'Early' zed dates- what do you classify as 'early'?

[zanzee01]

Apologies if this has been posted somewhere already, I couldn't find it.

I am wondering, I hear alot about people having an 'early' chassis number zeds, be that in a 260z coupe or 260z 2+2, but I don't know what would be classified as an early chassis number for the zeds?

Would it be hypothetically before GRS30001000 and RS30001000 respectively or am I being generous? Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks 

 

 

[chris240]

When the guys refer to early numbers, they are nearly always referring to the 240z.. Basically anything series 1 from 1970 is "considered" an early girl. A sub 500 number is pretty good, a sub 200 is rare, sub 50 is hens dentures. Others may have differing opinions. 

[Agno]

A lot of people define an "early" 240Z as the ones with the different B pillar emblems and rear hatch vents. As far as I'm aware there isn't a definite number which corresponds to the end of the early zeds but those items are probably the easiest way to tell.

[Ledge]

Hi

I would agree with Agno, Series 1 240z with the rear vents in the hatch not the rear 1/4's

 

Paul

[zanzee01]

Thanks for the info everyone , so what would *personal* opinions be on, say...

RS30000972?

 

[chris240]

No big deal really.

Is 972 your car or your looking....? If your looking , forget numbers and buy condition. Unless its sub 100 and your really into the numbers.

[zanzee01]

Ok cool.

She's all mine  was just having a curiousity moment, the previous owner seemed to put alot of importance on the numbers, but now with a bit more info (thanks) I'm not worried.

:D

[NZeder]

Re the question you have asked I go along with Ango so that for our rhd cars is 1970 cars basically those with no 1/4 vents diffent badges, diff more forward, A type gearbox, choke and crude cruse control leavers etc.

 

As far as the 260z range, well there where less made vs the 240z (talking 2 seaters) so a 260z 2seater is rarer than a 240z by a factor of about 500% (25000ish 260z 2seaters vs 125000ish 240z in rhd). An early 260z 2 seater has parts that are hard to find due to their slight difference to the 240z and later 260z. Ie doors and window regulators for one, interior trim...the list goes on.

 

However 260z 2seater are not seen as collectable as said early 240z and this stems from the old adage that there first model of a series will always be the one seen to be the most desirable (but if we look at the S30 as a full range then forgot the export models and surely Fairlady Z432 is the most desirable and sub 200 of these will almost be built using the same early shell as those early 240z)

 

Well that is my opinion Z432 first and for most anything after that who cares you have a S30 you are one of us

[zanzee01]

and for most anything after that who cares you have a S30 you are one of us

Aww that's a nice thing to say

My Zeds and I might make us some friends yet! LOL

[thriller]

To make matters more confusing, after the series 1 bodies were finished, it seems that Nissan used as much of their leftover parts as possible, putting series 1 parts onto the cars immediately after. So they could be series... 1.5.... Seems they did this till roughly the early #1000's?

 

I don't think many prospective or current Z owners care too much about chassis numbers, a good, solid, clean and bog free car seems more important to most. But it's still a fun talking point!

[Zedman240®]

Series 1 240's upto and around numbers 480-485? had the vents on the hatch and no tool boxes along with the other bits mentioned and as Thriller said, many left overs were used in other zeds built after that. Even 260's had the mixture of parts from the 76- late 77 cars that I have seen. Alan (HS30-H) would be the best person to ask....

[Fairlady Z]

Series 1 240's upto and around numbers 480-485? had the vents on the hatch and no tool boxes along with the other bits mentioned and as Thriller said, many left overs were used in other zeds built after that. Even 260's had the mixture of parts from the 76- late 77 cars that I have seen. Alan (HS30-H) would be the best person to ask....

 

Yeah im Nzeder, Dimitri and others saying the same thing

 

I've also seen lots of adds saying early car around 1K Vin range in 260z etc... bit misleading but arguable.

 

Early model to me is series 1 of the new range. 240 260z to me are still same car. 280zx is new model. so you could have early S1 280zx. As the chassis designator changed and numbers kinda reset you could argue the early car of the new range.

 

Why early S30 cars are little bit more special (besides rusting to buggery due to no primer on inside of the panels ,one quirk i wouldn't mind being without) are the whole range of quirks not available on later models. it appears roughly the first 500 (approx 70, 71) cars imported into country to have the complete range of differences as mentioned above by NZeder and Zedman compared to later models.

 

That was the only big deal about early cars (ie finding that rusty less practical quirky car with issues that later got fixed on later models) as they didn't last long and not many around.

 

Strange thing is i'm having more issues finding parts for more common later ones than the early Z.

 

Its a Z. who cares about numbers. on the road you be hard pressed to figure out the differences.

[HS30-H]

Please remember that all these "Series 1" and "Series 2" terms were never created or used by Nissan themselves. They are terms that were coined by enthusiasts in response to certain changes, largely because they needed some way of differentiating between the cars made with different specs and details. It's almost exclusively a north American thing, but it's been picked up by the rest of the world and people now try to apply the 'Series 1' and 'Series 2' terms to cars seen in other Export markets which, in my opinion, is a big mistake.

 

For example, you might think that the mainland European ( French, German, Dutch, Belgian, Swiss, Portuguese, Scandinavian etc ) 'HLS30' prefixed models - which even shared their chassis numbering sequence with the north American market 'HLS30' prefixed models don't forget - would conform to the 'Series 1' and 'Series 2' changes seen in the USA and Canada. Well, for the most part they did, but there were many detail differences. Anybody who followed the north American specs thinking that they were prime, that they were king, would be confused when comparing - say - a Dutch market 'HLS30' made in January 1970, as it would have a 5-speed trans, 3.9 diff, a rear anti roll bar, front air spoiler, a faster ratio steering rack and stiffer spring and damper rates. All stuff not seen in the north American market on standard cars made during the same period. 

 

The factory never differentiated between S30-series Z cars in this 'Series' way, and most of the modifications, spec changes and parts supersessions were made on a rolling basis. They didn't stop the production line and say "OK, let's start the Series 2 cars now...". They phased updates in as and when they were ready, and as and when they would work with eachother, and they noted these changes in service bulletins that were sent out to dealers. If any of you have seen the Japanese market 'Service Shuho' booklets ( there are 11 of them for the S30-series Z alone ) you will be familiar with the amount of changes and updates that were compiled into each issue. There were hundreds of small - and big - changes all the way through production. There were a lot - sometimes due to Force Majeure - that didn't even get catalogued or explained to us 'civilians'.

 

I'm also surprised to see people talking about "left over" parts being used on cars, as though Nissan had mountainous stockpiles of parts that they had to use up, will-nilly, on anything that they could attach them to. It makes Nissan, and Nissan Shatai in particular, sound like a bit of a back yard outfit! I think the truth is that what might look fairly haphazard to us - looking in from outside - was actually quite well planned and handled on the production side. Our problem is that we didn't have it explained to us fully at the time, so we tend to go back and try to put it all into some kind of order retrospectively, and quite a lot of guessing goes on. I often read of people talking about 260Zs having "left over" 240Z bodyshells ( what...!? ) and late 260Zs having "280Z" bodyshells ( before the S30-series '280Z' even debuted in north America ), and these are good examples of well-meaning but wrong-headed thinking. Nissan didn't work like that, and for most of S30-series Z production I think I'm right in saying that the majority of components were something like a few weeks older than the car they were fitted to. Nissan was operating the 'just in time' system of parts supply to Nissan Shatai, and they would not have had mountains of door catches sitting there with nothing to fit them to because the design got changed.

 

As to the question about "early", I'd say that you can cut that several ways. For me, any Z car built in 1969 automatically qualifies for 'early' production status, but when you start getting into the 1000s it starts getting a bit rubbery. However, you could easily argue ( and I would! ) that an HS30-prefixed RHD Export car made in mid to late 1970 is also an 'early' example of its type, and is certainly rarer than an HLS30-prefixed car that was built several months before it. It's a fairly subjective topic, and personal preference must come into it.

 

Some people ( I'm one of them... ) enjoy looking for - and trying to understand - "early" production nuances and detail differences. Call it "rivet counting" if you want ( I started counting spotwelds and measuring spaces between them at one point.... ) but I think it's fascinating to see how the factory, and the people actually making the components - king of which is the bodyshell itself - got better at it as they went along, found new ways to do them, or even got a little bit lazy on a Friday afternoon and didn't do quite as well as they should with the welder. It's all good stuff, and there's always something new to learn and more questions to ask......           

[thriller]

I learn something more with every single post of yours I see scattered over the various Z forums. You probably get told this enough, but please write a book one day!

[RB26DETT]

Does anyone know what is the highest numbered HS30 shell made without the toolboxes behind the seats and just with the punched round holes?

 

I picked up #220 and it doesn't have the toolboxes so was keen to know this.

[dalee]

my first 240z in bought in 1997 was #373 and it didnt have tool boxes.

[Zedman240®]

Numbers below 480something didn't have the compartments..