Project 260Z - Stages

[mspecr]

Keep focus Mark :-).

Some times you just need a change of pace.

I'm interested to see the battery section as its close on my "to do" list.

Jeff

Will do sir !

Actually I was going to do this http://www.viczcar.com/forum/topic/10196-rudolfs-22-update-6516-video-update-give-me-feedback/?p=176480

Thou currently since i have my donor .. going to attempt to do cut that entire corner out and see if i can graft it into mine.

 

The pace of this project is unreal! My early 260 requires a similar amount of work in one respect or another, but in the 3 years I've owned it, I've done maybe 25% of what you've achieved in 3 months! Awesome work man. Don't you have a day job, woman, child or any other handbrake in your life?! Respect.

Thanks for the kind words 260NZ, haha nah I have all of them , thou I force myself to at least do a hr or two a day, more on weekends. This girl ain't going to build itself unless i get the miss's to learn to wield a grinder and the mig, - One can only dream...

 

So I decided to try to go with chopping my donor for that battery tray area / floor piece as it was in mint condition. Its worth mentioning that the later 260z floor panels have different indentations and there chassis rails are more deeper then the early versions. If this way doesn't seam to go well I will just do what Rudi did on his, and I guess the same as many others have done in a similar fashion.

 

 

 chopped.

 

 

 This inner stone guard? , was brazed, and welded on and frankly I couldn't save it. I still have a spare at least.

 

 

 I have gone over board with this approach.... thought being it all goes in once piece, the con to this is that there are many small trims that have to work to make this fit.

 

 Rough cut.

 

 Rough cut.

 

 Rough Fitment, to see what else to be trimmed.

 

 But you get the general idea. 

 

 Here in this pic you can see the different floor pan design, being a floor I'm not overly too concerned at this point, thou I have massive amounts of excess material to trim to make this work.

 

Work in progress.

[mspecr]

Resuming.. For future reference don't do it this way... You will just make so much work for yourself that's not really needed, since I do have a screw loose or two I went with it.

That old saying " if it ain't broke don't fix it " came to me later..

 

 

 Tack the firewall back in, well the replacement. not original.

 

 Pulled apart the battery tray from the firewall, happy I did as I found some surface rust hiding.

 

 

 

 tack the battery area back in.

 

 

 

 locating missing holes that was missed during welding.

 

 

 the nasty part. 

 

Overall theirs not to much left in this area, just pin holes to fill and finalize grinding..

 

On a good note my rails came in, this is actually a 2nd order as the 1st one went AWOL and is apparently being sent back to the US, according to the post office it was declined 3 times.... which was odd as I was never left a note and was to late to follow it up.

 

The Bad Dog Parts are quite solid, also they came in raw from so these do need to be prepped prior to being installed.

 

 

 

 

Just for a experiment i picked up a vibratory tumbler off flee bay for odd bolts and nuts to clean up. Worth a shot as there are many small items that I need cleaned up and If it works should save me countless hours with a wire wheel, As it only got delivered late today I only had some sandblasting media to test with, probs not the right stuff but I ll try anything these days..

 

 

 China plug !

 

 Test subjects (fixings from one front strut / brake assembly ) minus the 50 cal shell.

 

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/mspecr/1974%20Datsun%20260z%20build/repair%20progress/th_20160526_170225_zpstyyxnrqr.mp4

 

Its actually quiet, which i like, Ill keep updating random experiments with this thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PeterAllen]

I don't know how you plan to fit the gearbox mount for the Rb26 but here is something I did for my LS1 install. Rather than use the common 'bolts through the floor' technique, I fitted some sleeves to the rails prior to their installation and have mounted the gearbox mount/cross-member off them. 

[260DET]

Like that Peter, structurally ties the two rails together too, one piece that does two jobs is good engineering in my amateur book.

[mspecr]

Peter you where reading my mind , I just started brain wrenching on how I am going to tackle this and currently I have the following :

 

1 : McKinney Motorsports - Bolt in kit ( engine and gearbox ) link http://www.mckinneymotorsports.com/prod_240+260+280Z+parts

 

2 : CXracing - Bolt in kit ( engine, engine sump and gearbox ) link http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=ESK-OP-RB26-240Z&Category_Code=240Z

 

3 : Castlemain RodShop - Bolt in kit (engine and gearbox ) link http://www.rodshop.com.au/index.php/datsun/240z-260z/em081-nissan-engine-mounts.html

 

4 : Custom - Just like your brilliant example, I do like how your able to keep your twin pipes tucked well up in that tunnel.

 

5 : Custom v2  - Moving the original internal mounting frame, cut a section out and place it lower down the tunnel, mod the normal Rb / skyline to suit new location. Idea i found came from here.

link http://www.zcar.com/forum/10-70-83-tech-discussion-forum/343874-my-260z-project-awaiting-rb25-2.html

 

Comments i have thus so far on each of them.

1 . + Bolt on kit

     +/- Mild steel / power coated construction.

     +/- The have a sump to suit the RB on that same link, tailshafts, intercooler ect ect

     - Seen other threads of engine mounts failing, they look small to me.

     - I don't like how the Rb box is on more of a counter lever instead of being directly supported under it.

 

2 . + Bolt on kit plus sump !

     + Loving that massive sump flange to keep the engine rigid, also this man Adam Hutchin made a good decent review on this sump with his thoughts and opinions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szlPTCeMrus

     +/- Most reviews I have read say there quite good with a few odd saying no..

     +/- They sell other bits as well intercoolers, turbo kits exausts.. ect ect 

     + Stainless Steel construction for engine mounts and gearbox.

     + Uses OEM RB gearbox mounts

     - Same as above with the McKinney, the gear box is counter levered, this seams to be the norm for a bolt in job thou by the looks of it, it is however a thick bent plate designed to take OEM mounts. 

 

3 . + Bolt on kit

     +/- Don't have the Rb25 gearbox a ( FS5R30A ) listed on there website but can contact them about it.

     +/- Ha vent really found anything stating " how good / well " this particular kit is, Im sure some one has use them ?, feel free to chime in.

 

4. Looks easy and straight forward, supports directly under the gearbox where it needs to be and same time braces the inside chassis rail via crush tubes, what more can you ask for , The only question that comes to mind would be,  the consulting engineer.. ( yet to find one ) would he /she accept this method ?. Reason being as i didn't list any body modifications in my application to DPI..

 

5. Similar to question 4. body mod and DPI.

 

Overall all of them need some sort of mod to fix / adjust / tune, just haven't decided yet.

 

[260DET]

Using crush tubes to mount something big and solid is pretty common OE eg front X member to the chassis rails, S chassis diff mount. Can't see an engineer knocking that method of attachment back.

[PeterAllen]

...,  the consulting engineer.. ( yet to find one ) ...

 

That's a very risky approach. 

 

I'd suggest you engage one soon and set out all you propose to undertake and get his response. They all seem to have their own idiosyncrasies and you are best to know what they are

 

Mine wants door intrusion bars and a high mounted stop-light, neither are required on a 1972 car, BUT, he is allowing a whole range of modifications which others may question. I've contacted him on numerous occasion (in writing - email) to seek his determination on this and that. He dropped by to see the car finish welded on the rotisserie and he was pleased with what had been done. I know when I finally submit the car it will only be a matter of workmanship that he will review,

 

You shouldn't have to pay all the fees upfront, I didn't.

 

Oh, nearly forgot. By engaging sooner rather than later they end up giving you free consulting advice, not simply the approval. When you set out before them what you propose to do they can sometimes offer alternatives, based on their experience, which can save you time and money..

Edited May 28, 2016 by PeterAllen

[mspecr]

 ... Straight to the priority list then, will start hunting down a engineer 1st thing Monday. Appreciate the heads up Peter.

[260DET]

Choice of engineer is crucial, some of them forget who they are working for. My 280ZX V6 engine and gearbox conversion was pretty well completed by the time one was engaged, presentation is all important as is the quality of work of course. 

[PB260Z]

Last time I used an engineer I spoke to a couple before I found one was actually interested in helping me achieve the end goal, not just getting another consulting job.

Working with Bruce on the car was a stress free experience. Unfortunately he has since retired.

 

In short, I would suggest you almost interview them, albeit subtlety, and go with one you feel comfortable with. Investing a little bit of time could save you heaps of stress later on.

Edited May 30, 2016 by PB260Z

[mspecr]

That's a very risky approach. 

 

I'd suggest you engage one soon and set out all you propose to undertake and get his response. They all seem to have their own idiosyncrasies and you are best to know what they are

 

Mine wants door intrusion bars and a high mounted stop-light, neither are required on a 1972 car, BUT, he is allowing a whole range of modifications which others may question. I've contacted him on numerous occasion (in writing - email) to seek his determination on this and that. He dropped by to see the car finish welded on the rotisserie and he was pleased with what had been done. I know when I finally submit the car it will only be a matter of workmanship that he will review,

 

You shouldn't have to pay all the fees upfront, I didn't.

 

Oh, nearly forgot. By engaging sooner rather than later they end up giving you free consulting advice, not simply the approval. When you set out before them what you propose to do they can sometimes offer alternatives, based on their experience, which can save you time and money..

 

This statement is so true !!!... 

 

Choice of engineer is crucial, some of them forget who they are working for. My 280ZX V6 engine and gearbox conversion was pretty well completed by the time one was engaged, presentation is all important as is the quality of work of course. 

 

And this one as well..

 

I see what you mean I contacted a fair few already to get there vibe on the situation and its bit of a hit and miss for the gents ( so far ) over here. I have found one that's quite reasonable with only requiring emissions gear like charcoal canisters from the newer engine to be installed, even thou the car wasn't installed with one, but he seams interested and willing to discuss further.

 

Still a few more that I haven't contacted yet but there starting to get quite distant from where I am located, this is somewhat a task in itself really :S.

[mspecr]

For this week I had a craving for pulling things apart, so the victims where the front struts, rear struts, and both sub frames.

I did actually attempt to clean up the parts, but for the time and effort it seam a logical choice to get them blasted and powder coated.

Here wd40 is your friend.

 

Just for reference :

 

Strut Bearing : Nachi - 28TG52 

 

Front bearing set :

Outer NSK -  LM11949

Inner NSK -  LM67048

HUB seal :  KC 48 62 6

 

Rear bearing set :

Outer NSK - 831Z-16C4 *note this has a extended inner race on one side which should be sealed, mount this side most outwards / closest to hub face.

Inner Nachi - RLS10

HUB seal : 43232 E4100

 

 Surface rust finish.

 

 Only 1 boot survived, anyone know of alternate replacements for these ?

 

 

 cylinders looked great, thou i will throw in a re seal kit while everything is out.

 

 

 

 

 

 * The outer rear wheel bearing with its extended inner race and sealed edge. 

 

Pulling apart is easy, putting it back together is another, I'll go more into detail when we come to that part.

I heard stories of people having issues pulling out spindle pins which I was dreading, lucky enough mine came out easy with only a few taps phew...  Only question now should I leave the old bushes in or remove prior to powder coating ? There all going to be replaced at some stage.

 

 

 

 

 

[mspecr]

Managed to swing past a local powder coating joint in O'connor to discuss what they can do for me,

turns out they do in house media blasting also. In mentioning about how they want things masked one of the gents gave me roll of black tesa tape which was quite nice of them.

 

While masking away I came to the rear control arms and was pondering the idea if i should remove the old bushes now or later. I had the new bushes here so I went and measured them to see if they will fit, the existing bushing with its outer cage was roughly around 30mm, so these had to go.

 

 

 bondage tape.

 

 new bushing

 

 get these.

 

 

 burn this.

 

 poke the hot tube out.

 

 find a saw. make 4 cuts in a compass. I was light with cutting so i didn't go to far.

 

 Fold in like so.

 

 using a 3 jaw bearing puller and the rear wheel bearing spacer for the backing press till it falls out, wd40 helps.

 

 clean up the hole / burrs with some sandpaper, wipe clean and test fit. Repeat x4.

 

The diff mustache bar looks to be a similar method, I'll get onto that tomorrow.

Guess its better to burn them out now instead of fighting later and trying not to damage the new paint later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GK510]

Talk about dedication. Seems like there's nothing that's going to stop you progressing at a rapid rate.

 

I'd be interested to see how your suspension bits turn out. I plan to do strut inserts and springs on mine soon and have been contemplating wether to go the whole hog and paint/powder coat the bits while I'm at it.

[mspecr]

Haha cheers ,  " snow ball effect " comes to mind, and its a problem, frankly I " could " just leave it, but since it has to be inspected I may as well go the whole 9 yards. Presentation alone could be the difference in changing someones opinion. Which reminds me I haven't given much thought about springs, so cheers for the reminder.

 

If you got time to do it, do it properly, nothing worse then going back to something you could of done when you had the chance to do it right the first time. Just my opinion.

[PB260Z]

If you got time to do it, do it properly, nothing worse then going back to something you could of done when you had the chance to do it right the first time. Just my opinion.

"Do it once, Do it well"

 

Was a sign in the metalwork shop at high school - great advice

[260DET]

There are multi purpose boots around that may suit the steering, general parts shops usually have them.

[mspecr]

There are multi purpose boots around that may suit the steering, general parts shops usually have them.

 

Yup indeed, I got a set of universal ones for the steering rack. Its the boots for the Struts I'm chasing. Just did a comparison between them as it was a good idea but they just fall short sadly  but yeah must be bigger ones out there.

 

Steering Rack universal boot :

18000 - Motorgear

 

 OEM strut boot top, Universal steering boot below.

 

 Top of strut boot.

 

 Bottom of strut boot.

 

I'll keep looking something has to be out there that's close enough.

 

Continuing on today was the mustache bar, same deal here had to burn out the center crush tube, while this was going on I was approached by a person promoting the greens movement. It was ironic outer all times to be burning bushes out in the driveway, lets just say they didn't stay for too long sadly. 

 

I could of left it burning till all the rubber was out, but the fumes where gassing me out of the garage, so I spent the time doing it mechanically. The rest was just masking odd bits and pieces, threads, studs holes ect ect.

 

 

 Standing up for Fremantle !

 

 

 44mm hole saw make quick work of removing left over rubber.

 

 die grinder, file and sandpaper cleans the remaining rubber.

 

 

 snug fit.

 

 almost there.

 

Now its trying to find what else I have left out, then compile a list so the powder coaters know what is supposed to be there, last thing you want is to lose something and have no proof of its existence. 

[Brabham]

I hope you burnt the greens flyer while you were at it - that would have been great!

[mspecr]

@ Brabham. your onto it buddy

 

Its been a while thanks to being flat out at work and what not, plus its pitch black by 6pm.. which sadly is the time I get home nowadays. *shakes fist at peak hour freeway*. So its time for a short story...

I started pulling apart my old RB. Quick history of my new boat anchor goes as followed, I built it about 5-6 years ago, and was home in a pewter grey S15 spec R, making a modest 450 with the most linear power curve on pump fuel. Life was great. 1st is useless. 2nd still useless 3rd. the same .4th interesting. 5th might blow this gear, being that it was a weekend car it was driven hard every time it was started.

The setup listed below easy can develop more power but I never found the need being a light weight car.. as much as I don't like to admit this but I was the limiting factor in it. ( I need more skill in driving... but being half Asian it " should " come natural to me.. least I thought anyways. ... ) So somewhere along the line I got mature and got distracted by the idea of the Z dream, so the s15 had to go. ( this is where my 2+2 came about ).

Prior the s15 leaving me I swapped out the drive line and engine setup, this is where I found my issue... a cracked block, not deck area but on the side between #3 and #4, this is more of a cast / structural fault if anything, a somewhat common problem on hard engines.. Looking into it, it can / might be fixed however you still have to tear it down, thou with lots of rbs around it seamed more cost effective in finding another block and machining that too suit, plus it gives me a chance to add / mod / start from blank slate. Here it sat in the garage under wraps for a good year or two.

 

Specs :

Later r33 GTR crank. (long nose)

ACL race bearings.

Eagle Rods.

Cp Pistons @ 87mm @ 8.5 CR

272* (248* @ .050") In and Ex cams, 11mm lift.

Greedy Adjustable Cam gears.

Tomei Metal Head gasket set 87mm @ 1.2mm

1 mm oil restrictor 

Extra cam cover baffles.

Nitto Oil pump

6 boost exhaust manifold

Turbosmart 50mm wastegate.

Garret gt3582r, .70 comp .62 rear

ID 1000 injectors on HKS fuel rail.

Vipec ECU.

 

So it leaves me with a few options, 

 

1. Find a block, get it machined straight to 87.. and throw in a new set of rings / bearings to suit. (pending current condition of pistons / rods / crank )

2. Find a block, machine to 86.5 and obtain new slugs n rings and use existing rods ect ect.

3. Find one already built.

 

Guess its time too do some number crunching. 

 

 

 

 Doesn't look like much but this crack is just above the oil feed to the turbo.

 

[mspecr]

Hit a milestone, shes finally up on the rotisserie    And it doesn't look all that bad from under neigh surprisingly.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Sirpent]

Nicely done, 

 

Welcome to the twist and turn club

 

Now the fun begins.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Sirpent

[CBR Jeff]

We'll Mark that will make life easier.

 

Jeff

[mspecr]

Sorry its been well over due for a update. Been away for work months *literally* at a time, however perks for being away you get to order things and its Christmas when you return !

 

So to begin.

Under body items powder coated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Over all I'm quite happy for the quality of work, coverage was even done into some of deep areas like the hollow sections of the front sub frame and rear suspension arms, which i didn't expect to be done but they did. Very minor clean up is required in some areas ie. tapping threads and removing left over masking tape.. but overall this saved me hours of work is well worth the $ spent.

 

After cleaning a few items up. On with some new bushes.

 

 

 mmm lube...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 comparison picture from before blasting and powdercoating..

 

 

Sent my bolts away to get re zinced.. $80 bucks up to 20 kgs.. for me it sounded like a bargain ! till i added items up off the Z that only came to 6 kgs... Sooo... I managed to scrape together all the loose bolts i can find from prior jobs and even items that was not related but " might be later " to add to the pile.

 

Again this is a batch process,, some are expected not to be perfect when finished, prior to doing this its worth taking pictures of selected groups of items to help you sort out your collection.. also grab a few tackle boxes / organiser cases.. you will need them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ones that didn't make it..

 

The before pics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did order some std height king springs. The rear set was fine however I got a front set that suit a holden.... *grumbles*... so that had to be sent back, the correct replacements have a 3 week lead time...

 

 

 ... the culprit 

 

Should of powder coated the originals in yellow..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mspecr]

Only a minor update.

I managed to score a bargain via gumtree, one rb26 block and crank for $50... I didn't believe it at first, so I quickly called and told the bloke ill grab it straight away, For this price expect issues.. and sure enough, melted 5 / 6 pistons and 2 / 7 spun mains.

I was only after a block anyways i grabbed them both.

Taking it home and pulling apart, I discovered it is a n1 block (24u cast) loaded with a long nose crank - winnings !

Cleaning it all down, doing a very attack with a die grinder, I went straight to Harris Engines Osborne Park.

So explaining what I " wanted " and then translating to what they will do, the following work will be done.

 

Block decked / torque plate honed, (to suit new forge 86.5mm slugs )

Line bore / hone, ( using ARP mains for this one )

Replacing core plugs.

Oil Pump drive to be replaced with a new Oil Pump Drive collar. 

Polish of journals. 

Rotating Balance. ( inc Harmonic Balancer and Clutch assembly )

 

The old crank I brought also to see if that is salvageable, everything inc mag particle. 

 

 

 

 

 

 Lot of scale came out of it ..

 

 

 

 The worst of the lot, a hone alone ain't going to fix this. 

 

 

 

 

 still scaly ..

 

 hard life but its seen better days, this drive is getting replaced.

 

 The Nitto oil drive held up really well to the abuse, all thou you can just barely see the contact pad, easy less then a mm.

 

 

 quick cleanup. taper the drain holes to suit the gasket, more will come later. 

 

 

 

 

Roughly a week- two week turn around, and that's taking their time. I was hoping for a month to help save room in the garage... thou I guess not.

The head I will get around to a full tear down later, hopefully it shouldn't need much work as long it comes up flat, maybe a quick lap we shall see.