Replacement Panels For Sunroofs - Any Interest?

[PeterAllen]

I am working with 'RaZed' to develop a panel which can be fitted in the space left by the removal of a sunroof and thus restore the original roof appearance.

 

The design and technique may depend somewhat on the number of panels made so without any commitment or obligation by any parties could members indicate if they would be interested in such an item.

 

The panels will be custom made to suit individual vehicles.

 

Panels may be attached via panel glue, spot welding or tack welds. Fitting instruction for each technique included. Estimate $250-$275 supply only. 

 

Any interest?

Edited October 14, 2015 by PeterAllen

[gav240z]

Sounds like a good idea Peter, I'm interested to see how it pans out but also may be interested in this form of repair on my gold 240z. I already have a spare turret but may do something like this as a "temporary" solution depending on my build direction etc..

[PeterAllen]

Just so there is no confusion over Gavin's use of the term "temporary". I'm sure he has meant it to imply a sound "alternative" solution until such time as he can fit a one-piece roof befitting the OEM-level restoration of an S30.

 

The panel I am proposing is structurally sound and the swagged edge probably creates more strength than an OEM roof.

[240z71]

Hey guys

 

Though i would put my imput as i recently patched my sunroof. The problem i see with this and it might not apply to everyone but as my sunroof was quite large the edges around had sagged out of shape due to stress. If i had of gone ahead and glued a panel like said panel i would have ended up with a valley where they meet. I dare say alot of peoples roofs have slightly gone out of shape from years of having sunroofs and would find it hard to butt a panel up and have it flow like an oem skin? This is one advantage of welding a piece in as it becomes one bit of metal again a be shaped as one piece not two

 

Just food for thought

[PeterAllen]

If I were to run ribs, contoured to the OEM roof, which extended beyond the perimeter to the more curved section of the roof (front to back) do you think that might address the issue? Thanks.

 

 

Also, might the situation have been improved if a prop was used inside the car to push the roof 'up' until the glue was set or while welding was carried out? 

 

Thanks for the input, I'm just trying to brainstorm with this post.

Edited October 15, 2015 by PeterAllen

[240z71]

Yeah its a good idea that the community needs. Running ribs could work.Heres what i did (bare with me). For starters i cut away the remaining edge of my roof which was rusty and jaggered from where it was cut to install the sunroof. This made it so i had nice square edges to weld to. Next i brought some aluminium strips of metal that were strong enough to hold there shape but weak enough to bend by hand. Using these i found a Z with a good roof and moulded the aluminium strips in different places over the roof. Then took these strips of aluminium to a wreckers and put them on top of different roofs to see which was the best fit. Ended up being a 97 ford laser and so i cut out what i needed and headed home. Cut it to size and proped up what was left of the original roof to shape and place the patch in then welded it. This gave it a farely good shape but it took a bit of time to get to the stage were i could sit the aluminium strips on my roof and they were pretty much perfect. As far as proping the roof up whilst glue or welding was taking place that is what i did and it worked really good dont know if it would work with glue though. One idea is make it so the patch panel your talking about runs almost to the edge of the skin and less of the original roof is used which might reduce warping? I think one of the reasons mine worked is because the hole was so big that i was welding closer to the edges of the skin which gave it more rigidity and thus less warping. Overall there is a few hours work in here but as i did it myself it was free and all up cost me $10. This was the first panel beating type job i ever tackled (im 17) so its worth just having a crack if your gonna replace the skin anyway

Edited October 15, 2015 by 240z71

[PeterAllen]

Congratulations, that's pretty impressive stuff.

 

I'm guessing you cut the panel to the exact size of the opening or fractionally larger and butt welded it in place. Is that correct?

 

I'm proposing to create a step (joggle) around the perimeter of the panel for a lap join. (see image, but it is upside down to what I propose)

 

 

 

 

[240z71]

Yeah I think that the joggle join is the best way to go about it. I just cut mine roughly to size and then just kept grinding off little bits at a time till I had a good gap all around and butt welded it, took a very long time to get it to fit good. I think for it to be an easier process than what I did it should be a composite panel and you make ribs that glue on to the original roof that also provide something for the new bit to sit on and make it all "flow" from new bit to old bit better. Do you have a roof skin with a sunroof?

[gav240z]

Just goes to show that giving it a go is the way to do it. So far I've heard everyone tell us why it's difficult and why they wouldn't attempt it but the way I see it, if you never give it a shot how will you know for sure? In some cases I think worry about "messing it up" is what holds a lot of us back from achieving what we want to. I know I'm guilty of this myself.

 

@Peter that joggle join is what I had in mind also. I was also thinking that when welding you could get a solid clump of steel and hold it behind the area being welded to help absorb the heat from the welding and just very gradually apply heat to each section. So basically take a long time to weld. I was thinking oxy weld would perhaps be best because you can easily hammer and reshape the weld compared with MIG. Also the joggle would give a piece of metal on the other side of the weld that would also help to somewhat absorb heat and allow for a nice flush fit.

 

The MIG might be advantageous because you can just tack, tack tack tack along and apply very little heat that way. But you'll end up having to spend time grinding down the welds. 

 

Good to know 97 Ford Lasers are roof donors  .

[Patch]

For what it is worth I have seen videos' where they pop rivet a piece of metal under the roof, so you cut a panel so it is the right shape and fit and go around and pop both piece together, this way you get a nice cold fit with no distortion, now when the shape is right you now tack in between the pop rivets spreading the heat around the whole roof and slight tapping to keep it straight as you go, you keep going tacking until all done, then remove the rivets and fill those holes up, finish welding and grind.
Videos' were done by one of those custom car shows that was on tv with some of the great custom car guys of all time where they only had a certain time to do the car, in this video they cut and chopped the roof.

 

 

One of the guys was a little old hunched up man who always has a fat cirgar in his mouth, very famous custom guy, can't think of his name.

 

I found a picture of him.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Patch

[gav240z]

Bill Hines I believe is his name.

[PeterAllen]

That might be okay for old Yank cars made out of armourplate but I'm not so sure it would be appropriate on an S30.

[Patch]

Bill Hines I believe is his name.

 

Yes thats his name, I think this is the vidio here but it is in french, another old guy does the roof, S30 maybe thinner but can't see why it would not work, you could even glue it the same way but a lot easier to make up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DD7IWLLPnQ

 

[Brabham]

I can see a lot of 97 lasers being turned into convertibles now, good to know there is something readily available with the right profile, awesome workmanship for a 17 year old, a credit to you. I would probably go about it the same way you did. Did you MIG it?

 

Cheers

[240z71]

I can see a lot of 97 lasers being turned into convertibles now, good to know there is something readily available with the right profile, awesome workmanship for a 17 year old, a credit to you. I would probably go about it the same way you did. Did you MIG it?

Cheers

Thanks man, yeah I just used a gas MIG and did lots of tacks moving around the panel. Having the aluminium strips shaped to the right shape is a necessity and once you have them you'll find that a fare few cars have basically the right shape it's just nit picking to make it less work doing final shaping once it's in the car. It also makes it easier to find a donor panel the smaller your sunroof is because you only need a little section to have the right shape but with mine I needed a 600 x 800mm panel so that narrows the donor car selection down a lot. Also if anyone is thinking of giving this a shot feel free to message me because I could go a lot more in detail and show some other things that I did and solutions to some of the problems I had.

[gav240z]

Maybe add those additional details in this thread instead?

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/topic/14078-hide-my-sunroof/

[260DET]

Great topic with some great ideas. On the rigidity of a composite panel, given it will will have a compound curve shape it would not surprise me if nothing more was needed to hold that shape, assuming that the panel is strong enough as a roof panel should be. Some form of propping it up while it is being fixed in place would be pretty well mandatory, do a dry run first to check the overall shape and the amount of support that will be needed.

[gav240z]

Peter just a suggestion and I'm not sure how feasible it is, but would you be better off reproducing the entire roof turret skin than a replacement section? Mainly because each sunroof hole will be a different size and position from 1 another, let's face it there is no standard size.

 

I've looked at the curvature of the skin and it's quite different profiles in many areas which makes it hard to just wheel it up. So not sure how difficult you would find this? I know if I was to attempt it it would take me a long time to get it right.

 

Hence I always tell people buy a complete second hand roof turret if you want the easiest and cheapest option.

[Brabham]

Complete roof turrets are a good idea and overcome the prob of diff sized sunroofs. maybe the guy from automotive panel craft might know how feasible this is. Ultimately if enough Zeds get done someone might start pressing them, perhaps rare spares as they have the facilities. On this, are all 240 and 260Z 2-seat turrets the same, including the frame underneath?

 

Cheers

[PeterAllen]

... I'm not sure how feasible it is,...

 

Zero... It was not my intention to  cater for those wanting an OEM structured vehicle. This is purely a standard panel fix for those who no longer wish to have a sunroof. There would be 20x the effort required in creating a complete roof and 20x times the cost.

 

There will not be that much variation in the opening size and position as a relatively flat area is needed to accommodate the flat design of a sunroof.

 

I will be rolling a sheet the complete size of the flat-ish area of the roof. We will lay that in position and then mark out the exact position of the opening on RAZed's roof. I'll then swage the edge and trim to size.

 

As no one else seems interested I just go ahead and make one for 'RaZed'.

[gav240z]

Complete roof turrets are a good idea and overcome the prob of diff sized sunroofs. maybe the guy from automotive panel craft might know how feasible this is. Ultimately if enough Zeds get done someone might start pressing them, perhaps rare spares as they have the facilities. On this, are all 240 and 260Z 2-seat turrets the same, including the frame underneath?

 

Cheers

 

I spoke to Wayne and he was going to look into it and try replicate 1 and see how many hours would be involved. I offered my spare roof turret to use as a guide but he said he had a 240z to work from. To really make 1 like rare spares does, you'd have to make a buck to press them out like pancakes. I was told this is pretty expensive to do, lot of money up front. However it might be far cheaper in Taiwan to do it if you have the right contacts.

 

As for any differences between S30z's over the years, I'm pretty sure this area remained unchanged through the life of the S30z. It is the GS30 (or 2+2) that was different.

 

 

As no one else seems interested I just go ahead and make one for 'RaZed'.

 

Peter truth be told the roof is the last item on my fix it list, so I am anxious to see how it turns out. I actually have another roof turret / skin (I've got 3 in total) and 1 is in pretty average condition around the drip rails. I'm thinking of using this as my cut out piece to plug the hole in the roof of HS30 00150. But I'm very interested to see how you go, so keep us posted. Once the first 1 is done you may find demand for more. 

[Scotty_Rah]

I've only just seen this post.

Lots of great information here. I cant wait to get stuck into this and give it go. I will try to document as much as i can and share my own experience and results.

 

Thanks a lot Peter, you've saved my (roof) skin. 

[Scotty_Rah]

Here the current status of my roof right now.

[240z71]

Here the current status of my roof right now.

Those rounded corners should help alot compared to square edges with heat dispersion. Looks like it will need proping up around the edges to get back in the right shape?

[gav240z]

Shame it was such a large sunroof, in comparison mine is tiny. In theory that means it should be an easier repair.