dat2kman

Alan HS30 , i am aware of the regs, and your underlined bits, but, when other marques have managed to slip things in, due to nefarious past occurances which were able to be proven, well, why not the Datsuns. I have been involved in Sus motor sport for over 30 years, i race a S, T, O, U cars, am looking at a quick gp2b build, i have been a CAMS level 2 scrutineer, and am a CAMS Technical Machine Examiner. The chair of the HPB is a long term mate, and has built up two Datsun S cars, i own his last one. When i tell him about the Rally side of Datsun, which he knew zip about, his comment was along lines of, "ok, go for it, put up a case, show old period stuff" I know what will be accepted, and can sift through the stuff that wont be. Fascinating to note the CAMS rule does not apply to the three marques i mention above. Are you able to provide a range of documents, pictures, brochures, specificatiobs, news repoerts, magazine articles, event reports, that have specific information on, brakes, rims, carburettors. The other car mods are superflous to what is required. When i explained to him, the chair of the committee, that Nissan had actually made cars, brand new, for use on public roads in Africa, aeurope and the UK, with the items we need, fitted, at factory level, he said, "get whatever information you can, it cannot be heresay or second hand romours or scuttlebutt" That sounds pretty bloody positive to me. Do we persist with this, or just forget about Datsuns and trying to make them competitive against the others that have been granted the concessions. Can you help us please?

Thanks Benny. We do need to show that, in some documentation, that those rims were at least 7 inches wide, (diam is not an ssue) Nissan, as per HS30 , or maybe someone else??, had the special rally car mag wheels at both 6" and 7" We need 7" Photos showing the brakes, the brakes through the wheels, and showing a 3/4 view that has a vented rotor will help tremendously, as well as information, in writing from the period, with details, stuff that may something like,,, "for the bitumen rally stages we fit the wider 7" magnesium wheel, with a special cut slick tyre" etc etc

Benny, that llks an excellent site, but, i cant seem to find any period articles or documentation or brochures, copies of? If there are any can you please link to them. Right, ALL, i have just, today, recieved a short two line email, from the Chair of the Historic Production Based Elegibility Committee, which responds, recommends and reports directly to CAMS Historic Commission, in Australia, quote as follows, " Cars are permitted factory fitted (not dealer fitted) options for Group S" He requires evidence of this. Not heresay, he said she said, or I remember when, i saw a photo , he has restored a car, etc etc. The rally cars were built at a Nissan factory, they were built for use on public roads, they were built for a number of people to use them, and as such, no matter that it did not occur, but, if Nissan had been asked, "can I buy one to try to win XXX championship or rally" i very much doubt they would have said NO. Fact is, as Alan T says, they were built by a factory that was an arm of Nissan. Can i please be furnished with as much documents to support this?

The CAMS elegibility guys here just require supporting documentation, that, a manufacturer made a car, at their factory, with the items fitted, for use on public roads. Ie it had to be registerable, ( nowhere do they say it had to be sold to the public, or supplied) The other "way" was for individual car dealers, of new cars, to fit the items, as "special" order for a customer of a new car. Here in Australia, Alan Hamilton Porsche, in South Yarra, fitted many items, at customer request and order, onto a new Porsche. In the UK, just one small new MGB dealer, fitted a Weber sidedraft onto a B. As i advised above, the Morgan Motor Company wrote a letter stating their cars had items able to be fitted, for use on public roads. The 240 and 260 Rally cars, with 7x14 rims, four piston calipers, vented front rotors, disc braked rear end, and triple carbs, are what is required. The rest we already have, ie oil coolers, lighter weight, no body embellishments, ie bumpers, removal of some interior, removal of emmissions requirements, engine , gearbox internals are free, LSD diffs and various ratios. All we want, as above is rims, 7" is good, 8" better, discs bigger/better, and carbs. FWIW, i personally will loose out big time if we can get carbs up, as mine is a 280Z on injection, unless it can be shown Nissan supplied some sort of better/bigger injection system, for USA market, on the later Rally cars, but i am sure they did not, as that has been researched as much as i was able to. Alan T Hs30, can you please provide what you know of in this regard, as per above, or post links to sites. I will then get this printed off, to add to the submission to CAMS.

Your original purchase price, may have been at a premium, based on "rarity" The bits and pieces you have accquired, in general did cost you premium, At$900 for a 240k box, that eas about $500 to much (i reco and sell them) I'd strongly suggest you keep it, put the capital expenditure into it, carefully, drive it, enjoy the ownership, and in a few, or a lot, of years, maybe sell it. You will not get back what you will have spent, no-one ever does, unless it is a super rare very unique and highly desired car, and the depressed world markets at present, are not a "sellers" market. Your ask of 11k, if you have to sell, will more than likely be around 6k selling figure I am working on a "granny spec" datsun 1600, original ask price, $15k, it finally sold, to a non-tyre kicker, who was only prepared to offer $5k. That seems to be pretty well the price for a granny 1600. Your 240k will be the same. Money back? I am reluctantly selling some cars, their cost to restore them is high, eg my Z, cost 60k, asking 45k, it is a specific use car, a little unique, and in Australia, it is extremely rare, in fact, it is the only one, of this particular Nissan model ( Ex USA import variant)

Simon will love this one! Cool, Como Park, the nice gentle slopes next door to historic Como House! As a young fella, i used to GRASS SKI all over the slopes there! ( does anyone know wtf I am on about??) I'll be half way to there, that weekend, at Eastern Ck NSW

Rb26zed, you are pretty well spot on, thats all good! Alan T, everytime you post, is a little more information and detail, and i would like to hope, that one day, i can get enough to be able to place a case. It would seem that the cars built up by Nissan, but not necassarily supplied to others ie public, , as "works" rally cars, (as opposed to cars prepared for pure competition, these are deemed as " competition variants" and are not accepted), and as the rally cars were prepared by the Nissan factory ( does not matter which plant or where) for use on public roads, by very well known name drivers, the elegibility guys here, and possibly now New Zealand, may reconsider the application, and re-open it. Others in the past, for sure, have tried on many occaisons, to put forward the Options Parts Catalogue, with argument of " it was available for purchase" etc, but due to past known and accepted Group 4 use, which is not acceptable for "production Sports" racing rules here in Australia, it has never been able to get the OK. We have all been on the circuit/racing mods bandwagon. No-one here has even thought to explore what was done by Nissan in the rally program. How much information is available? Car details and soecifications? Pictures? Period date publications? Could Kazuo Hioki san, be adked to , on letterhead, furnish details? After all, we are wishing very much to preserve and continue with the Heritage of Nissan, and the rally cars were part of that. It would be a "loophole" but just like others have exploited others manufacturers, why not give it a crack. I just do not have sufficient information, to put a case up. Any and all hepl appreciated!

We would like some of the Victorian guys to join us, as PeterRotaryThingy says, "first in best dressed" Get in contact with him asap, you get at couple of practice sessions on the Saturday, and be part of a 5 car team on Sunday, which works out to about 1 hour 15 mins of track time, not all at once, it is done in maximum of 15 lap stints, with real action pitstops!! It's a good opportunity though, for us Northeners to get in some track time at PI, before next years Nationals, we did have 19 originally that said they would be keen to do this, but now whittled diwn to just a handfull ( 6 ) from Qld, Dave Wilson from Newcastle, Lee Falkner from Grafton, and your very own Rob Devenish from Melbourne.

Alan# hs30, We may be able to put a case forward based on that Nissan factory built up a car (rally car) to be able to be registered for use on a road in the worl, that was built with the items we are trying to get through. The elegibility guy i am in contact with at CAMS has stated that i must "show proof that a manufacturer of a car, supplied a car, new, with the items fitted, for use on public toads" He has said, "the items cannot have been fitted after the car was made, as optional accessories or parts" I read the first statement as our avenue of address, ie all we need is period information, such as a detailed build sheet, how cars were prepared, what parts were fitted, and what events and years the new, as manufactured by Nissan, for the use on public roads, were made. The Morgan Motor Company in Wales England, has issued a written statement, in 1992, stating that as a manufacturer of the Morgan Plus 8, they had available as options, many performance enhancements, including bigger carburettors, brakes, alloy radiators ( ? ) wider wheels of 15" diam. These were for a staid British Gentlemans car, built in the late 60's/ early 70's. They state, on the letter, on company letterhead, that all these items were fitted on some new cars prior to taking delivery. No other documentary proof, in period, was furnished, just the letter in 1992 I have a photocopy of that letter. Consequently, all Morgan Plus 8's racing in Australia, are fully equipped! The interesting thing, why would a maker of a Pom car, where the annual temps are quite low, make a alloy multi core radiator as optional fitment, when everything British was perfect, and all cars used brass/copper radiators?? That interesting titbit had quite a few eyebrows raised, but, it was not questioned, as it was on official company letterhead. Alan T, how well are you aquainted with Kazuo Hioki san, or Minarti Iwatomo san ( 2ic at Nismo). Could they be asked to write some letters on Nissan letterhead? Both have met myself, and are aware of my efforts with historic racing here in Australia

In Sydney for work, back Tuesday, then off to EC on Thurs, for historic meet, back monday arvo! I can take digi pics, i can get them sucked out f digi camera onto ipad, but cannot suck out of ipad onto here. Someone said upload/download this app, that app, looked into it, eyes glazed over, brain started to hurt, went back out to shed, sucked in three big lunfgulls of avgas, all better now.

Come around, take said quick pics and stick on here Numptyboy here is a bit challenged doing that sort of thing. Or google a pic of one, it sort of looks a lot like that

BUT, stick a TURBO on uncle Calos's car, 'cis thats how they was solded in da YOOESAY, i it should be accepyed as 2F, on good semis, rim width allowances, and in the States they ran a 15" dealer option rim, it would go pretty well??? What you say young Matthew!!

No far from it, the factiry rally cars CAN be used as examples, as they were required to be registered for use on public roads all over. It is the early circuit racing supplied cars that are dubious as to how they were originally supplied ex factory, ie as a basic car, then, each race team would use option parts. Nissan themselves were more involved in rally program. This may be a better avenue to pursue for the goid bits being fitted. The pics of the factory rally rims, with four piston calipers will be needed, along with brichures dicuments details on the cars. I have all this for 240RS, but that model is not on any Historic race categories in Aus, due to being manufactured out of the period. Carl Beck? Can he be appraised/made aware of all this stuff above?

Yeah thats Carlos's jigger, only ever done dirt work? Matt, if it was tracked, what class, and what other cars would it be up against? I think it could go turbo L28, as they were supplied in USA, but what about as a turbo in teack work? Tarmac rallies these are permitted as ZXT He had it on for 25 k for years, at this price it could go, but, weigh this up to say, a Hardressermobile with a 1800 Turbo in SP mode, ala Brian Ferretbee, i dont think the Nissan will be all that much fun.

Mike, yes, if we can show that Nissan supplied cars with items fitted, ie to the African rally teams, or whoever the team or mob wete that did the Monte Carlo, or any other teams. Nissan did exactly this in early 1980's with the up specced 240RS model, that was then built up into a Group B rally car. Blydenstein UK was a "customer" for 240RS As a rally car had to be registered, that is sufficient for "road use" purpose and is more an argument point to get this going, as opposed to a car supplied to a race team, which would be either Group 2 or 4, the race/circuit team would have then bought option parts, but in most cases, back in the day, Nissan was "bach doir" supporting many teams with low or no cost cars and parts. CAMS Australia claim that is more for "race purposes" and not sold/supplied as a "normal " car for road use. Bingo, rally cars were "normal" cars??, fir road use, This is the avenue i will take. I have spoken with CAMS elegibility officials, the response is, " a car must have been supplied, with the items, for road use" sounds like rally cars. Alan T, if monitoring, what infirmation or documentation has survived, on the rally cars supplied, possibly Africa or with the cars driven by Fall and Pond, ie the Europe team cars?

I have a set of Tubes, for 50mm Mikuni, Original Nissan ones. Brand spanking shiny alloy new! What are they worth??? Sorry, it is a set of four, for the Option 50 mm PHH Solex's that were available on the Datsun Sports 2000's Any luck on a translat version? If so it adds to a file i will present to CAMS seeking to get rims and brakes for Group S race Z's. As Alan T above explains never fitted by dealer, or sold on a new car, but, i would like to find out if Nissan supplied/ provided/gave cars to teams for rally use, they would have then been road registered, as Nissan supplied them, with brakes rims, carbys etc

YES YES, Sunday August 5th. We need pitbitches to assist with signalling and stopwatch timing, and general jovial rib poking when we stuff it all up! No grease monkey work involved!

Yes it will be at PI for the six hour, please come down on the Sunday, nice and early, so you can give us a bit of a hand, we need pitbitches for signalling and stopwatch duty, no grease monkey work though! In between i will be able to answer any questions about how to get involved in Historic racing. No you dont need to go out and buy a front runner, you can start with the basics, and build up, as you get the hang of it. It is the learn how to crawl, then walk then run, but done in stages. What have you got now? A stock standard 240/260 It does not need much, a cage to specs, some safety gear, you need licensing up, a suit and gear. Car to get Historic logbooked, CAMS has specification sheets on th Z's Some 6x14rims, better shicks, stiffer lower springs, sway bars to your druve style, fresh set of rotors goid pads, decent rear linings. It's not hard, and if you talk to other Z racers they are more than happy to help, besides we need more Z's on the track! Thats it! Ready To Go! Then ,,,,,, you will want,,,,,,,,, an ENGINE, then a BOX, then a DIFF. No, not normal ones, but GOOD ones ! Hello Mr Wallet, i see you have lots of folding money there, i'll just take some!!

Click on the link in the original post above, scroll through it all, go down to comments, Alan T has been very helpfull in pointing out a few things. Yes, a minor setback re getting original confirmation on this car being sold via dealers with the good, required bits fitted! One pissible avenue, would Nissan have supplied it with the goid bits fitted, direct to a rally team, say in Africa, or for the Monte Carlo. If there is evidence that cars were made available with wide rims, big brakes etc, this may be able to be used. Alan T HS30, thank you kindly for your input, every bit helps!

Bozo, there is a fair bit of a difference between a "rare?, race soec 280zx 2 seater" that has no runs on the board, and a front running race 280Z with many top ten race results, quite a few podium outright places, and has also set fastest lap records in races at a few tracks, is fully logbooked and CAMS Historic approved, and is easily converted to be a frint running tarmac rally car. Your 18k ZX will be limited to marque sports events, and will be a back marker at most events, as current spec car technology will leave it well behind, and, it'd be playing out back of Mazda MX5's, wheres the fun! Few who know, will come to conclusion, easier to buy a ready to go unit, than start fresh, spend anything from 60 k, and a whole heap of time and headaches.

Aha, it was a cunning plan, Baldrick! Original thought was that three teams of six cars were going to enter, all 18 car/drivers from Qld, with intention of a Souther foray to PI, in readiness for NDN13. Yes aware of Wakefeild, but when you wrigh up from Brisb to Goulburn, vs Brisb to PI, and look at the driving experience at each track, PI was preferred! The wakefield 6 hour is on July 15 this year, few mates/teams running, i was invited, but, same weekend is HRCC Qld National Historic race meeting.

Can this yahoo japan page be translated? I get the pricing, and the models, but nothing else. What i am trying to determine is the size of these rims! 14 x what? 7" is what i need documentation on. Alan HS30, what documentstion, again, is thete about actual cars being supplied with these rims in the 7" width, along with the four piston caliper and vented rotor, other than what i already have, which is the Nissan Option Parts catalogues and price lists? Ie, how can we show and prove that these cars were supplied fitted with goid stuff by Nissan to someone? Many hanks, and to whomever can work out a translatoed version, pist back on here!

Sort of came close to that, at PI earlier on this year! We are not "racing" it is a regularity time trial, held over 6 hours, the team with the least penalties, is declared the champions. Penalties accrue by either going faster, or, slower than the lap time you reckon you can go closest too. It is a real mindpharque trying to work it all out, but a heck of a lot of fun, and plenty of strategy involved. So, who's thinking of coming along??

What is this thing called, love? What is this thing called love?

Acall out for some helpers!!! Lurch and Calamity have said they should be there, we may need a couple of other bodies to assist the team manager of each team. Someone who can keep an eye out for our cars, use a stopwatch. Make notes on a clipboard, and wave an arm at another helper standing on pitlane wall to signal the driver. The more bodies to do "shifts" helps out to relieve others. The event organisers were quite pleased that they got so much interest from us, so far up Morth, and we have been accepted with enthusiasm, we are Team Nos, 13 and 14, and are in pitlane garages of same number. To all our Auszcar mates, come along for the day, Sunday 5th August, is the event day proper, but, the Saturday will have us doing many laps of practice. But be warned, we might grab you and get you to give us a bit of assistance!!!