ausi3.jpg

 

Maybe it was just repainted? If it was re-shelled I don't see why they would keep the Japanese registration on it?

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It might be worth asking Alan Stean this question.He is still active in the Z community as he was at the NDN2015 event .Alan and Ross are good friends and Alan does still navigate for him on a number of rally events. He is seen here with Marsden and Ross working on the channel 9 cars.

Anyone from ZCCQ could probably contact Alan Stean. 

post-10860-144023787251_thumb.jpg

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Why are you bothering with all this now, Jason?

Boredom?

Well, I can no longer race anymore, but that shouldn't prevent me from trying to assist others, if anything it gives my 280Z Gp S car a disadvantage, as it runs single throttle body intake injection.

If this was to ever get up, the 240/260's would get the OK to run triples.

Now, here's a "fun fact" the Group S regs for Datsun Spirts 2000 has now had approved, twin Webers, in place of twin Mikuns, for various readons, I managed to get that one through, but to no benefit to me, but plenty to others.

 

They were never built with them, no dealer ever fitted them, but CAMS can be flexible.

The Optionarts for Z's are not at all banned, or not allowed, in fact CAMS have said the opposite, but onus is on us to show them, what it is they want to see.

 

The information, the few photos, here, on the Dunko car, do help, and are part of any submission, but deally pics of the wider rims, rims off showing brakes, engine bay showing triples, with the likes of Marsden, Dunko et al in background, door stickers showing what year, etc.

Just because it had spotlights and fancy stickers, will mean nothing, in this regard.

 

And yes, I'm farking bored, scratching around, nothing to do, can't race, can't drive, might buy a big sailing boat and bugger off.

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Nissan gave him the '76 winning car, which was a LHD car I belive, however they weren't picking him up for the '77 championship.

Ross had rolled that car in the Alpine rally destroying it, he took all the good parts off it put it on his old 240z then, used that car to beat Nissan Aust ( running violets? 710) and win the championship.....guess that made it a nice parting gift in the end.

 

That 240z? from what he told me it was on sold, parted out, was adament the car no longer exists

 

 

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It would appear to me that the car had changed a few times during it's time in Australia. For example (and don't hate me Alan for referring Zhome) but here: http://zhome.com/History/rally.htm

 

You can see it's livery looks quite different to the photos above. I can see TKS33 4080

Ausi3.jpg

 

Maybe it was just repainted? If it was re-shelled I don't see why they would keep the Japanese registration on it?

 

Gav,

That photo is a very good example of why you should not trust what you see in books and on the internet 100% without doing a bit of cross-referencing.

 

The caption says that it's the '72 Southern Cross, and credits the car/crew with an overall second place and a class victory. That's pretty good going considering that 'TKS 33 SU 4080' and its sister cars hadn't even been built yet....

 

In fact the photos shows the Dunkerton / Large crewed car from the 1974 Southern Cross, 'TKS 33 SU 4080''. This was the Fall / Halloran car, left over from the 1973 Southern Cross. 

 

Notice the distinctive heated front 'screen, the position of the cut-off switch on the scuttle (on the right hand side, because it's an LHD car), the 'Monte Carlo' drop bumper and the distinctive treatment of the front indicator units. I think it's the same - original, not re-shelled - '4080', but possibly with a different engine than Fall and Halloran had used on the '73 Southern Cross. 

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So did he elaborate on what happened to them? If none of them survived is that because they were crashed / wrecked? The original works car must have been returned to Japan if it was on a carnet no? But from reading between the lines in this thread it seems the car went missing and nobody has seen the car? Not even Nissan knows where it might be? I'm guessing you don't know either Alan?

 

In most cases, the cars were simply rallied to structural destruction of the bodyshells. They used to split in half across the floors and tunnel behind the seats, the roof panels would split from the front pillars, and the front chassis rails and air tubes would go well out of shape. Once a 'shell had gone that baggy, it was not all that much use anymore. If they got crashed a few times it tended to make that a bit worse, of course...

 

To be honest, the cars were only built to take part in their main target event and perhaps a few others afterwards. They only had four-point roll over protection rather than multi-point cages which would have taken the stress off the 'shells somewhat, so their life expectancy was akin to a WWII fighter aircraft. There were notable exceptions, but they were where works cars were sold and lived on in privateer hands who tended to make-do-and-mend and helped the cars live longer. We have a couple such lucky survivors - including one of '4080's' batch sister cars - here in the UK.

 

Most (240Z/260Z works rally) cars that went back to Japan on their carnets were stripped and their bodies disposed of. Nissan kept - and displayed - three cars ('71 Safari winner, '72 Monte 3rd place car, '73 Safari winner) but the rest apparently didn't survive.

 

As I've said, and you noted again, '4080' should have gone back to Japan some time in 1974 having been in Australia for more than a year. If it stayed on, it should have lost its Japanese 'carnet' license plates and been put onto an Australian license plate. Sometimes one carnet plate or more would 'go missing' as souvenirs (there are a few pinned up on garage and office walls...) in which case a fine would have had to be paid in Japan. Nothing the Japanese mechanics could do about that if they weren't the ones who nicked them...

 

So, looking at the pictures of the Dunkerton car from the '76 Australian championship, and the photos of the car from the '76 Lutwyche Village Warana Rally (Qld.) and '76 SEV Marchal Rally (Vic.) that were part of that championship, I see an LHD car with some obviously Works parts attached to it. It's wearing one of the '4080' carnet license plates. I don't see the works heated front 'screen (as seen on '4080' when Fall drove it on the '73 Southern Cross, and when Dunkerton drove it on the '74 Southern Cross) but 'screens got broken quite easily and the heated ones were quite difficult to move from 'shell to 'shell. I see a proper (late) works sump guard with all it's tie-ins to the middle part of the Monte Carlo type 'drop' bumper (they made them like that so that they could put the spotlamps in there) and I see works sill-mount jacking points. Bolt-ons include wheels, which are easily swapped from car to car and each car would have had a nice batch of wheels as part of its service kit.

 

I'm 50/50 about the '76 championship car being the real '4080' works 'shell. Much of the evidence from the photos points that way, but there's no 100% certain evidence. It would help if we knew the chassis number of the '76 championship car (I know '4080's' original chassis number...) and if we could see some photos of the interior and engine bay. One of the key points about LHD works 240Z and 260Z rally cars is that the works fabricators went to great trouble to build them with their (hydraulic, fly-off) handbrake levers on the LEFT side of the tunnel. Of course, normal LHD road cars - like RHD cars - had their handbrake levers on the RIGHT side of the tunnel. Usually, when works LHD cars were re-shelled into standard road 'shells, few bothered to go the whole hog and carry over the LH handbrake. It's a good thing to look out for.

 

Nissan gave him the '76 winning car, which was a LHD car I belive, however they weren't picking him up for the '77 championship.

Ross had rolled that car in the Alpine rally destroying it, he took all the good parts off it put it on his old 240z then, used that car to beat Nissan Aust ( running violets? 710) and win the championship.....guess that made it a nice parting gift in the end.

 

That 240z? from what he told me it was on sold, parted out, was adament the car no longer exists

 

From the above, I wonder whether there is some slight mis-match in information? If Nissan gave Dunkerton a car, I think it was the LHD (as noted) original works '4080'. That was an HLS30-prefixed 240Z, and they gave it to him in order for him to take part in the '76 Australian championship and stand a good chance (an ex-works car probably being better than a privateer build at that point). If they gave him an LHD car that was NOT '4080', then where would that have come from? It seems much more likely that it was the real '4080', and I'm presuming that the '4080' Japanese carnet plate we see on it is either some kind of chicanery (maybe linked to the log book) that gave an advantage or avoided a hassle, or that it was actually given an Australian registration which we are not seeing. I've not seen any pictures of the back of that car from the '76 Australian championship, and wonder if anyone can come up with some? 

 

Sometimes it's better not to try digging too deep when you smell a rat. When you get to the bottom of the hole you sometimes find a whole nest of the damned things. Fact: '4080's' carnet had run out by 1976 and no car should have been wearing '4080's' plates. If '4080' stayed in Australia it should have been given an Australian license plate. I don't personally care if a little bit of jiggery-pokery went on in relation to that, and I'm only interested in following up on the histories, careers and fates of the works cars. Others with a reputation to protect might want to stick to their original stories, and let sleeping dogs lie. I don't want to upset them, so that's as far as I'll dig while they are looking. 

 

So, to sum up, I think Dunkerton's '76 Championship car is very very likely to have been the original '4080', and is very very unlikely to have survived as a 'shell let alone a complete car. Parts and pieces of paper on the other hand can live on...       

 

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Nissan gave him the '76 winning car, which was a LHD car I belive, however they weren't picking him up for the '77 championship.

Ross had rolled that car in the Alpine rally destroying it, he took all the good parts off it put it on his old 240z then, used that car to beat Nissan Aust ( running violets? 710) and win the championship.....guess that made it a nice parting gift in the end.

 

That 240z? from what he told me it was on sold, parted out, was adament the car no longer exists

 

That ties in with what the guy with the Red 240z said about having Ross's struts in his car, which was bought from Alan Stean.

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