Advice on a mighty Z restoration

[DatZed94]

Hey guys

I have been a fan of the 240z and 260z for a few months now and once I start apprenticeship and earning money I am looking to buy one or restore on over a few years hopefully. Just got a few questions regarding z cars and restorations. I am aware of the $20K+ cost that comes with a full resto and the time in which it takes.

I'm 18 with general knowledge of engines, suspension, brakes etc

 

How easy is it to pull apart and put together a 240z or 260z?

Is the L series engine complicated? Is the wiring complicated?

Are rust repairs easy to do yourself?

And anything else that I need to be aware of would be helpful!

 

Thanks in advance for advice guys I'm just wanting to know if I can complete a resto with a nice clean Z at the end without too much trouble aha I'm happy to buy a complete Z and make changes over time but I have always lived the idea of a project car to keep me busy when not working and have satisfaction of building your own car

 

 

 

 

[Whittie]

I am aware of the $50K+ cost that comes with a full resto and the time in which it takes.

 

I'll just fix that for you there....

 

Zed's are SUPER easy cars to work on - they don't get any simpler. There is not a whole lot to them and the more you can do yourself the better. Full Resto's have been done in the 20k mark - ReverendZ is a great example - but it's a huge effort.

 

The more you do yourself, obviously the cheaper it is and there is no shortage of people who have done it before you and documented it all in words and pictures to make it easier for you, so there is nothing to be afraid of in terms of being able to do the work.

 

You should be fully aware tho and comfortable with the fact it will cost a fortune to do and a HEAP more time than you expect. Mine's been a quick build at 2.5yrs. It's a lot of money to spend on something you won't get to drive for a very long time.

[C.A.R.]

[gav240z]

My advice buy 1 that is in good drive able roadworthy condition. It might cost 15k for an honest 2 seater that is not perfect but you can enjoy immediately and fix it up gradually.

 

We all have to start somewhere and a Z is a simple car to learn with. However you might want to consider 1 as a second car and have a small hatch for the daily grind.

 

All the best.

 

PS lurch play nice. I was once like him too.

[thriller]

How easy is it to pull apart and put together a 240z or 260z?

Is the L series engine complicated? Is the wiring complicated?

Are rust repairs easy to do yourself?

 

-Very

-Not at all (haynes manual covers it completely)

-depends how much of it there is...

 

Best to save up 10k ish and wait 6 months for the right one to pop up. I jumped in headfirst a year ago with a rusty one and it's still rusty. Nice garage ornament though!

 

EDIT:

 

All that said, http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,12368.0.html looks okay.

The good thing with buying a car in bits, is that it's already at the tear-down stage where you won't find any more nasty surprises.

 

If you want a project car, i.e. not running to start with, suggest giving yourself a healthy 10k budget, and just wait for the right one to pop up. Give yourself 6 months and you'll see a few okay ones for that price. No rust!

 

[fluegel]

As far as rust goes you can do it yourself with a decent mig welder and a set of panel beating tools as well as the angle grinder etc. I did the rust work in mine years ago and most of it is holding up although it is not' fine art' metal work . In my opinion body work is the most expensive part mechanicals are just pulling apart and reassambling with repaired or replacement parts.  Spray painting is another issue as it is a problem doing this sort of thing in a suburban backyard. Doing your own interior is worth while you can buy ready made seat covers and moulded foam from the states I had new loose fit carpets made copied from my originals but unfortunately the business in Adelaide sold out to a victorian firm.

 

Richard

[DatZed94]

Thanks for the advice guys

im glad they are easy to work on cause they are a very nice car

 

Thriller: i was looking at that cause looked to be a pretty good deal but in like 6 months time, wouldent have much money to do anything with it or space to store it atm. who that be a good starting point? car in pieces and in primer with minimal rust?

 

cheers gavin

[RB30X]

My advice is come back in 5-10 years when you have more money and life experience.

 

Tough advice, but the young people that come here without a silver spoon in hand never stay long.

 

The people and advice on this forum are brilliant but I'm thirty yrs old and sometimes I find myself talking slowly and into their 'good' ears.

[thriller]

Thriller: i was looking at that cause looked to be a pretty good deal but in like 6 months time, wouldent have much money to do anything with it or space to store it atm. who that be a good starting point? car in pieces and in primer with minimal rust?

 

I honestly think you'd be best off waiting until you have storage issues sorted out. Good deals pop up through this forum every once in a while, though most of them will be on the east coast.

 

For a resto project, buying a car in pieces is probably a lot better than buying a whole car that barely runs. That way there's no carpet, sound deadener, seats, interior, drivetrain, etc that will block your view of a rusty shell that's falling to bits.

 

 

That car is probably the project potential I've seen to pop up in S.A. for roughly a year? But it'll be a waste if you don't have the space to keep it & just end up needing to sell in 6 months time...

 

Anyways S.A. has a good bunch of Z folk. If you wanna come have a look at my rustbucket and a chat you're welcome, just shoot me a pm 

[DatZed94]

yea i wasnt planning on buying anything till i got space and money comming in so it just dont sit there taking up space being a waste of potential!

my dads got a workshop but theres crap taking up space which im cleaning up for him a day a week so maybe when theres space convince him to let me use it 

 

cheers for the invite thirller, may hit you up when i got something in near future hopefully

[adam]

Being 18, would this be your first car if you purchased one? If so, I'd highly recommend purchasing one that is currently on the road or close to roadworthy condition because owning your first car with a fresh licence and NOT being able to drive it, that's going to drive you insane and you'll either want to get the car quickly on the road to drive it (unlikely due to lack of funds) or sell it off.

 

If however this is in fact a second (or third, fourth, fifth, etc) car, I'd recommend giving it a crack at restoring one.

 

I bought my 240 when I was 22 (only just turned 23) and I had a heap of people saying, 'it's going to be hard', 'you're going to end up selling it off unfinished', rah rah rah, but you only use that as motivation to get it done quicker to prove them wrong

 

Being a uni student, my income isn't as big as some peoples and so therefore I'm not doing a massive restoration where every nut and bolt is replaced, but more a 'get it up to roadworthy condition' standard first and then possibly pulling it off the road down the track once I've had the chance to enjoy her.

 

I don't know your current situation mate but if you want it that bad, just do it. You'll soon find out whether it was the right decision or not. If it goes wrong, learn to think things through better next time

 

Good luck.

[mikmarda]

Buy a beaten 2+2 that is complete and running, hone your skillz on it and over time monitor sales obsessively. When the time is right to buy that 2 seater, you'll know what you can and can't handle and that which you don't want to deal with. I hate interior work for example. but that's ok because I have now ripped it all out and can see all the bits she tries to hide from me.

 

 

 

 

[G]

Might be worth checking out this one since you're in Adelaide:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Datsun-240Z-/170986226984?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item27cf92c528&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1156

 

I would try to take someone who knows what they're looking at. Even if you don't buy it, they can tell you where the typical problem areas are.

 

[nizm0zed]

^^

Not to discount the point you are making Peter, but we can see your workmanship is at the top of the game with no costs spared, and your doing some amazing bodywork on that chassis.

 

but yes, i agree, its not cheap, if you wanna play, you gotta pay...

I have done 95% of my car all by myself and found some brilliant bargains along the way and i'll still shudder to think what i have spent in the 4+ years it has allready been.

[Ledge]

Hi Mate

Peter has got it right ^^^^^^

It doesnt really matter what the car is or how easy or hard certain parts

are, Restoring cars will be expensive. Yes you can save alot if you can do some

yourself but what are you actually saving ?. Money maybe. I dont think so.

Unless you can do it ALL yourself and have proof that it is done to a high standard

no-one will ever give you the same amount as a fully documented restoration from

a resto shop.

If We had a car dropped in for us to paint and the owner done the rust

and panel work, we would NOT guarantee any of our products. We cant, PPG cant and

no business will. So this means you also need to paint it yourself. Good luck.

This is the main reason why there are so many DODGY cars out there.

 

Best off saving hard for a year longer and buy a car you can drive.

 

How pissed off would you be if the car you paid good dollars for cause its been "restored"

Had chunks of bog falling out cause it was "restored" by a kid out of high school.

 

Any car is a big job, If you cant do it properly PAY for it to be done.

When you come visit Thriller get him to bring you into my shop and i will show you some

stuff.

 

Cheers

Paul

 

[Brabham]

Best advice I can give is to do a panelbeating course at TAFE, have just started this year, did Mig welding last year, I would recommend this course of action. To do panelwork on a zed you will need to be very good at Mig welding and panelforming, which is what I am doing now. Support TAFE while the courses are still there, because the way things are going, they may not always be...

[zed74]

$25k to this the stage shown in photos

 

Honestly, even a good zed will set you back $5k in bodywork before painting & some will set you back $10 - $15k in rust repairs before you get to bodywork!

[Agno]

How pissed off would you be if the car you paid good dollars for cause its been "restored"

Had chunks of bog falling out cause it was "restored" by a kid out of high school.

 

This dammit! I went out and bought what I thought was a tidy car. As I have learnt more and more about these cars I have found that in reality I definitely paid more than the car is truly worth. If I had lower expectations I'm sure I would be happier, but I sincerely wish I knew what I know now when I was buying my car 2 years ago as I would have saved myself a lot of time and money in the process.

 

For the record, just because you can do it yourself does not mean you can do it on the cheap. If you are anything like half the people on this forum and have a busy work/study life, you will learn that there are many things that take your free time away from restoring your beloved Z. As much as I love working in the garage whenever I can, it comes at a cost.

 

My 2c, from the guy who bought a "driver" and has still only managed to get 50 days driving out of it in the last 2 years (check my log books!)

[nizm0zed]

My 2c, from the guy who bought a "driver" and has still only managed to get 50 days driving out of it in the last 2 years (check my log books!)

 

indeed!

I would wager that mine has done more kms on a towtruck in the last 4 years than with me behind the wheel.

I think i have probably put about 120kms total on it since i started my resto

[Fairlady Z]

Unless you know what you doing save 20K+ and get one that's finished. By your age I was very good at sanding and blocking (though hate it with passion), good with priming and knew how to fix dents and use a Mig. Do a head rebuild, manual gearbox conversion and reasonable at using a spray gun. My old man had a workshop and in my spare time and school holidays i was working for FREE at a local crash shop.

Today's kids won't even take the rubbish out without parent paying them $10 for the job.

 

Buying a Z for first car (even though the one Thriller suggested is mine, and i need to sell it ) its a bad thing. Yes Z cars are very nice and lot of people want it. Problem is no one want to pay for it. they all think its a 70s car should be $1000 as its Datsun.

Sorry ain't gong to happen.

 

People that buy badly beaten buckets and think they can fix it, quickly learn what big poo poo they landed them self in. Few people have done it but none at your age.

 

if you don't have any body repair skills or mechanical (bear in mind mechanical's are lot cheaper than bodywork).

 

I get cheesed off that when people buy a z thinking they can fix it than sell it as scrap cause they lost interest,cant afford it or let it rust even more so its worthless.

 

To add to the list my current 240z owes me close to 10K in parts alone. Hardly any body work done, no engine yet, no interior or exteriors seal kit etc.... i got to spend probably over 500+ hr on body work as I want it perfect. and totaly rust free. I also shop around and know where to get good deals.

 

I got money so funds are not a problem, for me its time. full time work and other commitments leaves no time for rest or fun. 5days working for a company to fund the projects and pay mortgage work few hrs after work on cars and than whole weekend.

 

As much as i enjoy owning and driving them I also enjoy working on them. lot of sacrifices have to be made.

 

I like people getting more into Z but sadly not many young guns stay in the game for long enough to enjoy them.

 

Anyway not to scare you but prepare you for the crazy journey that seems like you willing to take. 

[FuzzyDropbear]

I agree with the above statements, when you consider a cheap bucket Z which has been sitting outside for extended periods of time, you also have to factor in all the little things like buying new interior pieces (carpets, seat covers, steering wheel, trim pieces) and all the other things that perish with time and don't cost heaps on their own, but add up when you have to buy them all.

 

However, 2+2's are cheaper and great... cause noone wants them 

 

Also depends on what facilities you have access to (ie. do you have access to a mig?). If not, you'll have to budget for equipment. I'm doing my bodywork and paint etc. myself so I've bought good quality gear because I won't be paying others for labour so I might as well spend some of that 'labour' money on decent gear to help me get the work done.

 

I guess you just have to look at your budget and your timeframe for getting things done and decide if it's something you want to do now, or save up and have a crack in a year or two?

[DatZed94]

Well I already have a car which is efficient and reliable so having a z off the road for a couple if years doesn't fase me.

I'm not planing on buying a rust bucket which will cost a lot to get all the rust out, Fairlady Z: the rolling shell up got is something would interest me cause not too much rust. Therefore won't cost too much to get someone to remove it. The type of resto I would do its replace every but and bolt cause I know I can't afford it, a rust free, fresh paint and interior with a clean motor would be to my satisfaction.

Ahh got oxy welder and an electric type one which I know how to use well and I should w able to get a good space in workshop to keep everything so got a good space in probably half a year. I'm comfortable to do interior and wiring comfortable by myself and I got a mate who has rebuilt a celica (he wrote it off a month after he had it on the road) so he would probably give me a hand.

I should be getting full time work wothon a month so over two years I could put 30k into a car + I already or enough to buy a good rolling shell with cash left over

And I'm very patient and don't rush or waste time on things so I ain't going to buy something just to watch it sit there, won't mind have it a work in progress over the years and wont rush and skip steps

[dat240z]

Mate I bought my 240z when I was 19 after lusting all my life for one. Had that, and a cheap daily. If you want to go for it now why not. If you choose carefully and look after it, youll be the only one of your mates with a car that appreciates in value. But in saying that, dont kid yourself about costs, storage, build time etc. If you sit down and plan it properly you'll be fine.

[Fairlady Z]

Dat240z is right ^^^^

 

Preparation. I got few project cars and every one of them has a expense sheet and an estimated cost.

 

Excell is good for auto summing and calculating all sorts of stuff ie stuff u sell or swap etc..

 

I estimate what each project is going to cost by comparing prices from

Various sources. Pick what im happy to pay or thing i have to have. Place a note along side each item and if of a net paste a link to the website.

 

You quickly see what just the parts are going to cost you. Than u add labour and other cost  u may need to pay.

If u not happy with the end number start thinking what is necessary or hard to replace. The easy costly stuff can be done later when ur finances improve.

 

Once u done ur estimate than add at least 30-40% more to final figure for things u forgot or going to bite when you assumed it can be repaired.

 

If you happy with that figure than start diving into it.

 

Biggest tip is stick to the plan which is very hard. Once u change ur previous estimate is useless. Before changing refer to your budget estimate cost. Otherwise spirals out of control very quickly.

 

Lot of guys here including myself have fallen in this trap.

 

It can be fun and very rewarding but also heartbreak and stress.

Plan for the worse and will only be better not the other way around.

 

Have fun. If u still brave you can have a look at my cars and mess that it can cause when things go bit out of control.

 

 

[gav240z]

What Fairlady Z said rings true, I had many friends telling me to give up on the 240z (I was a student at the time) or just store it away and get to it in 10 years time when I'm working full time and have the money for it do lots of work to it then. In many ways they were right... I now have the money to fix it the way I want but even so I still want to do most of the work myself. I'm not in a rush.

 

I'm stubborn I didn't want to listen to them at the time, but if I do have any regrets is that I didn't just chill out a little, spend my money on going out with friends or travelling say somewhere like South America.

 

At the end of the day 20K is a lot of money when you think about it and to spend it just on a car? Well you have to live a little when you're younger and I know a lot of guys spend bucket loads of cash on cars when they are young but almost all of them never see anything close to that money back when it comes time to sell. If I have learnt anything is that travel gives you some good perspective in life.

 

What I'm saying is, it's fine to get carried away with fixing up a classic car, but don't do it at the expense of having fun in other areas of life and be prepared for it to be a long term project! When I see some amazing cars, say on Youtube or featured in magazines often it's taken the owner 10+ years to restore it to that condition. Too many guys pull their car off the road then get carried away with buying the best parts, doing the best modifications and soon the car is off the road for 10+ years and they haven't driven it at all.

 

I would rather have something 'not perfect' and drivable that I can enjoy and gradually fix it up. Nothing worse than having a car in parts in a garage sucking your money away.

 

Be patient, find a good car and just enjoy driving it. You don't need fancy paint jobs, 350+ HP to enjoy a Z(btw I know you haven't said this yet). You can have a very modest build and a slightly rough body and still really enjoy the experience of owning it.