Early Girl Bingo - With Photos

[gav240z]

Another interesting observation and why I need to get this information into a CSV.

 

HS30-00117 = L24-015308

HS30-00121 = L24-015267

HS30-00131 = L24-015467

HS30-00145 = L24-015251

HS30-00149 = L24-015356

HS30-00150 = L24-015253

HS30-00151 = L24-015084

HS30-00155 = L24-014692

HS30-00160 = L24-015329

 

Attached is a photo of the engine block L24-015356 from #149. Which indicates a September 1970 casting date.

 

It kind of goes without saying, but these cars must have been assembled very close together. Other cars have larger gaps. But you can see that the engine numbers are all over the place.

 

Example: The engine in #150 was made or at least assigned a block no. before the blocks in #121 and #117.

 

@Craig if you're watching. I see here:

http://www.wazregister.com/index.php?title=View_ANZIS30_Register

 

It mentions Eng. no for HS30 0004 is unknown. However Carl Becky recorded this here:

http://www.zhome.com/IZCC/ZRegisters/classicHS.htm

 

L24 003605 (which says made January 1970). Since blocks can be out of whack with chassis numbers etc.. It's possible the shell of HS30 0004 was made in 1969, but didn't receive a block and block no. until January 1970. Of course don't take it as the gospel but it's a possibility.

[Paul_S]

All great info!

 

It would be useful to get it all into a google doc and give us reader access perhaps

[HS30-H]

It mentions Eng. no for HS30 0004 is unknown. However Carl Becky recorded this here:

http://www.zhome.com/IZCC/ZRegisters/classicHS.htm

 

L24 003605 (which says made January 1970). Since blocks can be out of whack with chassis numbers etc.. It's possible the shell of HS30 0004 was made in 1969, but didn't receive a block and block no. until January 1970. Of course don't take it as the gospel but it's a possibility.

 

Gavin,

I would take the 'data' and opinion on zhome.com relating to the the HS30-prefixed cars with a very large pinch of salt if I were you. For a very, very long time Carl was adamant that no HS30-prefixed cars had been made in 1969. None. It appeared to be a key part of his whole "American Car, Made in Japan" philosophy. He appeared to want to marginalise the RHD cars in any way possible and was certainly biased against them in his thinking. 

 

Myself and a couple of others were sure that this was not the case and tried to argue the point many time. Even Nissan's own factory documentation showed that HS30-0001, HS30-0002 and HS30-0003 were manufactured before the end of 1969. It was not until 'Kats' Endo got the unimpeachable prototype and early production data from Nissan Shatai that Carl changed his tune a little.

 

Like I say, tread carefully...

[HS30-H]

By the way, we should not be surprised that engine numbers seem to be out of sequence with car body numbers. The bodies were made and numbered at Nissan Shatai's Hiratsuka plant, and the cars were assembled there too. However the engines - and most of the other componentry for that matter - was built elsewhere and shipped to the Hiratsuka plant vie truck and train. No great effort was made to keep engine numbers linear, as long as they were the right type/spec and went into the correct sub-variant of S30 being built. It's only natural that they got jumbled up to some extent. 

[PB260Z]

No great effort was made to keep engine numbers linear, as long as they were the right type/spec and went into the correct sub-variant of S30 being built. It's only natural that they got jumbled up to some extent.

 

Excuse my ignorance, but was that spec L24 being fitted into any other models at that time ? Edited February 5, 2017 by PB260Z

[gav240z]

Excuse my ignorance, but was that spec L24 being fitted into any other models at that time ?

The Nissan Super 6 Cedric's (130's) had an L24 and E30 head. I think the E30 head had smaller ports than the E31. E30 was also fitted to L20A's I believe.

 

Later L24s would be fitted to Datsun 240K's with their L24's.

http://www.earlydatsun.com/nissan130mk5.html

[PB260Z]

Thanks, guessing that the L24s came out of the same foundry and some went to be fiited into Zs and some into other models.

[HS30-H]

Thanks, guessing that the L24s came out of the same foundry and some went to be fiited into Zs and some into other models.

 

Not only that, but there were different sub-variants of L24 engine depending on market/region/period. Lots of small differences in bolt-on parts and ancillaries. Some regions got lots of anti-smog equipment too. All those different units were built up elsewhere and then shipped into the Hiratsuka plant for Nissan Shatai to install them on the production line. 

[PB260Z]

Thanks, that makes sense that there would we countless variants. That also aligns with current production practices.

[gav240z]

Alan, did the E31 casting code blocks precede the P30 blocks? The reason I ask is that on the Cedric group on Facebook a few said they had P30 blocks with E30 heads. It would seem odd to me that sequential L24 blocks would have different casting codes.

 

For example: Just taking 2 random block numbers (not sure what they are in reality).

 

L24 - 014XXX1 (E31)

L24 - 014XXX2 (P30)

 

Would it be possible to see something like this? Or would they have all been E31 before switching to P30.

 

I would think that the casting code would change only when the cast was updated (due to maybe improvement sin casting process). Therefore all early L24 blocks should be E31 cast.

 

Someone mentioned that E31 blocks were for L24s fitted to 240z's only. But I think this is a furphy.

[HS30-H]

Lots of difficult questions there.

 

With the caveat that I'm not necessarily the oracle of all things: E30 (L20/A) came before E31 (L24), then came P30. I can't imagine that transition from one block casting type to another would be black and white (I'd expect a little bit of crossover, even if it was only for a very short time) and I can't imagine sequential block numbering crossing from one type to the other unless it crossed back again occasionally (chaos theory...) whilst they were in the process of changing from one block casting to the next.

 

Ideally you'd expect Nissan to draw a clear line in engine numbering between one block casting series and the next, but maybe they didn't? Perhaps we are in danger of misunderstanding the situation because we are only civilians looking in from the outside. Why did Nissan stamp individual numbers on the blocks? Well, for obvious reasons they needed to give each 'engine' its own identity but perhaps we are mistaken in expecting to understand/identify them solely by what we see on the cars/engines?

I'd expect Nissan to have tagged/labelled each engine as it was built, identifying destination/sub-variant/market etc etc and that data was lost when it went into the car at each different assembly plant. Essentially that info wouldn't be needed any more once the engine was married with its recipient car. I keep thinking of Nissan's internal-use chassis suffix codes like the 'S', 'D', 'A' etc, used on documentation and systems, but not seen anywhere on the cars themselves. Something like that. 

 

I realise that for many people this kind of thing is all pointless 'rivet counting', but there's always something to be learned from it. We don't even know what we don't know!    

[Gordo]

Another interesting observation and why I need to get this information into a CSV.HS30-00117 = L24-015308HS30-00121 = L24-015267HS30-00131 = L24-015467HS30-00145 = L24-015251HS30-00149 = L24-015356HS30-00150 = L24-015253HS30-00151 = L24-015084HS30-00155 = L24-014692HS30-00160 = L24-015329Attached is a photo of the engine block L24-015356 from #149. Which indicates a September 1970 casting date.It kind of goes without saying, but these cars must have been assembled very close together. Other cars have larger gaps. But you can see that the engine numbers are all over the place.Example: The engine in #150 was made or at least assigned a block no. before the blocks in #121 and #117.@Craig if you're watching. I see here:http://www.wazregister.com/index.php?title=View_ANZIS30_RegisterIt mentions Eng. no for HS30 0004 is unknown. However Carl Becky recorded this here:http://www.zhome.com/IZCC/ZRegisters/classicHS.htmL24 003605 (which says made January 1970). Since blocks can be out of whack with chassis numbers etc.. It's possible the shell of HS30 0004 was made in 1969, but didn't receive a block and block no. until January 1970. Of course don't take it as the gospel but it's a possibility.

 

 

Hi guys, came across some interesting information the other day. All this engine number ,chassis number and compliance plate stuff.

The story goes, there where about 200 240zeds made in 1969 , but Datsun were worried they might not be a big selling car. And these cars were stored in big sheds until they had firm sales. so as they where taken of the production line the cars where stored in these wearhouses , first car to the back and so on. Two zeds were taken to the USA and were an instant hit. But as we know the first zeds had faulty crankshafts. So all the finished zeds had to have new cranks fitted . Engines where taken out and refitted, who knows what order they went back in.

The first cars to have the new cranks fitted went in the cars that where nearest the front of the storage sheds, not the first cars built they where at the back. As these cars where ready to ship over seas they where the first to hit the USA . But numbers all out of sink. Compliance plates where not fitted until the new engines where finished,. Hense, 1970.

This seems to fit the irregular number patterns. And the stories about the 1969 zeds.

[HS30-H]

Hi guys, came across some interesting information the other day. All this engine number ,chassis number and compliance plate stuff.

The story goes, there where about 200 240zeds made in 1969 , but Datsun were worried they might not be a big selling car. And these cars were stored in big sheds until they had firm sales. so as they where taken of the production line the cars where stored in these wearhouses , first car to the back and so on. Two zeds were taken to the USA and were an instant hit. But as we know the first zeds had faulty crankshafts. So all the finished zeds had to have new cranks fitted . Engines where taken out and refitted, who knows what order they went back in.

The first cars to have the new cranks fitted went in the cars that where nearest the front of the storage sheds, not the first cars built they where at the back. As these cars where ready to ship over seas they where the first to hit the USA . But numbers all out of sink. Compliance plates where not fitted until the new engines where finished,. Hense, 1970.

This seems to fit the irregular number patterns. And the stories about the 1969 zeds.

 

Not sure where that came from, but it's not entirely accurate.

 

I don't think there were many - if any - cars that had engines removed, cranks changed, engines then replaced. As far as I'm aware the earliest 1969-production L24-engined cars were shipped with the 'faulty' (harmonic balance problem) cranks, and didn't have engines changed. The crank design was updated and the updated design was installed in engines as they came on stream.

 

Nissan Shatai had built a total of 543 'Export' model (L24-engined) S30-series Zs by the end of calendar year 1969, compared with a total of 969 'Domestic' model (L20A-engined and S20-engined)  S30-series Zs for the same period. It seems clear that production of L24-engined models was stopped/slowed whilst a few issues were ironed out and production started to ramp up to capacity in the early part of 1970.

 

Apart from HS30-0001, HS30-0002 and HS30-0003 (and possibly HS30-0004) it seems unlikely that the crank issues affected HS30-prefixed cars.

[gav240z]

Apart from HS30-0001, HS30-0002 and HS30-0003 (and possibly HS30-0004) it seems unlikely that the crank issues affected HS30-prefixed cars.

 

According to Zhome.com (and I know you say don't take it as the gospel)

http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/EarlyCrank.htm

 

Engines with serial numbers greater than L24 003607 received the newer design crankshafts.

 

The L24 in HS30 0004 was L24-003605 so it should have the early style crankshaft. I know someone who has worked on HS30 0004 in the past and may know for sure.

[HS30-H]

 

According to Zhome.com (and I know you say don't take it as the gospel)

http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/EarlyCrank.htm

 

 

There's a perfect example of how zhome can have both useful and misleading information on the same page. BRE didn't receive a 240Z to start preparing as a race car until well into 1970. Just off the top of my head I think it was March 1970 or later, and of course they would need time to start building and developing race engines and dynoing them before they had any crank counterweighting-related failures.

 

Nissan were certainly aware of the L24 crank problem by October 1969, and were already working on a re-design. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by HS30-H

[gav240z]

Yes I read about it in Hitoshi Uemura's book re: harmonic issues in the motor.

http://www.lulu.com/shop/hitoshi-uemura/datsun-240z-engineering-development/paperback/product-22879948.html

 

I had also read about the engine number cut over (with exact number given) from a thread on Classiczcars.com that Kat's contributed to, but I'm having a hard time finding it again. Hence I went with the Zhome.com reference as it matched up with what my memory recalled.

[gav240z]

A bit more info about HS30 00013, it appears to have given up it's soul to restore #16. I met with Mike (Nzeder) the other night in Sydney. We briefly chatted about it.

 

I also found some posts from 2010 where he mentioned it also.

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/topic/5358-low-number-zed-in-unique-cars/?p=60554

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/topic/3562-432-for-sale-in-nsw/?p=38578

[gav240z]

Also I don't think we have any records of HS30 00325 yet.

http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/16788-for-sale-196970-240z/

 

I wonder if Tyronne still has it?

[curtis 240z]

I'm pretty sure this car (#325) is living out near Penrith and is currently undergoing a resto Gav.

[Mr Camouflage]

@Craig if you're watching. I see here:

http://www.wazregister.com/index.php?title=View_ANZIS30_Register

 

It mentions Eng. no for HS30 0004 is unknown. However Carl Becky recorded this here:

http://www.zhome.com/IZCC/ZRegisters/classicHS.htm

 

 

Thanks, will update the register soon

[gav240z]

HS30 10181 is up for auction. Grade R. Currently has L28 in it.
http://www.j-spec.com.au/auction/1988orolder/1971-Nissan-Fairladyz-8638238.html

 

Starting bid: 1,480,000 JPY

 

[GongZ]

AusZcar member 'road rider' has #268 and the 'remains' of #351

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/topic/15857-nearly-20-years-of-dust-gone/?do=findComment&comment=188737

[gav240z]

AusZcar member 'road rider' has #268 and the 'remains' of #351

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/topic/15857-nearly-20-years-of-dust-gone/?do=findComment&comment=188737

 

Thanks, we've already been discussing #268 over sms #351 is a bit sad. But someone might save it in future.

[neRok]

Also I don't think we have any records of HS30 00325 yet.

http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/16788-for-sale-196970-240z/

 

I wonder if Tyronne still has it?

 

I happened to be flicking through an old Unique Cars mag and found it in there (as referred in this thread actually).

Edited April 11, 2017 by neRok

[gav240z]

HS30 00212 added to first page.

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/gallery/album/385-hs30-00212/

 

Owner is member Kent