Thoughts On Left Hand Vs. Right Hand Drive Z

[Webby]

Hi all,

 

First time poster so hopefully this is the most appropriate section, please let me know if not.

 

I'm a huge fan of the 240Z and for a long time have been hoping to one day own one. Only recently have I considered myself to be financially capable of seriously considering it, so naturally I'm starting to look into the market!

 

One thing I've noticed is that there seems to be a larger market in the USA, and though I haven't spent much time understanding the costs of importing vehicles, some of them look great and reasonably priced. 

 

Aside from all of the hurdles and risks associated with purchasing something from overseas, I was hoping to hear from anyone with experience owning or driving a left-hand drive vehicle. I'd very much like to own something I can frequently enjoy driving, and am concerned that the inconvenience of LHD would be a deal-breaker.

 

I've obviously got a lot more reading of regulations to do as well, but some early thoughts would be much appreciated!

 

Many thanks

 

[gav240z]

I drove a LHD car when I was in SFO. Personally don't see it as a huge deal. If I wanted a 240z and couldn't pay today's prices in Oz I'd import 1 myself.

[reverendzed]

LHD is easy to get used to!  After living in the US, I found that it took very little time to get used to it.  If you are looking to import for personal use (not for immediate resale) it is a cheaper option.  LHD Zeds are not getting the attention or dollars that the RHD Zeds see.  Import cost is around $2500 AU (shipping) + dock charges and GST - all up adding a possible $5K+ AU to your US purchase price.  I own 2 LHD vehicles here in OZ and have zero problems.  I think with most states anything older than 30 years can remain LHD.  Also take into account what you have to do for compliance but it's normally only new seat belts and adjustment of the headlight alignment.

Cheers,

Rev.

[gilltech]

I concur with Reverendzed's comments. I have had a LHD Mustang for the past twenty years & for very occasional use it's not too much of an issue. There are times when it's problematic when making turns & merging into traffic etc due to literally sitting on the 'wrong' side of the car as you just cannot see surrounding traffic as well. It was easy with my convertible as I had a 360 degree view with the roof down; but not that great with my fastback due to the large side pillars. [i've never tried a 'drive through']. However, I prefer to keep my 'Stangs original & not convert to RHD so therefore I just have to cope with the occasional downside.

If I were to import a LHD 240/260/280Z though, I would seriously consider converting it to RHD for reasons of practicality, & with a small eye on resale too. Unlike the Mustangs, with the Zeds built in both LHD & RHD form conversion from the former to the latter is more straightforward although there is still a fair amount of work involved & RHD-specific parts to be obtained, not to mention compliance hurdles to jump over.

With many of the Zeds in this part of the world suffering from rust issues & an under-supply, it may get to the stage where a sun-baked Zed ex a dry US state is an attractive & practical proposition, although there's not an infinite number of those available either.

As ever it really comes down to personal choice & a careful assessment of the true costs involved for a given scenario.

Edited August 23, 2016 by gilltech

[Webby]

Thanks for the input, I've driven a little in the US where it didn't take long to adjust, but your comments gilltech around having less visibility by sitting closer to the curb is my main concern! Still, I think I'll keep an eye out for opportunities both LHD and RHD - if I end up purchasing something LHD I'll probably aim to accumulate RHD-specific parts to enable a conversion further down the road.

 

Thanks Rev for the rough estimate on extra cost.

[gilltech]

Take a look at the Aus Customs website to find out the costs involved with landing a car here. Even if you are exempt import duty, you'll still be hit with GST applied to the vehicle's purchase price or assessed value plus it's shipping & insurance cost to get here.

Add purchase price in foreign $$$, transport to a foreign port & possibly storage, plus the actual shipping fee & insurance for the vehicle across the oceans, port fees at this end plus trucking, & costs can add up pretty fast. You need to do your homework thoroughly to avoid costly surprises.

Make sure you have it's import approval to hand before you ship a given vehicle.

[cracker]

Visibility and re-sale seem to me to be the only real concerns - I'm yet to hear of the physical difference ever being an issue once you are familiar with shifting with your right hand.

 

If you don't ever plan to sell the car or have no interest it's long term value going up (as the genuine RHD's seem to be doing) then you're just left with visibility...

[Cozza]

Would it be feasible to turn a left hooker into a right. I realise there's a dash, rack and a couple other bits and bobs you'd need to buy but i wouldn't have thought it would be out of the question. And, possibly cheaper.

[gav240z]

Visibility and re-sale seem to me to be the only real concerns - I'm yet to hear of the physical difference ever being an issue once you are familiar with shifting with your right hand.

 

If you don't ever plan to sell the car or have no interest it's long term value going up (as the genuine RHD's seem to be doing) then you're just left with visibility...

 

How about HLS30's are a bit watered down? 3.5 ratio diff, 4 speed box. Different springs and suspension (softer). More emissions gear, air pump and messier manifolds due to smog equipment. 73 240z's had bigger bumpers (not that great to look at), flat top SU carbs that everyone loves.

 

Of course easy enough to change those things mind you, but it adds up.

[gilltech]

It's more feasible than with LHD cars that were never built RHD, so always an option. Need RHD dash & controls, firewall bracketry, steering rack, flip the engine bay components & wiring loom, wipers moved & reversed, RHD headlamps.....

[gav240z]

Would it be feasible to turn a left hooker into a right. I realise there's a dash, rack and a couple other bits and bobs you'd need to buy but i wouldn't have thought it would be out of the question. And, possibly cheaper.

 

Yes of course, but there is a reason not many have done it...

 

RHD dashboards are rare and hard to find now (especially 240z or early S30Z ones).

Different wiper configuration and cowl panel.

Firewall would need to be cut out and patched.

Pedal boxes are different.

Steering column cowl and combination switches (you know they are a fortune now).

Tail lamp wiring + you may need to convert to amber turn signals. (expensive if looking for originals not reproductions)

Headlamps will point wrong way.

I suspect steering racks are different.

 

Once you factor in the following:

1. Cost of vehicle (USD to AUD conversion rates)

2. Shipping and import duties.

3. Cost of conversion

4. Risks involved with bringing in a 40 year old 240z with unknown restoration / repair work.

 

You don't really save any money on buying a good HS30.

 

If I was to do it, I personally would not bother with the LHD to RHD conversion... it's not worth the cost. Considering it's not likely to be your daily driver.

[daretobedifferent]

If you're going to be driving it everyday, look for a RHD one. A LHD one is just too annoying on roads designed for RHD vehicles.

 

Like anything, a left to right conversion can be done, but is it really worth it? Taking into account all the other costs like Gav said, you're not really going to save any money.

 

Also, if a car was manufactured in both LHD and RHD, I would just look to buy a RHD one. 

[gav240z]

The other thing to consider is value, RHD examples seem to hold more value given that so few were made. Kind of like a DeLorean they made the majority in LHD, only about 12 in RHD so they seem to be quite desirable / sort after.

 

The RHD S30Z's will probably always be valued higher as a result of so few being made.

[gilltech]

All good points. And the reality is that a converted car will always be just that. Not 'original'.

However, if a rust-free dry car can be imported at the right price, then it may well be a viable proposition. Depends on the purchase price!

The 'RHD' components should be available without too much trouble, after all, they're not the parts that rust away - it's mainly the body shell that deteriorates, or gets written off in a crash. As long as someone has got those parts stashed away instead of them going to the dump or crusher with the shell.....

But, the problem with 'sun-baked' 'dry state' cars like Mustangs I've seen, is that while the body shell & metals & glass can be in well preserved condition, all the soft trim, plastic & rubber components are typically dry rotted beyond restoration. Not an issue for at least the early years of Mustangs when all the interior parts & trims etc are easily available from numerous vendors, but could be a big issue with a Zed in trying to source good condition used replacements of the correct year/colour/spec, & with very little OEM Zed stuff being re-manufactured.

[Six_Shooter]

LHD, all I buy are LHD cars...

Oh wait, that's probably because I live in Canada.

 

There are some really good solid cars in the US, so it might be worth while to still consider a LHD car. However, if you are planning to convert it to RHD upon delivery of the car, then factor in the conversion cost, which you may find that a local RHD car might be the same or less cost.

[gav240z]

Personally having seen a few S30Z's in the US up close and personal and "Californian" cars at that. I'd probably inspect the car in person myself, so that means flying over, booking hotels, doing a road trip and going to see a few cars to determine how rusty they are or for that matter how good the bodywork is. Or employ someone in the US to inspect the car(s) on your behalf.

 

All the costs add up, I was very close to buying 2 left hand drive 240z's.

 

This Safari Gold car. It looked great in photos, but I managed to contact the previous owner who said the car was NOT being described accurately. The car had fallen through with a couple of buyers on eBay previous to that. I could see evidence of relatively big front-end prang

https://goo.gl/photos/PAgdce5y3pyXwE3T7

 

I didn't like the seller much (Real Estate agent) and he was pretty aggressive - I actually shared the emails with George who had a few choice words to say about him, but I thought I'd go against my better judgement and ignore the owner and look at just the car as it is... I had it independently inspected by someone in Florida (where the car was located).

 

http://expertautoappraisals.com/1971-datsun-240z/

 

Password: gavindoolan

 

You can see from the photos the front end of the car has had a knock on the driver side, looking at the radiator support it's obvious it's been unpicked at least to some degree..

 

It was enough to put me off buying it, which in hindsight it probably was still a good car for the price being asked but I went with gut instinct and walked away...

 

The second car seemed a bit more 'honest' than the first.

 

https://goo.gl/photos/X3jTgANFS9WdbLXb6

 

This car was a June 1970 car which still had the 2400 OHC cover and all the early girl features. The seller had sold the original Topy's sadly... I knew the paint work was a quick blow over but I saw the before photos.

 

I actually woke up about 5 mins too late to bid on it. It was 4am on a Sunday morning when the auction ended and I got cold feet and didn't put in a snipe bid. So I woke up and watched it sell for a price that was very cheap, even back then...

 

The owner funny enough send me a video of him doing a bit of a burnout up the road in it. Not sure if that was meant to impress me or not? But it was funny.

 

Anyway knowing what I know about these cars and the numerous questionable repairs and respray's most of them have had over the years I decided to pull the pin on a HLS30 import in the end. I still think it's worth pursuing but you have to be pretty careful and know what you're getting yourself into (assume the worst!). You'll be fine.

[cracker]

How about HLS30's are a bit watered down? 3.5 ratio diff, 4 speed box. Different springs and suspension (softer). More emissions gear, air pump and messier manifolds due to smog equipment. 73 240z's had bigger bumpers (not that great to look at), flat top SU carbs that everyone loves.

 

Of course easy enough to change those things mind you, but it adds up.

 

Fair point - didn't consider many of those things, and some I was not even aware of! (I obviously don't have interest in LHD haha...)

[Webby]

All really useful perspectives, thanks for sharing your thoughts and gav for the photos and story. I think at this stage my preference would certainly be a local RHD version, but I will keep myself open to imports. It wouldn't be a daily driver, but frequent enough for the convenience to be worth a reasonable uplift in price. The ones I've found currently for sale are a bit too steep for me now though! I'll be patient and cautious. 

[cracker]

All really useful perspectives, thanks for sharing your thoughts and gav for the photos and story. I think at this stage my preference would certainly be a local RHD version, but I will keep myself open to imports. It wouldn't be a daily driver, but frequent enough for the convenience to be worth a reasonable uplift in price. The ones I've found currently for sale are a bit too steep for me now though! I'll be patient and cautious. 

 

Don't be too patient - prices aren't exactly headed south

[gilltech]

If you find the right car, you'd best leap in & buy it before someone else does. Otherwise you'll still be in the same position in a year's time, two year's time, getting even further behind. Prices for Zeds are steadily heading north not south.

People come on this forum on a regular basis bemoaning the fact that they think Zed prices are too steep & can't find one at the price they think they're worth, but the blunt reality is that they are stuck in the past with yesterday's values. So at that rate the chances of getting one are few & far between.

Edited August 31, 2016 by gilltech

[CBR Jeff]

I should have done a lot of things when they were less expensive but I didn't. I could have purchased a house in a top lake side suburb in Canberra in the mid 1980 when it was for sale for under $50,000 (over $2,000,000 now). I should have purchased a coast house on the beach when it was under $40,000 in the late 1980's (well over $1,5000,000 now). Should have purchased every C110 skyline I could have for $100 in the 1980's. Should have purchased more BHP when it was under $10 before it went way north in the late 1990's. Should have could have... story of life.........

I will say that you get nowhere by sitting around looking....

Jeff

[chris240]

^^^ haha sounds identical to me..

[Knight240Z]

 

 

I didn't like the seller much (Real Estate agent) and he was pretty aggressive - I actually shared the emails with George who had a few choice words to say about him, but I thought I'd go against my better judgement and ignore the owner and look at just the car as it is... I had it independently inspected by someone in Florida (where the car was located).

 

 

 

Its so funny you would say that Gavin, It’s a small world but after seeing the first picture he took of the car I know it was the same guy! I met this guy when I was in Florida! And I can confirm everything you say mate and it was a very wise decision you made there.

 

He is originally from Norway btw, he has been dealing with Datsun's since a long time in the US. Buying, doing some works "cheap and fast" in his small shop and then selling. I was looking at another car he had which was a 72 blue 240Z and after talking with him on the phone and from all the answers and stories he gave me I decided to drive to his "part time hobby shop and not his full time thing for sure" north of Fort Lauderdale which was not too far for me around an hour and a half on the highway.

So I go there with my hopes up and I can tell you he is really good in hiding things and will never tell you the correct story. He will tell you many stories, for hours… and hours to keep you distracted I think but never the truth. (One of the things he told me then that he just sold a Golden Zed to a guy in Singapore, I assume it must be this one if you're interested to know where it ended up)

Anyways long story short, the car I went to see was an absolute scam and way overpriced, he painted the car from the bottom up to cover what he can and nothing was what he described, as it was knocked from the front very badly and the interior and electrical wiring were a mess with so many changes you will not imagine, so I walked away from that headache even when he was willing to sell for much less than what he asked for.

 

On this topic, I was looking for a 240Z in Oz for a long time and after much thought and research I finally imported my car from the US. So far I must say it's been rather a good experience, but there are some costs involved to be considered. The majority I would say is the shipping and GST but other than that you have to pay VASS, RW and some other things that popup along the way but it's not too much. (In the end there are some good cars in the US that don’t have as much rust problems and are still undervalued)

 

I will never thing of converting to RHD as, 1- it’s a shame to hake in to it and it will never be to the same value/originality of an original RHD, 2- Driving a LHD on a nice weekend in the city or up the Blue Mountains will never be less of an amazing experience not because it’s a LHD or a RHD but just because it’s a Zed and trust me it's not much of a difference (it will feel a bit strange the first few times you go in a roundabout, but there is an advantage when stopping on a traffic light next to a nice girl driving another car and your just that much closer ). And 3- for me I don’t think I would ever want to sell, not today and hopefully I would not need to anytime soon.

[gav240z]

Yep exactly the same guy and same car, put the hard sell on me saying if you don't act now some bloke in Sweden is gonna buy it you'll be sorry etc.. I saw the Blue 240z advertised later on and realised he was just flipping cars.

 

I tend to go with gut instinct these days, so I'm glad your story backs up my hunch. I guess when you've dealt with shonky folks for long enough you know the signs. I learnt my lessons the expensive way unfortunately, but at least I learnt them young!

 

I could definitely see a hard front end whack and poor repair job on it. Lots of bog too, judging by the paint depth meter readings in those photos.

 

The cost of inspection was $300 USD, but it probably saved me much more. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

 

You can definitely still find good deals in North America for 240z's, just gotta be vigilant and it helps to have a contact over there. Which I do now.

 

I know a guy who comes across many 'projects' and I've often thought of importing them but the interest in LHD here has turned me off doing it.

 

I will be in the US again late October so I'll be able to look at a couple in person. (always much better that way).

[Knight240Z]

 There are many places that do the full inspection now with hundreds of pictures but it's still that much better when your there to see the car and make the move! And trust me I have seen a lot of "project cars" in the US where things have been done that no one in their right mind will want to inherit.

 

I think the interest in LHD may change in the future for some "low rusted" cars (I try not to say rust free) but you're correct in saying that it's not there now.