Quote to get carbies fitted - is this reasonable?

[Chuckles]

Back in 2009 when I bought my Z, I didn't really know enough about them (only that they are the sexiest cars I had ever seen). What I thought was a 240Z turned out to be a JDM imported Fairlady Z with a L20 motor and a terrible carby setup. It's a single carby with a big ugly round airbox on top. A few months ago I bought a set of SU type carbies with airbox for $200, hoping they would help my performance. I took some photos and sent them to Lindsay at the Z shop here in melbourne. He said he could fit them. I then replied about a rough cost to fit them, and he replied with the total cost as $1,165. My first thought was that sounded very expensive (I was expecting less than half that, even though that expectation wasn't really based off anything). Below is the information and cost breakdown he sent to me in the email...

 

Hi Martin,

 

We charge $99 per hour + parts.

 

To overhaul & bench set the carbies - remove your existing manifold & carbies - check/repair broken studs in head (maybe remove & refit exhaust manifold) - remove/refit centre console & fit the appropriate twin choke mechanism - reinstate rod linkage set up from gas pedal to carburetors - fit & route twin carburetor recirculating fuel system - fit, road test & tune carburetors  ~ 8 hours = $792

 

Supply 2 carburetor overhaul kits                        $70

Supply 240Z fuel rail hoses & clamps                      $88     

Supply 240Z twin choke cable assembly            $88              (no choke knobs in stock)

Supply 240Z gas pedal to carb linkage assembly  $88             

Supply new air cleaner element                    $19

Gaskets                                              $20

 

Labour                                                $792 

 

Total                                                        $1,165

 

 

So considering the work that would be involved, does this actually sound reasonable? I understand all the extra parts that I will need to get this thing correctly fitted, but do you guys think there is really 8 hours of work/labour involved in installing these new carbies? Does the cost breakdown of everything sound correct? About a year ago he quoted me $3500 for 280ZX motor - fully installed, and this is about a third of that cost for what seems like a lot less than a third of the work and parts (I could be wrong).

Anyway, I would love to hear what you guys think about this. Also, I am a new member (been lurking for a while) and hopefully I'll get around to introducing myself properly in the introductions thread in the next few days. I was just hoping to get some opinions about this since I need to make a decision about this very soon.

Also, if anyone has any other suggestions on how to get these carbies fitted then I'm all ears!

Here is my current Engline setup...

Here are the new carbies...

 

Thanks.

[gav240z]

Ok so where do I start?

 

1. Yes you will need a full 240z linkage set up, fuel rail, hoses and clamps, it looks like your current set up is missing it.

 

2. You are not (I assume doing any of the work yourself?) in which case labour costs. Many of the blokes on the forum would probably give a lot of this work a shot on their own to save money.

 

However many amateur mechanics would probably make some mistakes along the way. Zshop should have years of experience and do things correctly.

 

3. The condition of those carbs you bought is unknown, they could be in great condition or require a full rebuild. There is no way of knowing if someone hasn't tried to rebuild them in the past and messed them up also. You have the flapper style airbox which I believe is not a feature seen on 240z's sold in Australia. Therefore I'm going to assume you bought them from the US on eBay?

 

4. There is a good parts break down in price on that list. Most seems reasonable to me given how rare these pieces are now. I don't know why he has an additional gaskets item there when a rebuild kit should contain them. Perhaps this is for the shared exhaust / intake gasket?

 

5. Rebuilding carbs is a bit tricky and fiddly but not something you shouldn't attempt yourself. Go to www.ztherapy.com, it's worth getting the video.

http://www.ztherapy.com/products/videos/video.htm

 

I have it and it's excellent and honestly not too difficult if you're willing to be patient. Also you can see a parts list breakdown on that site for comparison.

 

I assume the car is running how it is, even if the carby setup is a dog you can rebuild the carbs while driving the car around.

 

6. You should always get another quote there is a few guys out there like Daniel Moore for example (who used to work at Zshop) and Peter Mac (not sure if his specialty is SU's though)?

 

Looking at it, I actually don't think it's totally unreasonable myself. Zshop has to turn a profit like any business and there are certainly many unknowns with second hand bits (incomplete at that).

 

7. You could look at Triple Carb options but again a second hand set could end up costing you much more than their purchase price depending on their condition.

 

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,11895.0.html

 

Shame you didn't get on to these earlier.

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,11627.0.html

 

8. If you have the L20 still then you probably won't get much benefit from Triples although they will sound superb! .

 

Will be interested to see what others have to say?

 

 

 

 

[luvemfast]

Ditch the L20 and get a running L28 for about that price, but then you have to fit it.

Surely you can have a crack yourself? 

[PB260Z]

Hi Martin

 

I agree with Gav, that the price sounds about right for a drive in - drive out solution with no labour on your part, however a second quote could put your mind at ease.

Working on carbies is always complicated especially when changing the number or type of carbie you always find little surprises that take up plenty of time.

 

At the end of day for that money it will be done right and you will get the enjoyment straight away.

[Zedman240®]

I agree with Gavin, with the unknown history of the carbs, even if you tried installing them yourself, who knows what headaches you might get during the install; and as well all get the nasty surprises along the way. Most times it ends up costing you double than getting it done by professionals. Broken / missing manifold studs are standard so unless you know how to tackle those, a drive in, drive out thing might be the best and stress free for you.

[gav240z]

I just want to add that if you ask 10 different people about Zshop you'll get about 10 different opinions. So whilst I agree the quote is not unreasonable my experience with Zshop (over 10 years ago) is somewhat mixed. I've had good and bad experiences.

 

Another thread on here a couple of years ago cause a bit of an uproar on here and after a few emails back and forth (between Zshop and I) I was told that sometimes they outsource certain work and the quality of that outsourcing has been somewhat *mixed* between good and bad. My experience was that I purchased a reconditioned 280zx alternator with internal regulator for $120 but when I took it into my local auto electrician he informed me it had not been reconditioned but just given a quick polish on the outside.

 

Being young and a bit naive (18/19 at the time) and perhaps not knowing exactly how to handle the situation, I didn't go back to Zshop to resolve it then and there. In hindsight I should have.

 

I did also have a couple of good experiences with Zshop - for example Lindsday helped me splice the wiring to fit an oil pressure sensor to the block at no extra charge. Like an breakers though Zshop's prices on certain second hand items varied for example I was quoted $400 for a 2+2 quarter panel. Zfactory at the time only wanted $120. Do keep in mind that this was 10 years ago. 2+2's were less rare.

 

Anyway my point is, I don't want to appear to be endorsing Zshop because I've yet to go back, have a sit down and chat with them there (their suggestion based on the emails back and forth) - mainly because I've not been in the country.

 

What I would suggest to you, is that before any work is done. See if you can get some form of written guarantee that the rebuild will be to a certain standard and that they will cover any issues - should they arise due to incorrect restoration of carbs. It would also be good to know if they will refinish the carbs to look like new or just rebuild them to working condition?

 

I've heard good things about Ztherapy in the US but then again there were mixed reviews when they changed ownership some years back. But as I say the video is awesome and the quality of their rebuilt carbs is amazing (from a refinishing perspective).

[peter t]

Get a manifold from Arizona Z Car and fit a four barrel holly. Easy to do and easy to tune goes great.

[Riceburner]

I'd recommend Peter Mac, he did great work for me and many others have also had excellent work done!

[peter mc]

id like to say shore bring it in but I'm booked out till next year about feb ,

 

id also say the carbs would have to be sorted out before there fitted , and as Simon has said maybe look for a L28 that running , would be up 50hp before you start

[jamo240]

The other comments on here pretty much cover it...the price is reasonable for the scope of work.

 

For the guys who don't have much experience doing up old cars....it's an expensive exercise fellas! It's actually cheaper to fix modern cars, because the parts are easy to get, and you almost always only have to fix the actual problem you're working on. Inevitably in fixing up old cars, parts are expensive, and often aren't 'ready to go' and consume more time than anticipated in the fitting process while you sort out unexpected problems etc. It's like doing up old houses compared with building a new one..it's usually cheaper to knock down the old one and build a new one

 

Doing up old cars is expensive any way you cut it, but it's especially costly if you aren't able to do any of the work yourself, because of the many hours of labour involved and scarcity of parts. That's just how it is. So, either learn how to do it yourself, or be prepared to pay good money to have skilled tradesmen do the work for you. Pay peanuts, get monkeys....It's that simple.

 

Cheers

 

Jamo

[Chuckles]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm a complete unknown to you all and I've signed up and come in here asking for help on my first post. You owe me nothing, yet you freely share your knowledge and experience with me, and for that I'm very grateful. I am considering everyones' suggestions and opinions, hopefully I can come to a decision soon. Cheers.

I have dealt with Lindsay before, and have been happy with his services thus far. He helped me get it to roadworthy last year. A few months ago I had to go in to get a tune because it was running like a dog. He tuned it up, and tried to check the timing and realised it wasn't possible with the current setup, so fixed it up so we could actually get the timing to read properly from the opposite side of the motor. Spent about 25 minutes total helping me out. Got it running great! When I pulled out my wallet to ask how much for the fix, he refused and just said don't worry about it. I kept insisting and eventually handed him $50. 

[Gordo]

Lindsay also helped me a lot in the early days.

[Zedman240®]

Without LD's help, my second 260Z would still be a rolling shell..