Gordon Dobie

[Sirpent]

Hi,

 

Last night just after midnight I recieved a msg as follows below, apparently from Gordon Dobie, Im not sure if anyone else recieved it.

 

This may be a practicle joke in which case hey good for you, however, if it is then its a sad one using Gordon Dobie's name.

 

If on the other hand it was from Gordon, then I'd like to welcome you to the forum and look forward to reading every post you honor us with

 

The following is the PM I recieved.

Hello fellow Datsun/Nissan enthusiasts

 

Having retired from active participation in recent years I have spent a lot of time traveling various parts of the world.

 

I have only recently become aware of the AusZcar site and I would like to make it known that contrary to one comment I have read I am always willing to help anyone with advice or information regarding participation of the Datsun Racing Team and any information regarding the cars built and prepared by myself during almost 40 years in the sport.

 

In answer to the question of the 260Z 2+2 Bathurst car. The car failed to comply as a touring car due to lack of sufficient leg-room in the rear and was therefore excluded.

 

Pleased to help any time

Gordon Dobie

[luvemfast]

Could be Gordon, a wealth of knowledge on these cars.

What was the comment?  Hope its nothing I've said, trying to think...........

 

Edit

There is something in an old thread about him being retired and not too interested in cars now days.

This may be true, but he always seems happy for a chat.

He's fogotten more than most of us would know!

[Sirpent]

Think it may relate to a comment appearing on page 2 of this thread.

 

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,5743.msg49481.html#msg49481

 

However, it was posted by Lurch as it APPEARED on another forum that was monitoring our thread 

 

 

[FuzzyDropbear]

Hmmm, interesting.. My 2+2 parts car was apparently built by the Datsun Racing Team but I just assumed it was just 'sellers spin' (from the bloke my mate bought it from). But would like to have a chat to Gordon if he was around the forums, to clarify.. 

[Gordo]

Guy's . I think it's great that Gordon has jumped on board. As he has said, he has only just found the Auszclub site. I don't see any reson to belive it is not him.

[bluerat]

That bugger's the theroy of using a 2+2 as a sports sedan, in Nd (if there is ever such a class is started) or if you find the old group C log book in Historic Group C. Not that I was ever going to do it, but i liked the idea that you could!

 

Gorden is one bloke who needs to write a book, serious, what a ripper of a read it would be. Like everyone else I got the John Wright 40 year book the other day, and what a huge disapointment. There was nothing about when they first came to Aust, how many were sent? What date? the three Aust rally championships they won, the works rally cars that came over....Like I said Dobies book could be a ripper!! Although I do like the idea that it might just be my car on page 17 (Or Lurches).

 

Hodgo

[Sirpent]

Guy's . I think it's great that Gordon has jumped on board. As he has said, he has only just found the Auszclub site. I don't see any reson to belive it is not him.

 

It's hard to tell, I spoke to Gordon over a year ago on the phone for about 30 min's and he was aware the group existed, then again maybe he didnt since there are a number of Z related forums.

 

I also told him that we all really wanted to get more insight into those golden years he experienced and would love to interview him, thats pretty much where it ended.

 

I'm just suprised I was the only one who recieved the PM from him, and at the same time the way it was written as if to a number of ppl rather than personally.

 

Anyhow, I guess when he logs on next he will read this, in the meanwhile it would be great if Gav could check the IP address and see if it isnt someone playing a gag, if it is Im not impressed.

[gav240z]

Anyhow, I guess when he logs on next he will read this, in the meanwhile it would be great if Gav could check the IP address and see if it isnt someone playing a gag, if it is Im not impressed.

 

Hi mate,

I received the same PM yesterday and assumed it had just gone to me. I replied and encouraged him to say hello in the introduction part of the site and that many of our members would be very happy to hear from him.

 

Quick edit* - I see no reason to doubt it's him. All the IP address can tell me is that it was from a Telstra user and probably someone in Melbourne. However that's not to confirm it is / isn't him.

 

Hopefully he'll say hello soon and you can all pick his brain .

[GV260]

It makes you wonder about CAMS if as Gordon quoted "In answer to the question of the 260Z 2+2 Bathurst car. The car failed to comply as a touring car due to lack of sufficient leg-room in the rear and was therefore excluded." yet 911's and Alfa's were still eligible yet they wouldn't had more rear leg room than a 2+2..........

 

 

[bluerat]

RX-7's as well. There was a very complicated formula they had to comply with, maybe the sum's didn't add up. It's a shame, a Group C 2+2 could of looked pretty tough with flairs, big wheels etc but making competitive power through the Std inlet manifold would of been a draw back.

 

Come on 260DET don't disapoint me........

[zedrally]

I doubt it would have been CAMS (Confederation Against Motorsport), more likely outside interest groups that felt threatened by the appearance of a Zed 2+2 Bathurst Car. A quick meeting with the subsequent re-writing of the "rules" would have followed.

Unless a competitor was pissed off enough to protest it then it becomes a "fait accomplai".

 

The Bathurst GTR saga is a well documented case, one that the racing community should hang it's head in shame for.

 

[bluerat]

What the......

[260DET]

RX-7's as well. There was a very complicated formula they had to comply with, maybe the sum's didn't add up. It's a shame, a Group C 2+2 could of looked pretty tough with flairs, big wheels etc but making competitive power through the Std inlet manifold would of been a draw back.

 

Come on 260DET don't disapoint me........

 

The only person I disappoint is the gf, errrr, anyway, the whole sportscar racing thing in AU is pretty sad, its basically histronics or nothing. S30's still compete in the US against all sorts of cars including the modern stuff. Here four doors rule.

 

This Dobie bloke needs to write a book otherwise all the early Z racing knowledge will eventually disappear.

[luvemfast]

I'm with you there, dad upset heaps of people at the NDSOC AGM last year when he cracked it about the cars that were allowed in the club as they weren't "Marque" sports cars.........

When I asked him why he didn't recognise 200SX'x and even GTR's as sports cars, he couldn't give me a def-finate answer...... Its all crap an wreecks of personal opinion!

[Sirpent]

Where for art thou Gordon ?

 

Our father who art in retirement,

Hallowed be thy name,

 

Thy kingdom come, it will be done

Today as it twas in 1970

 

Give us this day our daily ride

And forgive our trespasses (driving hairdressers cars)

As we forgive those that tresspass against us and drive MX-5's etc

 

And lead us not into temptation (driving Commodes and XR6's)

But help us rid our builds of all evils.

 

Amen

 

(Sorry Rev)

[zedrally]

I'm with you there, dad upset heaps of people at the NDSOC AGM last year when he cracked it about the cars that were allowed in the club as they weren't "Marque" sports cars.........

When I asked him why he didn't recognise 200SX'x and even GTR's as sports cars, he couldn't give me a def-finate answer...... Its all crap an wreecks of personal opinion!

 

I'd probably "crack" it as well.

 

I'd interested in how the members of the Jag Car Club would feel about joining and racing a zed in their Marque...lol...I bet it would upset a lot of them...

 

A Marque Sports Car  Club is just that, a club composed of individuals owning similar cars, hopefully all having similar interests in Motor sports.

 

However at the end of the day is the club trying to emulate a club of like minded individuals, similar cars or a particular make?

 

 

I could only find the following reference to Sports Cars:

1.2 Eligibility: Cars must be derived from the Sports Car Recognition list approved by CAMS. To be considered for

addition to the Sports Car Recognition list, at least 10 vehicles must have been sold and registered for road

use in Australia with identical specification......http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/02_race/c.%202nd%20Category/RA17_Group_2B_Q111.pdf

 

Can't find the Sports Car Recognition list, I vaguely remember I had problems trying to find this document 10 years or so ago and it may have been the preserve of the Marque Sports Car Association, so they have approved these as a recognised car then so be it..

 

I'm just glad the 2+2 is recognised as a model follow on in The Rally regs.....that's all that is important to me....

 

 

[GongZ]

Well it seems that Mr Gordon Dobie has surfaced, and it is the real man!

 

He has replied to the 'Bathurst' thread;

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,5743.msg82511/topicseen.html#msg82511

 

I look forward to reading anything he posts here.

[dat2kman]

the current rules for Australian production Sports cars - Historics ie Group S are quite restrictive, ( very !)  when it comes to the so called mods allowed for our Zeds, however, if you have a Porsche, a MGB, a Alfa, a Austin healey, a MG Midget,  a Morgan, a DeTomaso or a Shelby Mustang, you are allowed certain freedoms in rim widths, tyre sizes, carurettors, ignition radiators, brakes etc, because, "apparently" it was able to be proven that these cars were "sold" by the dealerships somwhere in Upper Kumbucta West in Timbuctoo, with siad goodies fitted.

 

When it comes to the current Group S  Zed fraternity, and there have been a few, and yes we have tried, it is "No dice, you have to run as stock as the factory made them" even though the dealers sold a new car, and the buyer could then trot next door into the dealers spare parts section, and walk out with everything in the Competition parts catalogue, It sucks bigtime.

I am giving up racing my Group Sc 280Z, and turning it into a Standard Late Classsic tarmac rally car, at least there their is sensibility in brake freedoms, the rest of the car is to remain stock.

 

The other side of the coin, is this,

My other car is the very well known famour Mingay/Carter Datsun Sports 2000, it was then and is still now the fastes and highest horsepowered ( 245hp at 7500 and 186 ft/lb) Datsun U20 engined produstion Based Sports Car in Australai and the world, it has continous race history since May 14th 1968, and is today as it was back in the late 1960's. It was built with as much parts from the Comp Catalogues as the DRT cars were.

 

CAMS have said, that as the car is genuine, with history, it as a production based sports car, is to race in with the non historic production sports cars  - Group S -, - the kicker is prod BASED, mine has wider rims and four piston front brakes, that is all, compared to the Datsun Race Team 2000 sports and curren spec Group S elegible  Datsun Sports 2000's, of which there are three that run from time to time.

 

At VHRR Phillip Island Classic meeting 2010, they put me in with some 48 pre 1970 Prod Sports cars, Shelby Mustangs, Corvette Stingrays, Morgan V8's Healey 3000's,  MGB with non stock carbs and alloy panels etc, and Alfa's etc, What does muggins here do, He wins all four races, and promptly the oh so very pucka "Group British" are screaming blue bloody murder, at the fact that a genuine Historic sports car, has won all their  "Historic"races and taken their bits of tin and plastic and upset their cherished pointscores.

 

Go figure, none of the Group S so called cars are genuine historic with a true history, but oh no, thet protest, and the race for the 'Brroklands Victorian Tourist Trophy, event 42 on the card, won by me, is not awarded the perpetual prize, the trophy and the BLOODY WONDERFULL ROLLAWAY TOOL BOX AND CABINET WITH JACK BRABHAMS PICTURE ALL OVER IT !

 

I am a glutton for puishment, so i entered again for 2011, and what do the pucka VHRR do, they now stick me in with the later more modern post 1970 prod sports class,  ohwell now I have to contend with the 2.7/3.0 Porkers Detomasos, BMW3.0 CSL's, Alfa GTV's and yes the might Zed cars, all in a fairly stockish U20 engined little Datsun Sports 2000

[zedrally]

the current rules for Australian production Sports cars - Historics ie Group S are quite restrictive,

 

snip

 

I am giving up racing my Group Sc 280Z, and turning it into a Standard Late Classsic tarmac rally car, at least there their is sensibility in brake freedoms, the rest of the car is to remain stock.

 

 

Welcome to the darkside.....whether it's Tarmac or Forrest, the zed is always looked upon in awe in Rally Land.

[NZeder]

well dat2kman, that just smacks of anti Japaneses all over the place. I know here in NZ we had a big big fight back in the 80's when the Datsun Z Club started to get the 240z/260z recognised as a true classsic. That is now water under the bridge but we still have to deal with series organisers/co-ordinators who bring up the "Datsun 240z/260z are invited only to the group and if the grids get too large they can and will be dropped". These same people will let Mk1 Escort fitted with YB Cosworth engines fitted run as a period correct car WTF the YB is mid/late 80's engines. They claim the are very close to the Halbay head that was installed on the RS2000 (aka pinto bottom end) - just because they bolt these YB heads to a pinto bottom end. No standard pinto either but an all Alloy block WTF - how is that period correct.

 

So then if they can pass a YB Cossie as a Halbay (and some of these engines are 2.5l WTF) then I should be able to pass my RB powered car off as a Z432 as they are just as much related as a YB Alloy engine in to a Halbay.....but I bet I could never get that past any series organiser or race body but they can because it is British.

 

It would be nice to just have a period race car from Japan aka a S30 with all the fruit as raced in period with history to back that up. After all JAF are connected to the FIA and these cars ran under JAF rules in the day which were FIA approved. So these cars should and can get FIA HTP papers. Motorsport NZ and others are pushing for rules like your Group SC aka standard production cars or "the car" (not a replica, but the car that raced in period with all its period mods only =

"the car" would be like actual Colonel Capri RS3100 that was around back in the day). If this happens I think I will be saving for a period correct S30 from Japan with racing history from early 70's with proof to back that up.

[zedrally]

Hey NZeder,

I just read about the Silverfern Rally and the stink that followed from the "English" delegation with their Group 4 Escorts...

I particularly like the notion that cars can be modified beyond PRC level, I guess it just depends on how much modification is allowed..

I believe that there are more freedoms that PRC in Australia allow, can you elaborate?

 

Seems to be a common denominator here...Jap vs Pom/anything else..

 

(Sorry for hijacking the Gordon Dobie bit, but I guess it's a evolving thread...)

[Sirpent]

Guys this is great reading so dont apologise.

[dat2kman]

so two weeks ago I am in Japan visting Nismo and get an invite to the Zama storage wharehouse, and what do I see, and get info on but these tow, along with a genuine Z432.

First is a SCCN white Z fitted with a LY28

LY??? It is a L bottom end with a crossflow Y head fited, see pics.

The other thing is what grabbed my goolies, and on asking the head of nismo, he confirmed that Nissan supplied/sold to the Japanese Highway Patrol/Police Department some 30 of these police cars, fitted with ZG nose, flares wider rims and tyres, four piston brakes and the 432 engine 9 de-tuned)

These were sold to the Jap Popo to catch all the naughty boys on the Wangan's ( expressways) late at night.

They even supplied ,in 1966 the original Sylvia CSP311 model as a police car.

I am now getting direct confirmation from nissan as to what spec the police car was and will then attempt to hit CAMS Australia with this information.

Apparently the bloody poms, krauts and Yanks can get away with all sorts of mods to their so called 'stock" as produced by the car manufactures sports cars.

Please, tell me how in hell a Shelby GT350 Mustang is a "sports car" the white one in Aus group S in genuine, the green one is a 'parts" asembled car, and not genuine,'cept for the repro alloy ID tags fitted!!

Buch of bloody cheaters.

Wait till we get our Group S zeds fitted with flares, G noses, Sumitome four piston calpers, vented front brakes, rims up to 10 inches wide, twincam four valve head, triple carbs.

Wont he shizz well and truly hit the fan!

BTW I visited a workshop in outer Tokyo, and what is left just lying around on the floor, but original S30 twincam 4 valve heads GGGRRR

Anyway lets see if pics upload!

nup files too big?

Anyway we got like 700 photos in 16 days in Japan, some good stuff!

I'm a pic posting numpty!

[benny]

maybe upload your pics to picasa or flickr or something... dying to see them!!

[NZeder]

great post dat2kman. I still have my pair of MK63 aka Sumitomo 4 pots for the day I get another zed that I build as period correct

 

All this info is good and like you say the more we can find out the better (be it from guys like Gordon and what they did back in the day or Nissan with the kind of info you have started to find out).

 

It was well known that Japanese Police got Z432 and ZG but I did not know they were the Z432 with ZG overfenders and G-Nose installed so it would great to know more about these cars.

 

Recently my mates 240z was not allowed to racing in a 70's grid. The reason - the 240z never had a back seat so could not be a classed as saloon or GT (it was a 70's grid for saloons and GT's). WTF??? not a GT?? so he had to race in the "Sports, Sports Racing & GT class" with the likes of a TVR, Corvette, Lotus Elans, Mallocks.

 

If you check with the old British guys they will tell you a "sports car" is a 2 seater open top car. So they makes the 240z a GT and therefore I guess a Shelby GT350. But if a sports car is a "2 seater" then the 240z is such a car and the Shelby is not as they were always 2+2.

 

I guess until we start holding our own meetings will this one eyed-ness stop.