The Journey of the 270ZX

[HS30-H]

Seeing as I got the front guards from Jason, he advised me it came from a LHD S130, which would suggest a US import, yes? These guards had Fairlady 280Z badges on the front quarter guards, which I purchased. These were not S30 guards, they were S130. So would that not imply it is known as a Fairlady280Z in not only the JDM but also the USDM?

 

No, it implies that somebody got a Japanese market 'Fairlady 280Z' badge and stuck it on his US market car.

 

]Not only that but I have a friend in Texas with an S130 with stock badging.

 

 

Clearly a Fairlady280Z

 

Clearly a 'Fairlady 280Z' emblem. Stuck onto a US market S130-series Z. Just like that front spoiler and the wheels, and (?) the 'Fuel Injection' badge....

 

Also I feel 'wrong-headed' is highly misused, why 'wrong'? It is in fact a 260Z chassis with an L28 from factory. I don't see how that logic is incorrect.

 

Because it is wrong, and it's just lazy. If you go down that road, you get the possibility of further wrong-headed thinking like "...the Fairlady Z432 is just a 240Z with an S20 engine..." and "..the 240Z is just a Fairlady Z432 with an L24 engine..". You can insist that the '280Z' is a "260Z with an L28" if you want ( what you do in your own home is up to you.... ) but nuisances like me will come along and ask you what 260Z, and - indeed - what the term '260Z' means in the first place. What's a '260Z'? You think they are all the same...? 

 

I also heard they came with C110 rear tail lights as standard and 240Z rear wing optional.

 

Lovely! 

       

[bullzed]

If model names and numbering are so inaccurate, why get so worked up over a single inaccuracy? Had my car been made for JDM, it would be badged as such, a Fairlady280Z, yet still maintain the same engine, same chassis and same visuals. They are the exact same concept.

 

In regards to my 'wrong-headed' approach, how would you describe a 260Z? I would say it is an S30 chassis, equipped with L26 and chrome surrounded separated rear tail lights. Now using the term 260Z as a reference point, a 280Z is a 260Z with an L28, or if we take a step back, an S30 chassis with an L28 and chrome surrounded separated rear tail lights.

 

Sure there are multiple variations of S30s and S130s, but if we all must be so incredibly accurate when referencing our cars, there's no point to it at all. What's the difference between a '79 S130 and an '82 S130? A LOT. Yet they are both S130's, both Fairlady280Z's in Japan and both 280ZX's in Australia. Personally, I have a wedge shaped hunk of metal on 4 round things with 4 round light up things on the back. Somewhere on it, it says Datsun.

[HS30-H]

I'm not getting "worked up" over anything...

 

All I'm saying is that it's worth getting things right when we so easily can. This is not rocket science. Swapping emblems on a car doesn't make it something else, and there's absolutely no harm in using the correct terminology. Why is it that people seem to get so upset when simple errors are pointed out to them?

 

To answer your question ( "How would you describe a '260Z'?" ) I'd have to ask you a question in return. My question is which '260Z'? Which market? Which year? See? There are huge differences between early and late, LHD and RHD and even different versions of LHD and RHD depending on intended market and options. That's the whole point. The term '260Z' on its own actually means a whole spectrum of different things, and applies to Part Number One ( the bare monocoque with nothing bolted onto it ) just as much as the whole car.     

 

Sure there are multiple variations of S30s and S130s, but if we all must be so incredibly accurate when referencing our cars, there's no point to it at all.

 

On the contrary. Being accurate IS the whole point. Personally speaking, I'm interested in correctly identifying my cars ( for a whole bunch of different reasons ) and those of others, and can't see the attraction or benefit in being sloppy or careless about it all.  How are you going to get what you want if you can't identify it correctly, and don't know what it is you already have?

 

 

 

On the other hand, you can call your car what you like. My uncle Stan wears a skirt and stilettos on Friday nights and calls himself Ivana C@ckatoo. His choice   

 

[bullzed]

All well and good but my whole point here is that there is no difference between using the term 280ZX or Fairlady280Z as they are different names, in different countries for the same thing. They both describe an S130 chassis, with an L28, regardless of S1 or S2 bumpers and panels, regardless of fabric, suede or leather interiors, regardless of LHD or RHD, they are both the same blanket name for an S130 with an L28 powerhouse. If someone chooses to badge it a Fairlady280Z, it may not be regionally correct, but it is correct in that it still falls under that name in another country.

 

I respect your desire to be specific about the models and variations, however this is a blanket term, as you say, relating to the chassis and engine combo itself.

[HS30-H]

All well and good but my whole point here is that there is no difference between using the term 280ZX or Fairlady280Z as they are different names, in different countries for the same thing.

 

But that's my point. The '280ZX' and 'Fairlady 280Z' are actually not the same thing at all.

 

You can stick whatever emblems you like on your car, but don't tell me that your car is "the same thing" as a Fairlady 280Z because it just isn't and it never was. I, in turn, appreciate some of where you are coming from with regards to them being broadly similar, but the essence of these cars is in their individual market and sub-variant specs. The 1978 L28E engine in a Japanese market S130-series Z and a 1978 L28E engine in a USA market S130-series Z ( not to mention European / Australian / NZ / UK etc market versions ) are not exactly the same, and nor are the bodyshells of the cars - even if they did share a lot of component parts.

 

Further up the thread you were sure that the 'Fairlady 280Z' emblem was fitted to the USA market cars, but it wasn't. That's something we can be definite about, isn't it? For me, the same thinking goes right through the cars - even down to the level of individual brackets and tabs welded onto the bodyshells. There are things that we might not be sure about, but there's plenty that we CAN be sure about, and I don't see any problem with us ( as marque and model enthusiasts ) being careful to get those things right.

 

If we don't, then who will?       

[luvemfast]

I appreciate what Alan is saying. At first I took him the wrong way, thinking he was being a smart arse.

But now, understand that WE need to speak correctly about these cars. Or the correct terminology will be lost, as WE are the ones continuing the marque.

 

This forum is advertised as the "Australasian Z car resource".

If we don't get it right, who will?

 

You can call your car whatever you like, just don't pass it as something it's not.

ps- I'm not a fan of the tail lights 

[dat2kman]

Alan, in what market was a S130 sold with all orange only lenses embedded within the front bumper bar.

Here in Australia the S130 was sold with a half orange/half white front indicator lens.

 

Reason i ask, is that i had a front bumper bar, with orange only lenses, and the rubber trim and chrome bar was not like the Australian delivered ones, from what i recall.

Also the S130 had a rack and pinion non power assist steering, the crossmember did not match the AUS cars.

It also had the twin butterfly throttle body and matching manifold.

 

The provenance of this car was dubious, it had Fairlady 280zx on one guard, no babging on rear, no sunroofs. It was right hand drive. Engine was a F54 block/P90 head. Interior and dash cluster was all English writing on controls.

 

A JDM?

A USDM?

Not at all sure.

 

I do have the only  complete 280Z 1976 body shell in Australia, but, it is not a USDM 280Z!

Its the CAMS Group S Historic race car.

 

As an aside, i have approached our Australian Historic Commisioners with some information about the rally cars that Nissan Japan prepared for their team and the privateers that either bought or were given?, them, between 1970 and 1975 fir the Safari, RAC and Monte. I stumbled across a website that listed who drove what, when and where, with each cars registration plate for identification.

Some had the unique cast 7" rim fitted, the crucial part is that Nissan Japan, or a division of, built up the cars.

All i am relying on is that one website, british based, i think.

 

Can you shed and further information or links to sites, that you may know of, or in the same vein

Jason

[.]

Zac, put whatever on your car. I think its unique and generates interest in the marque.

 

I think whats coming out in the wash is the confusion caused when any of us make statements that appear to be facts based on a memory, implication or some combination of 30 year old artefacts that could easily have been swapped multiple times before now.

Unless a car is a one owner or unless there is very clear documented evidence it is difficult to be certain on the differences between all the variants delivered all around the world. I think some of those finer details will be lost to the sands of time (therefore not worth arguing over). But at the same time I don't think its a good idea to pass off memories or assumptions as facts. Unless your friend in Texas purchased the car new how can anyone be sure those badges are original? I have never heard of Fairladys in the US market other than a handful of imports.

 

For example I had thought The Fairlady S130 was only a L20? (Anyone know for certain there was an L28 Fairlady S130?). Having just done a search there is a posibility the L28 was an option on the Fairlady. But then again I am just regurgitating memories or assumptions someone else has posted.

[luvemfast]

For example I had thought The Fairlady S130 was only a L20? (Anyone know for certain there was an L28 Fairlady S130?). Having just done a search there is a posibility the L28 was an option on the Fairlady.

I have a JDM 280ZX 2 seater, numbers matching L28.

It is badged as a "Fairlady 280Z"

 

[d3c0y]

 

From what i have picked up it works like this:

 

Fairlady Z (with no numbers) were the base model 2.0L models. S30 & S130 chassis

Fairlady 240Z, Fairlady 280Z had the bigger motors in them L24, L28. I'm not sure what RS30s in japan had apart from the 2.0L as i've only seen 2.0L ones.

 

 

To sum it all up, the sub variants have a lot more difference than the face value ones that most people know about, which explains why someone like Alan who does know about these numerous differences it sounds so odd for someone who isn't in the know to call it the wrong thing.

 

 

Just check out the bumper assemblies on a USDM 280Z for example, they have different front stone panels, grill, indicators, bumper shock absorber struts, bumper mounts. The 280Z even weighs around 1300kg from all the extra stuff!

[.]

I have a JDM 280ZX 2 seater, numbers matching L28.

It is badged as a "Fairlady 280Z"

 

Cool thanks for the confirmation.

[HS30-H]

For example I had thought The Fairlady S130 was only a L20? (Anyone know for certain there was an L28 Fairlady S130?). Having just done a search there is a posibility the L28 was an option on the Fairlady. But then again I am just regurgitating memories or assumptions someone else has posted.

 

Japanese market S130-series Z models:

 

*'S130-S' Fairlady Z ( L20E engine ) 2-seater

*'S130-J' Fairlady Z-T ( L20E engine ) 2-seater

*'S130' Fairlady Z-L ( L20E engine ) 2-seater

 

*'HS130-J' Fairlady 280Z-T ( L28E engine ) 2-seater

*'HS130' Fairlady 280Z-L ( L28E engine ) 2-seater

 

*'S130-ST' Fairlady Z Turbo ( L20ET engine ) 2-seater

*'S130-JTB' Fairlady Z-T Turbo ( L20ET engine ) 2-seater

*'S130-T' Fairlady Z-L Turbo ( L20ET engine ) 2-seater

 

*'GS130-S' Fairlady Z 2by2 ( L20E engine )

*'GS130-J' Fairlady Z-T 2by2 ( L20E engine )

*'GS130' Fairlady Z-L 2by2 ( L20E engine )

 

*'HGS130-J' Fairlady 280Z-T  2by2 ( L28E engine )

*'HGS130' Fairlady 280Z-L 2by2 ( L28E engine )

 

*'KGS130-J' Fairlady Z T-Bar Roof 2by2 ( L20E engine )

*'KS130-J' Fairlady Z T-Bar Roof ( L20E engine ) 2-seater

*'KHGS130-JBC' Fairlady 280Z T-Bar Roof 2by2 ( L28E engine )

*'KHS130-JBC' Fairlady 280Z T-Bar Roof ( L28E engine ) 2-seater

 

*'KGS130-JTB' Fairlady Z T-Bar Roof Turbo 2by2 ( L20ET engine )

*'KS130-JTB' Fairlady Z T-Bar Roof Turbo ( L20ET engine ) 2-seater

*'GS130-ST' Fairlady Z Turbo 2by2 ( L20ET engine )

*'GS130-JTB' Fairlady Z-T Turbo 2by2 ( L20ET engine )

*'GS130-T' Fairlady Z-L Turbo 2by2 ( L20ET engine )

 

 

Simple, isn't it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HS30-H]

Alan, in what market was a S130 sold with all orange only lenses embedded within the front bumper bar.

Here in Australia the S130 was sold with a half orange/half white front indicator lens.

 

Reason i ask, is that i had a front bumper bar, with orange only lenses, and the rubber trim and chrome bar was not like the Australian delivered ones, from what i recall.

Also the S130 had a rack and pinion non power assist steering, the crossmember did not match the AUS cars.

It also had the twin butterfly throttle body and matching manifold.

 

The provenance of this car was dubious, it had Fairlady 280zx on one guard, no babging on rear, no sunroofs. It was right hand drive. Engine was a F54 block/P90 head. Interior and dash cluster was all English writing on controls.

 

A JDM?

A USDM?

Not at all sure.

 

Sounds like it might have started out as a late model UK or South African market car, but had possibly been messed with (?). There was no such thing as a 'Fairlady 280ZX' badge - it would have been 'Fairlady 280Z' ( without the 'X' ) or 'Fairlady Z'. The addition of any 'Fairlady' emblem on an RHD S130 with all English ( non Metric ) dials and servicing advice stickers would surely indicate that the 'Fairlady' badge was a non-standard later addition to a non-Japanese market RHD car, in my opinion. 

[ZED83]

I own a HGS130 280zx 2+2 1983 it has an original FairladyZ badge hidden behind the rear number plate! The panel is recessed with the badge perfectly placed in the centre. Looks to like its been there from new, wouldn't now it was there with out taking the plates off!

[zzzzed]

I think we have cluttered up this poor guys thred enough. Maybe it should be moved to its own thred

[HS30-H]

As an aside, i have approached our Australian Historic Commisioners with some information about the rally cars that Nissan Japan prepared for their team and the privateers that either bought or were given?, them, between 1970 and 1975 fir the Safari, RAC and Monte. I stumbled across a website that listed who drove what, when and where, with each cars registration plate for identification.

Some had the unique cast 7" rim fitted, the crucial part is that Nissan Japan, or a division of, built up the cars.

All i am relying on is that one website, british based, i think.

 

Can you shed and further information or links to sites, that you may know of, or in the same vein

Jason

 

Slightly off-topic, but:

 

We've been through all this before, haven't we? I think - honestly - that what you are trying to prove happened did not in fact happen. CAMS are asking you to prove that certain items and specs ( the 7j wheel being one of them ) was sold as standard equipment on a showroom model S30-series Z, but it didn't happen. Such items were classed as 'Sports Option' equipment, so there's a gap between what you need to prove and what it is possible to prove.

 

As discussed before, I don't think any of those Works rally cars are going to help you. They were not built to be sold to the general public, and none of them was sold new and unused to a private individual customer / privateer rally team or driver. They only made their way into private hands after being used by the Works rally team(s), so they don't count.

 

I believe the website you have been looking at is 'Z Point' (  http://www.z-point.nl/  ) and is based in the Netherlands. Owner is Guus van der Bol. I don't know any other sites in the same vein, I'm afraid. Sorry.

 

If you really want to understand the Works cars, you have to get down to the nitty gritty and do some deeper research. It's a big topic, and there's a lot more to it than collecting license plate numbers. It's really hard work, and - unfortunately - there's no one-stop, definitive, unimpeachable resource for the data you need. For me, that adds to the fascination and intrigue. These cars were not like Porsches or Fords ( or even more obscure marques like Alpine ) where you can find several in-depth books that tell you what size bolt was used on the wobble bracket that connected the blib flange to the wangle crossmember. 'Our' cars are a bit more mysterious than that.....

 

I know it's not what you want to hear, but there it is. 

[dat2kman]

Alan, with the most of respect,

( zac, sorry this is off topic)

The Chair of the Historic commission here in Australa, has not asked us to show proof of stock standard cehicles sold with all the optional items as available in spare parts dept, to be fitted to a new car.

 

He has adked us, to show proof that, Nissan as a cehicle builder at one of their facilities, anywhere in the world,

or a Nissan dealer ( they didnt)

Fitted certain items for use on public roads somewhere in the world, to new cars that had not been either sold and retro fitted, or sold and fitted out with the items from the parts list.

 

Nissan in japan, prepered new cars, with items fitted, then shipped them to other countries, and had them registered, or had them japanese registered, for use on public roads.

They were then, in some cases scrapped/pushed off boats as in the Australian events cars on return to Japan, or onsold to privateers.

 

Upon being told of the varios Z cars used for such events in aeurope/UK/Africa, the Historic commdsioner has adked to be given further infirmation.

This is a psitive breakthrough for us here in Australua.

Other makes of cars have had very dubious and vague allowances based on heresay, runour and a letter or two from some obsure new car deaker, claiming they fitted such and such to this or that.

 

MG as a manufacturer, NEVER fitted a 45 DCOE Weber to a MGB, but just one dealer fitted a scant half dizen to new cars and sold them, Not a factory option, not fitted by factory.

Porsche dealer in Sustrala fitted 74-76 2.7 and 3.0 model with 7"-8" rims, factory did not, subsequently Porsche now run 7/8's.

 

If we can show, and confirm, that Nissan at a plant, department, duvision, whatever, actually bolted stuff to new cars, this is FAR superior to the MGB/Porsche argument.

 

Did Nissan do this?

What do you know?

I know nothing about the factory rally cars!

I do know they were new cars, and not built for circuit racing, as a "competition variant", but were built for use on public roads, just like any other car would be used.

 

Or do we just have to rely on one source, the Netherlands website!

Another source of information/confirmation will back up the Netherlands website.

 

Once again, we have been asked,

" show proof that the Nissan factory, or a dealer, fitted these items to a car"

Thats it, pretty simple, the commision chair is well known to me, he knows what we are trying to do, the above, his, statement, is very clear.

 

Did Nissan fit the items from rhe "options catalogue" to cars in their pissession?

 

Thank you Alan,

And sorry Zac, but you know how passionate i am about the racing!

[dat2kman]

I think we have cluttered up this poor guys thred enough. Maybe it should be moved to its own thred

 

No, i am sure Zac wont mind, as a young but very enthusiadtic Z owner, i would like to think he is getting great insight into the vagaries and variety of what we all do, and own, and are pasdionate about!!!

[HS30-H]

The Chair of the Historic commission here in Australa, has not asked us to show proof of stock standard cehicles sold with all the optional items as available in spare parts dept, to be fitted to a new car.

 

He has adked us, to show proof that, Nissan as a cehicle builder at one of their facilities, anywhere in the world,

or a Nissan dealer ( they didnt)

Fitted certain items for use on public roads somewhere in the world, to new cars that had not been either sold and retro fitted, or sold and fitted out with the items from the parts list.

 

Nissan in japan, prepered new cars, with items fitted, then shipped them to other countries, and had them registered, or had them japanese registered, for use on public roads.

 

Once again, we have been asked,

" show proof that the Nissan factory, or a dealer, fitted these items to a car"

Thats it, pretty simple, the commision chair is well known to me, he knows what we are trying to do, the above, his, statement, is very clear.

 

Did Nissan fit the items from rhe "options catalogue" to cars in their pissession?

 

And with the greatest of respect, I think the situation is not as easy to resolve as you make it sound. As far as I understand it ( from previous discussions ) it all hinges not on 'proof of use' but on 'proof of sale' ( to the general public ).

 

From what you have described above ( which I don't think is the whole story... ) you already have the "proof" at your fingertips. Such cars were rallied by the Works team in your own backyard. That is to say, on Australian soil, in events such as the Southern Cross Rally and Dulux International Rally. Seek out period photographs of the cars from local Australian professional photographers, and you will have all you need. If it is indeed as simple as that....

[bullzed]

No, i am sure Zac wont mind, as a young but very enthusiadtic Z owner, i would like to think he is getting great insight into the vagaries and variety of what we all do, and own, and are pasdionate about!!!

 

I concur 

 

I'm open minded to whatever opinions/information/facts/beliefs people wanna put forward. I'm only 19, I know it's hard to believe but I don't know everything! 

[zzzzed]

[quote  I'm only 19, I know it's hard to believe but I don't know everything! 

 

That's something I never thought I would hear a teenager say 

[bullzed]

Few things have changed since last post. Came across a legitimate EVA racing wing on YAJ and have since fitted it. Picked up a pair of side skirts however the rear wheels sit too far into the guard to run them. Once I space the rear wheels out 20mm, I'll probably end up running the skirts, don't know how they'll look.

 

Also have an underspoiler arriving Monday.

 

 

 

 

Also bought these as well.

 

 

Yay life.

[.]

You are getting famous :-)

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/113140-good-article-for-us-22-guys/

[bullzed]

Haha, thanks for the link Greg. I've never been on HybridZ but I'll have to introduce myself at least!

[sexual_sushi]

Haha, thanks for the link Greg. I've never been on HybridZ but I'll have to introduce myself at least!

 

Haha how have you never been on Hybrid? I thought you kids were born with the internet