Early (1974) 260z different ADR's?

[DreamZproject]

Hey guys, I've recently been thinking about how "legal" all of the mods i want to do to my car are going to be...

I had always known that '74 was a pivotal point in automobile regulations, but how exactly is my early 260z

going to be affected? I can't find any firm dates or details, but from what i can remember is that if the car is

pre 74 you can get away with things such as; louder exhaust, crazier engine swaps, less smog restrictions etc.

My 260 is number 808 made 4/74.

 

Whats everyones understanding of this, and how much more desireable does this make my 260 over other Z's

(I'm never going to sell it, i simply want to know so i can know that it's special )

[C.A.R.]

'Emissions' - that's it.

[benny]

'Emissions' - that's it.

 

 

concur with lurch.... engine swaps etc are based on vehicle weight

[DreamZproject]

Ok, well thats fairly handy!

 

While I'm at it, whats the legality of using an aftermarket ecu on a car from 1974?

Oviously fuel injection back then was virtually non existant, and the laws that govern

todays cars would be far too harsh... so where do i stand if i want to use an

aftermarket ecu?

 

(I basically don't want to have to get it engineered, not worth it so i'd have to go

with carbs...)

 

[DreamZproject]

Oh and where would i be able to locate this "engine swap based on weight bizz" I have located

the most modern version of engine swap design rules, but it's based on capacity and other factors...

[benny]

have a search around the forum. sirpent has some good info in his build thread. IIRC you are able to put up to 5.6L NA or 3.2 Boosted those figures are for 260z so not sure if the 240z weighs the same.

 

 

ECU wise you should be fine.

[DreamZproject]

I'm not looking to swap an engine really, but I'm definately considering an aftermarket ECU. From what i have

read in NCOP3 LA

 

"3.1.3 Aftermarket Engine-Management Computers

The use of aftermarket engine management computers (not OEM) does not guarantee compliance

with the relevant ADR unless that particular computer/engine combination has undergone ADR

emission testing and the evidence of compliance is available (refer to Code LT3). If no evidence is

available, the vehicle must be tested in accordance with the applicable ADRs."

 

Pretty vague stuff... but I'm still not sure If i have to comply to this, or an earlier vehicle standard...

[DreamZproject]

Yeah, I've tried reading all of them...

Failed...

I somewhat gather that as long as i can pass emissions i'm ok, and due to being

pre 76 its pretty lax.

Correct me if im wrong.

[Scoota G]

Depends on the engine fitted. A 90' onwards SR20 will require the same emission system of the vehicle it was extracted from.

[gav240z]

Yeah, I've tried reading all of them...

Failed...

I somewhat gather that as long as i can pass emissions i'm ok, and due to being

pre 76 its pretty lax.

Correct me if im wrong.

 

My FD has a powerFC fitted, it just went through ADR compliance and they said nothing about it. I didn't tell them it was fitted mind you, but my insurance company knows and is fine with it.

 

I think so long as the ECU meets the emission testing regulations its fine, but we don't have mandatory emission testing in Australia like they do in the UK / Ireland / US so I'm not sure how they regulate this other than perhaps being randomly selected by the police for testing with the EPA?

 

In which case swapping a standard ECU back in shouldn't be a hassle.

 

My question for others in this thread relates to the rules and regulations around swapping an RB30 block with 25 head into an early S30Z.

 

I recall someone having issues with this because they couldn't get it through engineering in a 260z 2 seater but it would have been fine in a 240z?

 

Which engine is used for the assessment the RB30 or 25?

 

Further to this how does weight / displacement ratio impact rotary engine swaps? Before you ask, yes I do have dirty thoughts of a 20B engine swap in the 240z. A 20B can easily crank out 700HP without even thinking about it. So being limited to 5.6L N/A seems a bit silly doesn't it? I'm sure an N/A 5.7L engine can produce 700HP also but I just don't see the logic.

 

Then again I'm looking for logic in government department regulations. I guess they just sat in a room and said "let's pick an arbitrary set of numbers out of the air and go with that". Job done.

[Sirpent]

Depends on the engine fitted. A 90' onwards SR20 will require the same emission system of the vehicle it was extracted from.

I'm not looking to swap an engine really, but I'm definately considering an aftermarket ECU. From what i have

read in NCOP3 LA

 

"3.1.3 Aftermarket Engine-Management Computers

The use of aftermarket engine management computers (not OEM) does not guarantee compliance

with the relevant ADR unless that particular computer/engine combination has undergone ADR

emission testing and the evidence of compliance is available (refer to Code LT3). If no evidence is

available, the vehicle must be tested in accordance with the applicable ADRs."

 

Pretty vague stuff... but I'm still not sure If i have to comply to this, or an earlier vehicle standard...

 

OK, I may as well chime in here

 

My original engineer, Paul Bottomley advised that as far as fitting the AMG C32 M112 into the Z was concerned, the only requirement I had to oblige to was carrying over the original 1975 Carbon Canister set up which Dimitri kindly got for me a year or so back.

 

So, anything else that the AMG came with that isnt required to actually make it motor along but complied it with 2002 ADR's can be jetisoned, the M112 is not therefore required in the Z to meet the 2002 standards but rather the prehistoric 1975 standards.

 

 

On the subject of 3.1.3

 

This refers to non OEM replacements such as a MoTeC replacing an OEM unit, the mapping of the OEM is set to meet ADR requirements, or more usually the US Californian requirements which are the worlds toughest, replacement of an OEM with an aftermarket does not mean that these standards are maintained or reached therefore 3.1.3 should be read in that context

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Scoota G]

I'm not trying to start an argument , just going off the national standards. Per say does anyone know what ancillary items connect to a vehicle once the engine is done with it? There can be a bunch of emission control items on an engine but few systems beyond. Carbon canisters were not required pre June 1976 in Australia. Any Zed owners running an air pump on their engine?

[PeterAllen]

... So, anything else that the AMG came with that isnt required to actually make it motor along but complied it with 2002 ADR's can be jetisoned, the M112 is not therefore required in the Z to meet the 2002 standards but rather the prehistoric 1975 standards.

...

 

Just shows how different engineers are; my enigineer states that my 2005 LS1 engine must comply with 2005 ADR/emissions.

[Stivva]

I am surprised by all this, because when my car (1976) was roadworthied and registered, both times it was inspected and I was never asked about my lack of emissions gear. It has just plain, never existed as far as the law is concerned. Even when I have had police look at the car, they have never asked about my lack of a pollution canister.

[nizm0zed]

you need to look at your compliance plate. the ADR's on there is the basis of what you car must comply to.

Notably, in the case of the year model and emissions rulings, You are looking for ADR 27, 27a or 27b.

find out which one is on your plate and go from there.

fyi, ADR 27b (the beginning of the real emissions clampdown) began in Feb 76

[Sirpent]

Just shows how different engineers are; my enigineer states that my 2005 LS1 engine must comply with 2005 ADR/emissions.

 

Scoota

 

Not arguing, just stating what Bottomley advised me, and form memory there may be something in an email I copied and pasted from him in my thread about this point.

 

As far as my car is concerned, It was a May 1975 complied vehicle and it did have the canister which I removed in the 80's when I ran the triple 45's, if you look t this photo of a photo I just took and uploaded, you will see to the left of the compliance plate and aft of the radiator is the purch bracket which the canister sat on originally, that bracket has now also beed deleted from the engine bay.

 

Cheers

 

John

[zedevan]

fyi, ADR 27b (the beginning of the real emissions clampdown) began in Feb 76

 

I was quite happy when i found this out while looking into it a few years ago considering my car is a Jan 76 car!

 

I recall someone having issues with this because they couldn't get it through engineering in a 260z 2 seater but it would have been fine in a 240z?

 

Gav my understanding is this has to do with the above law. Since rb 30/25's never came out in any car there's no emissions data for them, which makes it difficult/expensive to pass the required emissions standards for cars newer than 76. However no one's going to measure the height of the block...

[44014]

It's  really quite simple , you just have to comply to the standards that the engine  was subject to in the original vehicle.

A rb30 with a 25 head is still a rb 30 and would come under pollution deign rules from vl's and r31 skylines.

No engineers certificate is req for a head swap.

 

[DreamZproject]

Ahhh I think I see the loophole.  Vicroads can't/ can't be bothered to go find out which year the engine is from, so

As far as they know, I imported this engine from the USA when the 280z came out, before 76, skipping those set

of emission standards...

[Agno]

L28 engines require no engineering as they were standard fitment in other S30 chassis globally. You just need to fill out the engine # change form at your local Vicroads/RTA and it's just a rubber stamp and a small fee.