Car 13 found...

Might be a bit late on this but...

 

http://forums.ctzcc.com/viewtopic.php?t=4114

nice one. plan to read that when i have a bit of time. just read the first long post by the guy that found it. people sure go nuts over numbers...

Woah nice. Is there a difference in Right hand drive numbers and Left hand number?

Just finished reading the topic....Wow....HS30-H, Allan knows his Zed cars..

 

 

I should have kept HS30-00016 then we would have something to check/reference

2 questions some of you might know, how many 240z all up were made? and whats the number HS30 goes up to?

2 questions some of you might know, how many 240z all up were made? and whats the number HS30 goes up to?

 

Were you Grimlock in a previous life.....?

 

The answers you seek padowan are all here, seek and ye shall find

Were you Grimlock in a previous life.....?

 

The answers you seek padowan are all here, seek and ye shall find

 

Sure was I named my zed got any links on this info? I'm fair lazy

Sure was I named my zed got any links on this info? I'm fair lazy

 

SLACKER!  

 

on the link after reading 8+ pages of

 

i personaly dont see the point of having the earliest car beside some fantasy its worth few extra quid more. well it is cause there are few that are obsessed at owning the lowest number car...

 

its like after footy in the shower rooms arguing whos got a bigger #@#!$ck just this one is whos got a lower number.

 

its like: "Oh  mines number 23 yeah but i got no 15 etc..... its still a freaking Z and it looks the same as number 23,56 or 500.  

 

if it was number 13 out of 13 fair enough but not 13 out of 500000+

 

sure still a good find but it ain't 432R to get me all tingly sorry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed RBZ

Yeah same here I'm just stoked I have a zed i dont care in the slightest how low the number is.

One of the reason I sold #16 was I like to modify my zed's and for those are into early numbers I would have been the biggest sinner to do that to such an early build + it was worth more to me to sell it so I could use the $$ for the deposit on my first block of land + there was the fact that I could not afford to do a resto on it when I already had one zed in bits.

 

It is one of 2 zeds I have owned that I did not take photos of and there was good reason - both zed that missed the photo ops were.....well in need of a bit --> a lot of TLC so #16 and my first 280zx 2 seater were too much of the "Do I want to keep a memory of these rusty cars?"

One of the reason I sold #16 was I like to modify my zed's and for those are into early numbers I would have been the biggest sinner to do that to such an early build + it was worth more to me to sell it so I could use the $$ for the deposit on my first block of land + there was the fact that I could not afford to do a resto on it when I already had one zed in bits.

 

It is one of 2 zeds I have owned that I did not take photos of and there was good reason - both zed that missed the photo ops were.....well in need of a bit --> a lot of TLC so #16 and my first 280zx 2 seater were too much of the "Do I want to keep a memory of these rusty cars?"

I commend you for selling the Z for those 2 reasons to get the land and more so to sell it to someone who can appreciate the number and restore it to its originality. I'm sure you have saved yourself copping some abuse from some people who are into that kind of thing. Smart move on those sides. End of the day think we all regret in a small or large way selling cars and passing them onto others, end of the day its usually for the best.

be fair keen to see these photo's if you can manage to dig them up, how long ago did you see it?

Been talking to Rob at the Z factory again about this and he tells me he has some Nissan paper work with some details of HS30 cars being built in 69. I need to get my hands on that!

 

Arch S30-series Z enthusiast Katsuhiko 'Kats' Endo was given access to some of Nissan Shatai's records a few years ago. One of the topics he was investigating was the question of the first cars produced ( pre-production prototypes, crash test cars, factory production trial cars, etc etc ) and the first cars to be given full serial numbers ( most of the pre-prod cars would not have been given numbers ).

 

Nissan Shatai's records showed that the very first car to be given a serial number was 'S30-00001' -  and as this was the first car to be given an 'identity' we can effectively consider it as the the first S30-series Z.

 

Second car to be given an identity was 'HLS30-00001' ( an LHD 'Export' spec '240Z' ), whilst the third was 'PS30-00001' ( a Fairlady Z432 ). Fourth car given an identity was 'HS30-00001' ( an RHD 'Export' spec '240Z' ) - so this effectively trashes the long claimed beliefs of certain USA-based 'experts' that no RHD '240Z' had been made in calendar year 1969.....

 

In fact, it appears that Nissan Shatai only made three HS30s in 1969, and it looks as though the 'oldest' HS30 released for actual sale to the public was 'HS30-00003'. Nissan's 'R-Drive' factory parts lists quote chassis no. 'HS30-00003' as being "from Oct. 1969" onwards, so the 'experts' obviously didn't have an RHD export parts list book in their libraries....

 

As we know, Nissan Shatai's Hiratsuka plant was a somewhat chaotic place in late 1969 and early 1970. There were problems with crankshaft harmonics on the new L24 engines and other little faults showed up in the 'Kaku U' north American testing ( two LHD cars - one of them an early automatic trans-equipped car - were transported to north America in late 1969 to be driven in a huge arc which included much of the USA and into Canada ) that caused them to halt production of the Export models. Domestic model production ( Fairlady Z, Fairlady Z-L, Fairlady Z432 & 432R ) carried on because they were - obviously - not affected by these L24 crank harmonics. Just under 1000 Domestic market cars were produced before the end of 1969. Export RHD ( ie - 'HS30' prefixed cars ) production was also halted, but it seems there were logistical and tactical reasons for this. 'HS30-00004' may well indeed have left the factory in early 1970, but its base body may have been produced in 1969 for all we know, but it's clear that very few Export RHD cars were produced in the first few months of 1970.

 

What's important about all this? Well, for years some of these USA-based Z 'experts' have preached that the S30-series Z was designed and made solely for the USA market. They want you to believe - just like they do - that all the other models and market versions are just some kind of side-effect or leftover from this big project to design "An American Car, Made In Japan". This is - to put it bluntly - complete bollocks. Naturally Nissan had a serious eye on the north American market when they were designing and building the car, and would have received input from their staff in the USA when they were working on it. It was always going to be the case that the USA market was going to be the biggest potential market for the car, especially if it was sold at an artificially low mark-up ( as it was ). This had been the case for the 510 Bluebird, and indeed it was the case for other manufacturers like MG, Triumph, ALFA Romeo, Porsche, VW and even Jaguar with their E-type - although you will very rarely see anyone try to make the case that such cars were "American cars", even if the USA was their single biggest export market with certain models in their ranges.

 

With the S30-series Z ( often mistakenly referred to as "the original 240Z", as it leaves out the early Domestic models ) you will see people claiming that the whole engineering and layout of the car is biased towards the USA market. This too is nonsense. A close look at the design of the car soon reveals the fact that its layout is biased towards mechanicals that are derived from an RHD-oriented manufacturer. The design of the engine an transmission affect the exhaust routing, and this in turn affects the fuel tank positioning. Chief Designer Yoshihiko Matsuo admits that these factors were inevitably going to affect the overall layout of the car, and that even if they had designed the car solely for the USA ( which they didn't! ) then this would still have been the case. Nissan wasn't going to design a new engine and trans series just for the USA... 

 

But what they did do, despite this force majeure of the mechanical layout, was to design a car that very cleverly suited both RHD and LHD, Domestic and Export versions, all of which were made possible by clever design and engineering at the concept stage. These cars were always going to be made for a potential 'World' market, and could be adapted in build to suit the different needs of such markets. So there's no real evidence of priority in the design ( although there IS natural 'Design Concession' ) and it is clear that very serious thought was given to duality of use in componentry ( look at that scuttle base pressing for instance, with two sets of holes for either RHD or LHD wiper layout ). Many details and components on our RHD ( Domestic and Export ) cars are present because they were required on the LHD Export cars, and many details and components on the LHD cars ( and not just the north American market versions, but the few 'Euro' versions too ) are present because of the requirements of one or more RHD market. There are even details on every car - regardless of market - that were there purely because the car was designed and built with an eye to sporting / competition use.

 

All of which is - I think - a very democratic and inclusive story. A story of a family of models / variants that were conceived, designed and engineered at the same time, and with equality. Unfortunately you just won't be told the story that way, because it doesn't fit in with the way that the car was introduced and marketed in the USA. That's why you'll read that "Car #13 has been found!!!" - even though it is patently not car #13.....

 

 

Alan T.                       

cheers Alan,

 

like you explanation.

 

to me sounds believable, pretty much most car companies (as well as non car) do that even today. its just logical. blah HLS30 was the first one just because yanks think they so freaking special   

 

i work in a bigger company (ok its not a car company) and use serial numbers for our products.

same story as with S30 usualy the first serial numbers have their quirks. most of the #1 to #20ish end up as test units at the factory and maybe few end up as field trials. its not till some later prob 20+ units start getting sold to public.Beleive it or not we also export to USA and they get their special models (110V mains) with new serial numbers. but guess what AUS and NZ were the firts to have it.

 

im still failing to see the big hoora about owning car #1 or car #500 that rolled off the line maybe days appart. pending on options they are the same freaking car.

 

im preety sure my #227 is same as someone elses #100 or #447 and #16 that ive only seen in the realy early number here. same quirks...

got even the original engine, vented hatch with optional vertical dimmer thats is still operational, fender mirrors etc......

 

Oh BTW did i say its getting an SR20DET conversion, flares, Bride seats, etc........ 

(hiding behind blast shield door and   )

 

to me the last one made is more special all the crap is kinda fixed and its the LAST car and no more after it period. nobody does end of line testing to knock your "special" numbered car.

 

now if some has a cool story about number #1 432R ill be very interested to read about it how they found #1 car.

So hs30-h, when are you writing us a book?

 

I wouldn't pay any extra money to have an early numbered z but if I happened to stumble across one I would be pretty stoked. But like Nzeder kinda said, I would want to do a concourse restoration on it which = money.

 

Here are some pics of 13

http://picasaweb.google.com/phil280zxt/20090822HLS3000013171#slideshow/5373000976478699938

 

 

Somone on zcar.com said they hoped the car stayed exactly as it is, which i thought strange but after seeing the pictures i think it would be great to have it trailered around or displayed somewhere exactly as it is.

 

now if some has a cool story about number #1 432R ill be very interested to read about it how they found #1 car.

Personally I think any PS30-SB (factory Z432-R) no matter what number is something special. Then a genuine Z432 (PS30-xxxxx) I would not care what chassis number it was just having one would be an honour.

 

I would be more interested these special limited production models and the number that might have made their way out of Japan. It would be good to know if any made it to our shores (AU or NZ).

 

Also it would be interesting to know if any Works cars or parts made it to our part of the world. I see this as more important than finding or owning a low build 240z, now factor in the share number that were sold in the US a low chassis number outside of the first 1-2 sold into the US (as RBZ260 points out) is no more special than another low chassis numbered car (racing history excluded as these have more historical value IMHO.)

 

For those racers would it not be better to own a 240z that has race history back to the 70's than HS30-000223, ie say HS30-001225 was used by local racer in the 70's using parts from the options list with log books in-tacked be worth more to you than a zed without the history that is a lower build/chassis number?