Make a stand against the new hoon legislation!

[MATTY]

I know many of you on here have your view and or story to tell about the new hoon legislation and amendments that are passed and ones that are trying to be passed. well nows your time to make your stand and get your view and opinion out there! Grunt files have a campaign started doing just that. its simple as writing a letter to your local members of parliament expressing your view in a formal form obviously. the more facts and stats you can provide to help aid your story the better.

 

for some that may read this and not bother doing anything and say 'oh it wont change anything' or 'hows that going to help?' is not the right attitude to have if your a member of a car club and you go on club meets or cruise's then these laws affect you as these meets and events are clasifyed as hooning under the new legislation if you like it or not.

 

further more a bill that is on the table at parliament at the moment which was submitted on the 27 of Nov 2012 -

 

Police Powers & Responsibilities (Motor Vehicle Impoundment) and Other Legislation amendment Bill 2012

 

where in short this bill if passed will give police the power to be judge, jury and executioner where if convicted of a hoon offence you wont be processed through the courts but rather in an administratively manner taking away your right to a fair trail, even scum like murderers and rapist get a trial. yet enthuisasts dont!?

 

here is the link to the grunt file campaign and additional information to help write your letter to your local member of parliament

 

http://gruntfiles.com/index.php/send-a-letter-campaign

 

the more people who stand up against this the better there is no need to cop this harassment for doing something that is our passion and for some there lively hood. so if you enjoy and value such meets then get to writing!

 

 

****also im sorry if this upsets any members here, thats not my goal just trying to voice my opinions and ways we can help each other in this matter***

Matty

[MaygZ]

where in short this bill if passed will give police the power to be judge, jury and executioner where if convicted of a hoon offence you wont be processed through the courts but rather in an administratively manner taking away your right to a fair trail, even scum like murderers and rapist get a trial. yet enthuisasts dont!?

 

That's not how I read the ammendments.  I read that a vehicle can be impounded or immobilised once a 'charge' is initiated.  This charge can be intiated by Charge, charge and summons or by Penalty Notice (Infringment notice/ticket).  All of these allow the charged person to have their day in court.  If the charge is dismissed or the person is not found guilty of the offence, I'm certain that relevant costs could be claimed.

 

Whilst the proposed ammendment to the Act doesn't go into what is 'modified'.  I'm sure it doesn't take aim at responsibly modified vehicles (ie those that are in line with the modification guidelines or those that are signed off by an engineer).

 

The Act takes aim at hoons; doing burnouts, excessive speed, unlicecensed drivers, drink drivers, disqualified drivers etc.

 

So what is your main concern with the Act or the ammendments?

[Wayne G]

May I suggest you read the bill entirely.  It appears that there are several inefficient sections of legislation that are being fixed and the legislature is removing the decision in the first instance from weak magistrates.  Any impounding of vehicles can be appealed by the aggrieved to the commissioner of police and then if unsatisfied to a magistrate.

 

Interestingly you appear to have missed the really concerning changes, being the definition of what a burnout is and the inclusion high speed alone offences, and the change of the initial aim of the act being to target repeat offenders to a new aim of targeting bad drivers, by allowing subsequent offences to be of any of the type 1 or 2 offences, not just the same type.

 

Ultimately, if I behave this won't impact me.

[luvemfast]

Ultimately, if I behave this won't impact me.

Truer words have never been spoken!

[stevo_gj]

Ultimately, if I behave this won't impact me.

 

Ditto!

[MATTY]

Well depending on your source for a definition of a burn out its either where noise and or smoke are emitted from the rear wheels of a vehicle or where there is loss of traction from the wheels. Its the smaller things that police try to use to get you on something for instance that defects can fall in to hoon legislation. The problem over all that people with modified vehicles arnt the problem. I've had fellow members of the car club tell me they have been targeted for things like number plate placement, as most police officers state the rule are just by there interpretation just so they can get them on a technicality such as tired placards. How man of you have them on your datsuns? If you don't have one of those weather your vehicle needs one or not you can be fined.

 

All in all I'm for tougher hoon laws but its people in car clubs doing the right thing that seem to copy the flak and we call get tarred with the same bush. Police should focus more on the real goons than enthusiasts.

 

 

[.]

The problem is the "hoon" laws are ambiguos. So if a police officer hasa nasty streak and takes a disliking to you they can find something to categorise you as a hoon. If you accelerate off the lights, even if there is no wheel spin, smoke or noise they could still claim you were hooning even though there was no specific rule broken. If they want to target bad behaviour, no problem, make sure there is rules and supporting legislation that targets that specific behaviour.

 

Its much like the bikie laws. They target a broader group because of a minority that do the wrong thing. They need to stop being lazy and target the specific behaviours.

[MaygZ]

Well depending on your source for a definition of a burn out

 

It's defined in the Act.  You don't need to find another source for the definition.

 

 

The problem is the "hoon" laws are ambiguous.

 

No they're not.  They're very strictly defined.  There is whole Act of Parliament devoted to them.  There are about 15 different driving behaviours that constitute a 'Hoon' offence.  All of them are pretty cut and dry - it is either done or it isn't.

 

If you accelerate off the lights, even if there is no wheel spin, smoke or noise they could still claim you were hooning even though there was no specific rule broken.

There is a specific 'rule' broken.  It is important to realise that the 'rule' relates to a 'sustained' burnout - not a squeak at the lights.

 

 

If they want to target bad behaviour, no problem, make sure there is rules and supporting legislation that targets that specific behaviour.

?? - Isn't this what is being discussed?  There are either pre-existing 'rules' or new 'rules' have been legislated to create the offence sections.

 

 

 

that defects can fall in to hoon legislation.

 

What?  Where in the Act do you even see the word 'defects'?  The Act refers to illegally modified vehicles.  You can't get your car impounded for the wipers not working!  Car enthusiasts modify their cars responsibly; they ensure they are safe and comply with Legislation/guidelines for modification.

 

 

they have been targeted for things like number plate placement, as most police officers state the rule are just by there interpretation just so they can get them on a technicality ....

??  Number plate issue, fitment and location is quite specifically detailed in the Road Safety Act 1986 (Vic) and I know that there is a very high level of uniformity between the States in regards to these Acts.  In 1999 they even developed the Australian Road Rules that was adopted by each State across the country.

 

Number plates most be fitted so as to be clearly read from 20m from the front and rear of the vehicle up to a 45 deg angle from the centre line of the car left, right and vertically.  That's hardly interpretive!

 

All in all I'm for tougher hoon laws but its people in car clubs doing the right thing that seem to copy the flak and we call get tarred with the same bush. Police should focus more on the real goons than enthusiasts.

I'm pretty sure that anyone (car club or not) who is doing the right thing is not going to cop the 'flak'.  I'm also sure that cops don't focus on enthusiasts - unless by enthusiast you mean the "I'm very enthusiastic about my car.  You should see what I've done to it to make it fully sic.  I've got 19x9's on the front and 15x4s on the back with bald tyres, I've got a huge blow off valve that plays the french national anthem, and a 700Hp stereo.  I hope the coppers don't pull me over." type enthusiasts.

 

 

Driving a car is a privilege not a right.  'Hoon' legislation is designed and implemented to remove the privilege from those that abuse the privilege.

Don't speed (+40), do have a licence, do register your car, don't drink/drug drive, don't do burnouts/drift on the streets, don't race on the streets, don't 'sic' your car, don't drive like a fun quit.

 

More people die or are seriously injured on our roads each year than are murdered or die of heroin overdose combined.  And we all know what we would like to happen to murders and/or drug dealers!

[MATTY]

??  Number plate issue, fitment and location is quite specifically detailed in the Road Safety Act 1986 (Vic) and I know that there is a very high level of uniformity between the States in regards to these Acts.  In 1999 they even developed the Australian Road Rules that was adopted by each State across the country.

 

Number plates most be fitted so as to be clearly read from 20m from the front and rear of the vehicle up to a 45 deg angle from the centre line of the car left, right and vertically.  That's hardly interpretive!

 

that is the same rule here in QLD but you try telling a police officer that they arent at the correct angle or distance and it makes it worse. i have been harassed personally over a number plate placement on a 180sx with a factory rear bumber that had passed ADR compliancing without a problem, but as soon as you try to argue the fact that most tray back utes would fail this rule its unrelated.

 

What?  Where in the Act do you even see the word 'defects'?  The Act refers to illegally modified vehicles.  You can't get your car impounded for the wipers not working!  Car enthusiasts modify their cars responsibly; they ensure they are safe and comply with Legislation/guidelines for modification.

 

police if they feel that your vehicle is unsafe to drive depending the condition being even if it is your wipers not working correctly can and will defect or impond your car if it is danger to other motorists,  now you try telling a police officer what is or isnt a illegal mod? im sure it was in Vic where a certain traffic officer was targeting people and accusing them of illegal mods which by memory was the day time driving lights fitted to the new FT86 which have a similar set up to that of the L.E.D light strip the VE's have. itwas on facebook and it make a few headlines because of his behaviour.

 

I'm pretty sure that anyone (car club or not) who is doing the right thing is not going to cop the 'flak'.  I'm also sure that cops don't focus on enthusiasts - unless by enthusiast you mean the "I'm very enthusiastic about my car.  You should see what I've done to it to make it fully sic.  I've got 19x9's on the front and 15x4s on the back with bald tyres, I've got a huge blow off valve that plays the french national anthem, and a 700Hp stereo.  I hope the coppers don't pull me over." type enthusiasts.

 

^^^ the type of enthuiast's you described there are the real definition for a hoon. several meets held by the car club that i am a paying member of have had police waiting out side meet with ticket book in hand trying to find problems of reasons to harass us. how is that not targeting?? while fully heckit cars with cut springs and shit exhaust's drive by with out notice

 

majority of police see a modified car as a bad thing weather its been done correctly or not. if hoon laws are not aimed at every one including enthusiasts then why would the grunt files try to weigh in on the argument to help protect people doing the right thing under what is basically gestapo style governing?

 

[sco_aus]

lol MaygZ, well spoken. 

Look, it happens, there are some cops hell bent on finding reasons, but usually after being pissed off by the driver.  I have always been polite and never once been picked on  (in fact quite the opposite) when they could have found things to get me for.  Maybe I am lucky, maybe it's my attitude, but either way, if you do the right thing, you will have a leg to stand on.

[MaygZ]

police .... can and will defect or impond your car if it is danger to other motorists, 

 

Sounds fair to me.

 

gestapo style governing?

 

I don't know about that as I live in the 'Nanny State'.  We don't have Gestapo Nannies patrolling the streets.

 

 

it was on facebook and it make a few headlines because of his behaviour.

 

If it was on Facebook it has to be true and surely a balanced and accurate narrative of the facts.

 

Therefore, you're right.  Any laws passed to save the lives of people are simply not worth the effort 'cause Facebook reckons that a cop somewhere gave someone a hard time.

 

You are also right, because 'Grunt Files' is against it, then it has to be a bad thing.  I guess that if I searched Wikipedia I would find that these laws are part of some larger conspiracy to keep the people down while 'The Man' gets rich or more powerful or something else we don't want 'The Man' to get.

 

How do you type sarcasm? 

 

Matty it sounds to me like you are more against Police than this legislation.  I know lots of Police and yes some of them are tools, but most of the police involved in traffic law love cars.  Responsible driver's of interesting cars might be pulled over, but that will be so the cop can look over a nicely done car.  They also pull over kokheads who give them crap about "why aren't out getting real criminals?" and get significant job satisfaction from fooking their days!  All of us choose which we are going to be long before we get pulled over!

 

Dirty Harry voice:- "You've gotta ask yourself just one question.  Which one am I?"

[zzzzed]

If it was on Facebook it has to be true and surely a balanced and accurate narrative of the facts.

 

I know this guy and it did happen. He posted a video on face book of him self doing 260 king in his brand new ford gt-r spec. The first comment that was posted was my mate telling him what a Wayne cer he was for posting it on face book and for doing it at all.

He ended up with his car impounded and loss of license.

He didn't learn though because I saw him out hooning in his vy monaro a week later.

He deserves to have his car crushed and to be made to watch it

[pauly_adams]

i live in NSW and we do get harrased sometimes by the police, as for defects i have seen my fair share of people getting them and i must say all but one where warranted, i use to get pulled over at least 3 to 4 times a week whist i was on my p's and only one time i had a cop who tryed to defect my car as my carbs did not have a stock air cleaner, a simple call to his superior sorted this out quick smart, most of the cops where i live are good people but there are a couple that are arses. for being pulled over due to a copper liking my car this has also happend i was more then happy for him to have a look. moral to the story "if your not doing anything wrong your not going to get done for hooning"

[luvemfast]

Dirty Harry voice:- "You've gotta ask yourself just one question.  Which one am I?"

I know lots of Police and yes some of them are tools

 

I think you've answered your own question.................... 

[d3c0y]

This is interesting, pretty much the first forum i have seen this debate where members are actually in support of the laws.

 

I think that generally its not the "hooning" per-say that is the problem, its how much discretion a particular officer is given on the spot.

If Mr plod is having a shiver day he can take it out on you quite easily.

 

"Cabinet has agreed to a proposal to impound the cars of hoon drivers for three months after their first serious offence.Those who offended again within five years would have their cars forfeited, to be sold or crushed."

All this can happen from spirited driving on back roads ( i got caught 36kph over in an 80 zone on a B road at the start of the year and was hardly driving my stock L24 powered car hard) to people who put carbs on the 280ZX (illegal mod).

 

You going to get a mod plate for your modified suspension MaygZ? That is an illegal mod that could potentially get your car confiscated up here. I guess if you are asking, by the look of it you are a hoon.

 

OK you can appeal it now through two high level bodies, (because magistrates were overturning people's cars getting crushed - precedent set in SA) but having to go through that for what could be relatively mister-miner offences is excessive.

[sco_aus]

"You going to get a mod plate for your modified suspension MaygZ? That is an illegal mod that could potentially get your car confiscated up here. I guess if you are asking, by the look of it you are a hoon.?

 

bahahahah, ahahahah.  You hoon MaygZ!

[peter t]

Dye your hair grey like mine and you won't have a problem.

[nizm0zed]

I wasnt going to weigh in on this, but i'll add my piece....

 

Im not for OR against these 'hoon' laws. never have been, never will be.

To me, the whole thing seems flawed, biased and only about due to knee jerk reactions drummed up by a clever media looking for tv ratings then implemented by political forces looking towards keeping the easy conservative voter in their pocket.

I'll start by saying, if you want to play, be prepared to pay. you do the wrong thing and get caught, cop it on the chin and accept the consequences.

What i do have a BIG problem with is the defect system thats currently in place.

Its very carefully worded to say that 'in the officers opinion your car is dangerous/unsafe/unroadworthy and needs to be presented to an authorised inspection station to be inspected by a trained and licenced professional'

Its the opinion bit i have a problem with, the officer isnt an engineer, nor is he a rego inspector, nor a mechanic, so he has no basis for making a claim other than using sensible judgement and experience.

So what if the cop thinks that the maximum your allowed in increasing the size of your wheels is 2" bigger, 1" wider?

That is a common one that most people seem to believe, and its very wrong.

So, the officer uses his 'opinion', says its defected, writes you out a defect, adds on a fine and sends you off to an inspection station.

When you get there you pay your $50 for the inspection, the mechanic measures your wheels, signs it off saying "track has not been increased more than 25mm, rolling diameter not increased greater than 25mm than the largest tyre offered by the manufacturer for this vehicle"

Do you get your $50 back for the inspection? no.

Do you get the money you paid for the defect fine? no.

So because of one person's opinion you are now out of pocket $100-200

That, in my opinion (lol) is wrong.

But if the police are entitled to their opinion, why cant you tell that that in your own opinion you think that they are being draconian assholes?

well, you can if you really want, but i wouldnt advise it, all of a sudden they decide to use their 'opinion' to find more things wrong with your car and you pay more money based on their mood/opinion/power going to their head ect ect.

Now, given the fact that they can generate revenue because of an opinon, and that the media loves to make a huge deal out of nothing, you cant say that they dont have targets to be met to 'catch hoons'

I have been to car shows/club meets and seen cops who wait outside the event ready to pounce on their victims and bring in the revenue.

Oh there really are some deadshits that deserve everything that they get, and they do bring it all down on the rest of us.

I beleive that better driver education and stricter licencing would thin them out, because if it was harder to legally drive a car, you could reasonably increase the penalties for being caught driving without a licence/unregistered ect.

But why change the system when its making a motza of cash? then they'd need to get revenue from somewhere else.

 

As for grunt files jumping on this bandwagon, im sure there are responsible people there, but their core audience are the stereotype bogan who does rip skids on the street, doesnt even bother to follow the rules and then has the gall to complain when they get targeted

"Why are these piggas hasslin me? they should go catch some real crims, fuggin pigs..."

Yup, you have all heard it before....

Funnily enough its usually the same sterotype that makes the most noise about the laws being unfair.

 

/my rambling 2c

[MATTY]

here is the report of the officer who was harssing some one over a 'supposed' illegal mod when its a factory fitted option.

 

http://video.news.ninemsn.com.au/?uuid=b0f32abb-7997-40db-a0ff-dff79025af1c

 

obvioulsy the law and rules differ from state to state, but i suppose until someone on here is doing the right thing but still get pulled up and cop a bull shit fine or defect i guess you wont understand unlike people who have been in that situation before.

 

its funny how some dont think that these laws effect them to an extent but each to there own opinion i guess.

 

Matty it sounds to me like you are more against Police than this legislation.  I know lots of Police and yes some of them are tools, but most of the police involved in traffic law love cars.  Responsible driver's of interesting cars might be pulled over, but that will be so the cop can look over a nicely done car.  They also pull over kokheads who give them crap about "why aren't out getting real criminals?" and get significant job satisfaction from fooking their days!  All of us choose which we are going to be long before we get pulled over!

 

i do have a problem with the police officers who try to defect you for something they dont even understand. for example i have had a cop who defected me for a loud exhaust (mind you it was past midnight) because he thought it was too loud. he then proceeded to check over the car(it was a 300TT for info's sake) popped the bonnet to see two clear as day non plumbed back atmosphere venting BOV which yes i knew were illegal and then said yep it all looks legal to me. wrote a ticket for the exhuast got it tested and came back just with in legal Db range yet i still lost a point and a cash.

 

obviously i must be one of these "fully sick" type of hoons if im being targeted by police as explained by some of the members here.

[d3c0y]

I agree and what's worse, in the QLD case that defect whim might not just be financial. They will have the power to impounded your car on the spot or even crushed if it happens a couple of times in a FIVE YEAR period!!

 

 

I live on a roundabout and have to put up with bogans ripping skids through it late at night and early in the morning, so i am also not totally against policing it to some degree. But this is not the right way to do it.

 

 

This brings up the age old point of the lack of motor sport facilities and them being $200 a pop to visit. They have even closed down all the MX tracks around here so now i have to travel 2 hours and pay nearly $100 in fuel and fees just to ride my dirt bike.

 

 

Way to go politicians.

[Luni260z]

i live in NSW and we do get harrased sometimes by the police, as for defects i have seen my fair share of people getting them and i must say all but one where warranted, i use to get pulled over at least 3 to 4 times a week whist i was on my p's and only one time i had a cop who tryed to defect my car as my carbs did not have a stock air cleaner, a simple call to his superior sorted this out quick smart, most of the cops where i live are good people but there are a couple that are arses. for being pulled over due to a copper liking my car this has also happend i was more then happy for him to have a look. moral to the story "if your not doing anything wrong your not going to get done for hooning"

 

I concur re nsw cops.

Theyd pull me over frequently in my zed. Once my Z was parked in my driveway  (i wasn't in the car and hadn't driven it that day). Cop demanded I show him my engineers certificate.

I pointed out the car was original. He refused to accept my word and said he was stickering my car. I had to rummage in the garage for my Haynes manual to show him. Dick didn't even apologise.

 

Under the new laws he could possibly impound my car simply because he thought it didn't look legit. Sure i could get it back after clearing up the mess, but does that make it acceptable?

 

The argument that you shouldn't worry about over reaching police powers if you do nothing wrong is just silly.

 

Cops def target sports cars.  I drive to the speed limit, but I sometimes like to get there quickly. I remember a few times thrashing my 120y to the limit past cops and they didn't look twice.  Hoon laws are a bit much. There is already significant penalties for speeding, defective cars etc.

 

Im with ya OP.

[Fairlady Z]

Wasn't going to say anything but i have been affected by this hoon laws and still battling to clear it up.

 

I didnt have issue with police as matter of fact they were the only ones thats saw the truth and didnt buy the crap that was alledged i was doing.

 

Media,politics and few anti car people has made it harder than ever.

 

Yes get the idiots.Had few down my street and called the police on them few times with video footage. Well its been lot better now. Cars defected and impounded and ratbags have moved out.

 

I had been pulled over and hassled because of the car but never defected. They do see you not the typical idiot and let you go. If you are well you deserv it

 

Just saying dont accept all the hype and changes in name of safety its an excuse for revenue raising in some cases. Though havent been affected by it directly. Indirectly its causing me lot off issues.

 

You will get done just because you not driving a sensible a to b car. Well i do have a problem with that.

 

Anyway can't say details will update when case is closed whenever that may be.