hi people

[Gold]

I joined as I'm a big fan of the Z cars.

I currently own a R31 RB30DE skyline and a 180SX SR20DET.

Live in Melbourne and I stuff around cars for a hobby.

I'm in the market for a 240Z, but I think I might have to settle for a 260Z.

Sub reason I joined is to ask the difference between a 240 and a 260.

 

So far I have gathered that:

* Different tailights

* Indicators on the 240z are on the rear quarter, on the 260z, they are on the back

* Front indicators are larger on the 240z.

* Dash is different to.

 

What I'm concerned about is that the rear side windows are different and the slant of rear back window is different, which gives the distinct look of the 240z from the side.

Is this true?

 

Apart from this, are is there anything else?

[gav240z]

Hi mate,

The 240z was only available in 2 seater.

 

The 260z was available as a 2 seater and 2+2 version (Fairlady 2by2 in Japan).

 

The major difference between the 240z and 260z 2 seaters is:

- Emission standards sapped power from the 260z L26 (Not L24) engine. The carbs are different.

- The tail light design changed

- The dashboard design changed due to ventilation criticism on early 240z's (although I prefer the design and look of a 240z style dash myself).

- Chassis design changed over the years (but 260z chassis is a little big heavier and stronger so more ideal for big engine swaps).

- Interior design patterns changed between 240z / 260z

 

The 260z is actually a much more refined vehicle and corrected many problems, criticisms that motoring mags mentioned about the early 240z. Although due to emission regulations they were slower than the 240z in standing 1/4 mile and 0-60 mph (100 km/h).

 

Having said that many owners have changed the 260z carbs for 240z Hitachi carbs to correct this issue.

 

This is just a basic summary, there are lots of other small design changes for each year and sometimes each month of vehicle.

 

It really comes back to what you want from the vehicle. If you want to modify it a 260z 2 seater is more suitable (although certain rules in different states mean that earlier cars are better for engineering *which is a shame).

 

You also pay a premium for a 240z because everyone wants 1.

[sexual_sushi]

Gavs got it covered the slant you talk about in the 1/4 window is only in the 260z 2+2 versions. The 2 seaters have the same body lines. In the 2+2's they made the car 12 inches longer and the roof line is to give the people in the back more headroom. I wish I had the panel beating expertise to smooth out the roof but it would be a major job. There was talk that they had done that in the new Wanan Mignight movie?

[George]

welcome aboard pilgrim

[C.A.R.]

Welcome.

 

We really need to amalgamate some of this information that gets given as answers to these sort of posts...

[Gold]

Thanks for the fast reply guys.

 

It really comes back to what you want from the vehicle. If you want to modify it a 260z 2 seater is more suitable (although certain rules in different states mean that earlier cars are better for engineering *which is a shame).

 

I'm not really worried about the interior, nor am I worried about the engine.

As I'm planning on putting the 3L DOHC in it.

If anything, I'm worried about compiling it with VicRoads.

Is that fairly easy?

 

I'm planing on making the car my daily, after the first few mods.

Such as newer engine, flared guards and wide offset rims, coilovesr all around (if they can be fitted) minor bolton bake upgrade, bucket seats, new dash and interior bits.

It probably will not see much track action. Maybe after I get to the turbo conversion, if I do...

 

How's this car feel when used as an everyday car?

As far as family practicality,

police attention on an modified Z,

and parts availability for servicing.

 

the slant you talk about in the 1/4 window is only in the 260z 2+2 versions. The 2 seaters have the same body lines. In the 2+2's they made the car 12 inches longer and the roof line is to give the people in the back more headroom.

 

I'm also thinking the 2-seater chassis looks better as I haven't seen many worked 2+2 260Z.

Any one got some link of nice 2+2 260Zs?

 

[620Z]

You can check out my Gallery on this site to see some mods made to a 2+2 if you like.

Good luck with the purchase.

[JP]

 

I'm not really worried about the interior, nor am I worried about the engine.

As I'm planning on putting the 3L DOHC in it.

If anything, I'm worried about compiling it with VicRoads.

Is that fairly easy?

 

 

You need a pre-emissions ADR '74 or earlier car.

I had an RB30DET in my '77 and it couldn't realistically be engineered unless running on straight gas. It's an expensive lesson.

[RBZ 260]

i use my 260z 2+2 as daily for last 2.5 years.

 

got a rb20det conversion, brake upgrade, lsd diff,power everything, and interior redone (well 80% of it) 

 

how does it feel? feels damn good for an old car. mine has few rattles and its bit noisy due to lack of interior. other than that u got to get used to people gawking at u at all times and screaming GO DATO. when parked get used to having people around it.

 

police wise never been pulled over and she is loud with big muffler at the back.just dont be stupid and u be ok. even got thumbs up from one police car. (also got a dagger from another one but I was stupid so i deserved that one)

 

as a daily i think 2+2 be better cars as u can use the extra space for various day to day chors and u can stick extra people at the back if needed. i occasionaly go out in the country and the storage space gets used to max. if was 2 seater i would need to make 2 trips or loose some of the comforts.

 

parts are probably bit easier and cheaper with 2+2 than the 2 seaters.

 

as for the anal rear 1/4 look on 2+2 i hate it too but i got few plans in the pipeline to fix that up.

 

check the galleries and also this

 

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,658.330.html

 

 

hey JP good to see you around whats the deal with ur car? rb25det in yet?

[JP]

hey JP good to see you around whats the deal with ur car? rb25det in yet?

 

Hey, the RB25DET has been in for almost a year now but unfortunately not running yet as the car is in storage while I am building a new house. Good news is I have built a nice double garage as a workshop with the Z's name on it, should be ready to move in next month.

 

What year did the 2+2's start in Australia? Pretty late on wasn't it?

[Gold]

You need a pre-emissions ADR '74 or earlier car.

I had an RB30DET in my '77 and it couldn't realistically be engineered unless running on straight gas. It's an expensive lesson.

 

Kind of shattered my dreams of a trubo...

As I can't find a pre 74 for under 15k, come to think of it, there isn't any under 25k in Vic.

Well do it still hold true for say a RB30DE (non turbo)?

 

how does it feel? feels damn good for an old car. mine has few rattles and its bit noisy due to lack of interior. other than that u got to get used to people gawking at u at all times and screaming GO DATO. when parked get used to having people around it.

 

Yes, that's what I'm asking, if the cars have common rattles or squeaks or low build quality. It's because frankly I'm tired of the rattles and squeaks in the R31 skyline, and that car is later then the Zs. So plan is to move the worked engine over and genuinely have a car with less old car habits.

 

as for the anal rear 1/4 look on 2+2 i hate it too but i got few plans in the pipeline to fix that up.

 

check the galleries and also this

 

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,658.330.html

 

Looks a lot of work mate. What's involved in modifying and what's the budget?

Don't know if it's worth it, although I don't like the rear 1/4 look...

 

[zedevan]

my understanding is the issue of a twincam 3 liter is the fact the engine has never been tested to pass ADR's - you can however put in a rb30et/rb26dett etc

 

stricter emissions also happened early 76 - although i can't remember what direct difference it makes - i think you can vent to atmosphere (BOV) before this date??

[Mr Camouflage]

The major difference between the 240z and 260z 2 seaters is:

- Emission standards sapped power from the 260z L26 (Not L24) engine.

 

Not true Gav, unless you live in the USA.

 

L24 was rated at 150HP (Gross)

L26 was rated at 162HP (Gross)

 

USA 260z was de-tuned to 140HP to meet emissions requirements, then they got hobbled again with the 5mph impact bumpers (sometimes called Nixon bumpers, since he was the President when the laws were drawn up), which added heavy impact absorbing bumpers and shock absorbers to the car, front and rear (if you've seen a picture of a 280Z you'll know what I mean). The idea was that the car should survive a 5mph impact with no damage. That pretty much killed the 260Z in the USA. Nissan upped the capacity to 2.8 (L28 170HP) to compensate for the extra weight, switched to EFI to meet emissions and rebadged it as the 280Z.

 

Here in Aus, emissions weren't an issue, and neither was surviving a 5mph collision undamaged.

 

 

 

[gav240z]

Not true Gav, unless you live in the USA.

 

L24 was rated at 150HP (Gross)

L26 was rated at 162HP (Gross)

 

USA 260z was de-tuned to 140HP to meet emissions requirements, then they got hobbled again with the 5mph impact bumpers (sometimes called Nixon bumpers, since he was the President when the laws were drawn up), which added heavy impact absorbing bumpers and shock absorbers to the car, front and rear (if you've seen a picture of a 280Z you'll know what I mean). The idea was that the car should survive a 5mph impact with no damage. That pretty much killed the 260Z in the USA. Nissan upped the capacity to 2.8 (L28 170HP) to compensate for the extra weight, switched to EFI to meet emissions and rebadged it as the 280Z.

 

Here in Aus, emissions weren't an issue, and neither was surviving a 5mph collision undamaged.

 

I know what you're saying, but Australian models were still fitted with different carbs (HMB46W) Hitachi SU's. As part of the assembly more emission related parts were fitted to the vehicle. Its also my understanding that the E88 cylinder head chamber changed to a lower compression design (to allow for unleaded fuel). They did fit this cylinder head with larger valves which helped along with stroking it.

 

According to Brian Long's book the L26 was rated at 162HP Gross SAE power. It was 139HP in California where even stricter emission regulations existed.

 

You are correct that the weight rose mainly due to the US 5mph bumpers. Apparently they were responsible for about 60kg of extra weight (on US models). However other markets did receive a weight increase due to the Aircon, Ventilation system and other minor changes.

 

The 74 260z chassis was very similar, if not the same as the 73 240z chassis (albeit a few minor details and chassis stamping). However at some point (at which I'm not 100% sure) Nissan changed the chassis on the S30 and beefed up some structural areas.

 

As for performance between the 240z and 260z in Australia. I'm actually not sure which car was quicker in stock form. My guess is the 240z was the quicker car as most markets complained about the L26 not being as good.

 

Motor magazine in Europe (accoding to Brian Long's book) claimed the European 260z was slower than the original 240z and fuel consumption suffered by as much as 25 percent.

 

I guess I was originally trying to keep the post simple to help the original poster, but as you can see it gets quite complex

[JP]

The 74 260z chassis was very similar, if not the same as the 73 240z chassis (albeit a few minor details and chassis stamping). However at some point (at which I'm not 100% sure) Nissan changed the chassis on the S30 and beefed up some structural areas.

 

I think it was mid-'75 which brings about the biggest compromise for me, stiffer body for more power or earlier emissions compliance rules. I wish I chose the earlier emissions in hindsight.

 

Kind of shattered my dreams of a trubo...

As I can't find a pre 74 for under 15k, come to think of it, there isn't any under 25k in Vic.

Well do it still hold true for say a RB30DE (non turbo)?

 

As mentioned it is about emissions, not power.

Post '74 you need to run all emissions equipment including original EFI ECU unless you prepared to spend 5 figures certifying another ECU. The RB30DE never had one as it isnt a production motor.

The next logical step was an RB26DETT however I was told that it is difficult to get the original ECU to run the motor in a conversion without all the other chassis systems (awd etc). Similar the RB25DET Neo with its drive by wire etc etc.

 

This is why I ended up with a stock S2 RB25DET.

I'm not saying the RB26DETT or Neo isnt possible, however in the brief research I did they seemed impractical to run in a conversion using the OEM ECU.

[RBZ 260]

the ecu issue for rb26dett can be easily fixed with a ecu remap or to be more crude giving the ecu inputs that it requires so it thinks the rest of the system is up and operational. altessa system can be disabled easily.

 

Gold as for rattles. well my window sliders are loose as i didnt have time to adjust them properly. the lock pins are rattlign as well as there are no door trims to keep them in center and away from the metal. also my door handle as the cover is missing due to lack of door trims it rattles. once all complete it should be all nice and quiet. they are easily identified and can be easily fixed.

 

1/4 window if u paying someone to do the job be exy exercise by the time u get all the parts needed. i got the parts allready and tools for the job just need to find the time to do it.

 

2+2 can be made to look good. just look at Revrendz' car and Jays.

 

to non z people they can't tell the difference between the 2 seaters or 2+2.

 

i like the 2+2 as its more proportional and lot more practical for daily car. but that 1/4 windows is making the car look bit funny.

 

ive seen on hybridz that some people just inverted the 1/4 glass. that looks better but not as good if a blend of 260 and 240 glass.

 

 

[Gold]

Yeah thanks guys,

seam like a lot of people are keeping the Z engines.

I was really opting for the skyline engine as I already have a worked one.

 

2+2 can be made to look good. just look at Revrendz' car and Jays.

do you mean this revrend http://www.revszed.synthasite.com/ ? because I can't find any decent (big) pictures

[Mr Camouflage]

As for performance between the 240z and 260z in Australia. I'm actually not sure which car was quicker in stock form. My guess is the 240z was the quicker car as most markets complained about the L26 not being as good.

 

Motor magazine in Europe (accoding to Brian Long's book) claimed the European 260z was slower than the original 240z and fuel consumption suffered by as much as 25 percent.

 

I guess I was originally trying to keep the post simple to help the original poster, but as you can see it gets quite complex

 

Its easy if you forget about the other countries and deal only with Aussie spec Zeds.

 

260Z (2 seater) is quicker and more powerful than the the 240z. 

 

Aussie 260Z was 162 HP and hit 60mph over a second quicker than the 240Z even with its flat top carbies and extra 165 lbs weight disadvantage.

 

 

[gav240z]

Its easy if you forget about the other countries and deal only with Aussie spec Zeds.

 

260Z (2 seater) is quicker and more powerful than the the 240z. 

 

Aussie 260Z was 162 HP and hit 60mph over a second quicker than the 240Z even with its flat top carbies and extra 165 lbs weight disadvantage.

 

Fair enough, I stand corrected then. I guess the problem with the information on the internets at the moment is that its heavily biased toward the US market. So it can be hard to tell what was going on in each country. Unfortunately while Brian Long's book is well detailed their is only very brief mentions of the Australian market.

 

Certainly there is a bias even in his book toward talking about the US market and what was going on there. Although due to sales in that region its hard to ignore.

 

@Gold - I think a lot of people stick with the L28 because it is a very flexible motor and can be made to perform very well with the right mods. The expense of engine conversion ads up very quickly so it depends on what you want to achieve from the car.

[RBZ 260]

yep that one but here are the better pics also its for sale now at very very good price.

 

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,5466.0.html

 

also check this one out too

 

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,2708.0.html

 

and mine can be seen here or the build through my gallery

 

http://www.viczcar.com/Featured-Rides/Johnny-Kostic-s-Datsun-260z-2+2.html