Neuby's red rota'd 240Z

[Aaron Neubauer]

Which S30 is the RB25DET going in Scott?  He has a few projects to choose from lol.

 

I'll keep in mind that he has a few P90 heads as that is still an option.

[Aaron Neubauer]

Thought I would post an update.

 

Been busy lately.  The engine is in its last stages of completion, just waiting on the crank guy to return the important bits!  I'm tired so I'm going to post pictures instead of typing an essay, and besides, everyone loves a picture show right? 

 

New members to the family, triple 45DCOE152s on a cannon manifold, freshly 'delivered' today 

 

I know they're Spanish but they were new and awesomely priced!

 

MSD soft cut rev limiter

 

Innovate LM-2 wideband oxygen sensor and datalogger, I got sick of hiring a dyno...

 

A crappy photo of the BR20DET gearbox to L series bellhousing, very easy conversion

 

Ross MJ harmonic balancer

 

 

 

 

[RB30X]

Oooo, flashing some shiny parts there mate, looks great.

Can't wait to see this tuning on the run.

[datsfreak]

some very cool stuff there!!

To help tune those webers check out:

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php?/topic/28318-weber-jetsall-who-live-for-their-triples-please-read-this/

There is 18 pages of setups with jets/tubes etc- I started that topic way back in 2004 when I had my 45's on a prev 240z--

*sigh* I miss 240s

[Toecutter]

What did the data logger set back?

 

Sulio

[Aaron Neubauer]

I think the datalogger cost $375 AUD, the exhange rate wasn't as good as it is now.  I'm dirty as I found a wiring diagram for an S15 for the basic logging channels on the standard ECU harness the weekend before Gatton street sprints.  If I had have found it earlier I could have taken if for a test run then as the 240Z wasn't ready.

 

Thanks for the link Scott.  I think the base tune settings are pretty close to whats needed after dicussions with Jim for Express Engineering, his father (rallied 1600 in the 70s) and Dallas from DJ automotive but I guess we will find out when its all back together!

 

I'm still waiting on my crank back from the crank shop, my money is on that they've buggered it and trying to fix it.  They've had it since January and they said one week turn around...

[Aaron Neubauer]

FINALLY got my crank and associated bits back!  Knife edged, balanced and nitrided.  They managed to cut 3kg out of it.  It originally weighed 22kg.  13.6% weight reduction is terrific in my books!.  Just need my oversized lash caps and its ready for a dummy assemble!

 

[datsfreak]

looks sweet neuby

[datsfreak]

I saw the old girl driving past the other day.. Any progress? If you get sick of it you can always swap me,it for a r33.. (only joking - not really - kinda serious)

[Aaron Neubauer]

The stroker motor is back in, only have about 80 more mile to do then its another oil change, thighten the head and give it some real curry.  Had a few issues with getting to run and still have a few things to tidy up.  I gave up waiting for some new idle jets so I am having an old set of 50F9 drilled out to 60F9 and that should cure a lot of issues.  I still have to install a Stewart Wilkins balancer as I am still running the original item.  The L28 ignition died, the magnet under the stator broke which create lots of poles and a weak signal that the module couldn't read so I ended up getting a new Pertronix module for less than $100AUD landed from the US, best investment ever.

 

I should probably write up something a bit more detailed on of these days.....but a quick vid will have to suffice for now....

 

[datsfreak]

thats awesome! more -(longer) youtube vids please.

if you havnt tried already, Styler automotive(bridge st - near the bridge) used to have lots of  spare weber jets- I got a whole set off him for my old weber fed 240

[Aaron Neubauer]

I haven't seen Milton is a long time come to think of it!  Last I heard he was really trully giving 'it' up.  Haha I bet you he won't.  I will have to swing by and visit him.

 

How is your brother's RB conversion going?

[datsfreak]

He has done a fresh paint job on the 260z 2 seater - Ive only seen  photos but it looks really good. He has removed the rb20det for the paint and  has  a rb25det in it now. Its still not finished but will be a hot car when done. Plus he still has various other zed projects on the go.

BTW started a webpage for him -

WWW.ZBITZ.COM.AU

Its only a start(a lil rough) but features a sexy car - I think you will agree.

Since having the r33 for over a year, I have come to like the rb25det - if/when  I do another zed I will use one or a rb30/25/26det - anyone know whats the rules with that are ?

  But saying that,  triple 45's with trumpets w/ big cam on a L done sound incredible.

 

[Aaron Neubauer]

[Riceburner]

Awesome mate, love the induction sound as you get back into it! Saw the previous vid to (test fit crank).... "fits like a glove" LOL! 

[Aaron Neubauer]

Its been a while since I've had the opportunity to play with the Zed.  Time seems to fly by when your older and have distractions. 

 

I finished my registered engineer status for QLD and my national charted status a few years back.  I suppose this has kept me (too) busy with work . If someone wants some structural/civil engineering let me know (shameless work plug haha).

 

My weakness for the insane sound of the Group B Audi Quattro got the better of me and bought an Audi RS3 last year.  My god they are a beast!  The 5 cylinder sound when giving it some stick is an eargasm!  Backfiring on downshift also makes anyone who has an iota of car appreciation giggle!  lucky it has ISOFIX seats 'cause my wife and I are expecting our little boy around April. I will try an upload the 'casual' backfiring video I took when the novelty value was high......

 

Anyway, back to the zed baby.  It hasn't rolled under its own power on tarmac since April 2012 which is almost abuse right?  I have started it occasionally and installed an MSD 6A ignition.  That seemed to make starting and idle more stable.  I also found out I munted my cam selection.  I don't know what i was thinking when I ordered it but I have a 292@0.003", 225@0.05" and an overlap of 76 degrees which explains why it runs out of puff and hits the hard imaginary ceiling at bout 7k rpm.  I totally thought I bought something more at the 'racer brown' end of the cam shaft scale to match the knife edged bottom end .

 

After this discovery I think my webers may be incorrect for the setup.  The main curcuit gives around AFR 11.5:1 at WOT so I'm not worried about that.  My concern is off idle performance.  it has a bad habit of stuttering and hesitating around town (from memory....).  I think the two things I need to change are the choke size and accelerator circuit.

 

The acceleration pump jet is 45 which seems right but the discharge valve is 00 so there isn't any bleed.  I'm thinking the the discharge valve needs to be 50 minimum.  I'm not sure what size chokes but I have a feeling I asked for "the biggest you can get" which probably means they are 40mm chokes.  I'm thinking 36mm would be enough for a 3.0l stroker with a rev shift point of 6.5krpm and a 7krpm cut?

 

Does anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Aaron Neubauer]

Sooo, I can safely put my experiences with the DCOE152 in the negative basket.

 

Nothing we did could make the 1500-3000 horrendous stumble and lean condition disappear.  The cam isn't anything crazy (actually a "73" cam) and engine shouldn't stall or backfill with only mediocre levels of throttle increase.

 

The harmonic balancer is a SWM item which has 10 degree marks the entire circumference with no reference to TDC.  Three times we confirmed TDC with a variety of tools to measure various parts of the engine make sure the timing was right.  I pulled the dizzy apart and tried a variety of weights and springs to make sure it was advancing correctly.  Several ranges of plug were tried and BP7s were settled on.  So timing was strong, correct and advancing properly.

 

After playing with the webers the hole could not be bridged without compromising some other part of the rev range.  Linkage operation and fuel pressure was triple checked.  One surprising outcome was that the engine could idle at 450-500rpm and start super easy as long as it hadn't been sitting days drying fuel out of the intake manifold.

 

We concluded that it is the 3 hole progression circuit causing the problems.

 

The next step is to try some other carbs.  I have pairs of 40phh Type Ts and 44phh-2 Type Q Mikunis sitting on my bench for my 18RG engine destined for my ol' Corona.  Type Ts are easier to come across so they are the likely candidate with a Ø34mm choke.  Too small I know but a good compromise, I want the red beast to be my daily.  If I find another Type Q, banzinga, but I feel my chances are slim.

 

Chances are I will sell the DCOE152 if the mikunis work.  They are a well made carb, just haven't worked for me on the stroker motor.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Neuby

[Riceburner]

Hi Neuby,

 

Theres a Hybridz thread on webers with some fairly detailed jetting setups and a lot of discussion about the stumble you describe.

You've probably already found it though http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/28318-weber-jetsall-who-live-for-their-triples-please-read-this/

[Aaron Neubauer]

After lots of umming and arring I decided to switch to EFI.  Something I thought I'd never do!

 

Matty was extremely helpful in "alleviating" the webers from my care and helping me source an EFI manifold from Trypich. 

 

Thanks to Jason who through my constant harassment is providing tutelage through the whole process.

 

The short term plan to 'choke' the engine is as follows:

 

• P72 EFI manifold, cut open, mildly cleaned up and match ported
• RB20 or SR20 throttle body
• Megasquirt 1 on a V3.0 board with a few mods running Extra code (which turned up today)
• modified dizzy to squeeze in an RB30 CAS and run a 12-1 trigger disc.  I'm currently CADing up a baseplate to fix the CAS into the dizzy.
• AU II Falcon ignition in wasted spark
• surge tank recycling my Holley Red pump (overkill ) as a lift and a Bosch 044 or equivalent for high pressure

I'm currently going through all the hose end injectors I have to find a suitable functioning set with enough capacity for this motor.  I had a full set of RB20DET ones but when dropped off for a clean did not fire, much sadness .  I have this feeling it'll be a pain to swap to EFI but worth it in the long run.

[Riceburner]

Sounds interesting Aaron, particularly the modified dizzy. Will that be used instead of a crank trigger?

[Aaron Neubauer]

Hi Gareth,

 

The intention at this stage is to use the RB CAS with a 24-2 trigger disc to mimic a 12-1 crank trigger.  I'm finding there is a bit of buggerising around mainly in getting the disc to sit 'properly' on the dizzy shaft in relation to the CAS.  I'm trying to recycle the 'D' shaft from the R31 dizzy and sleeve it over a cut down L series dizzy shaft just for neatness.  I think if I can get it to work it's only fair if I try and document it for all to use.

[jeff43]

Hi All, just for info this is what I will be running 

 

Hi Gareth,

 

The intention at this stage is to use the RB CAS with a 24-2 trigger disc to mimic a 12-1 crank trigger.  I'm finding there is a bit of buggerising around mainly in getting the disc to sit 'properly' on the dizzy shaft in relation to the CAS.  I'm trying to recycle the 'D' shaft from the R31 dizzy and sleeve it over a cut down L series dizzy shaft just for neatness.  I think if I can get it to work it's only fair if I try and document it for all to use.

 

Hi All,

 

Just for info this is the setup I will be running on my car (L28ET) and is being run on "vorn70's" car with a haltech sprint 500 running ITB's. Jason a member here set it up initially by modifying a 280zx distributor to take the rb30 CAS. It was discussed here http://www.viczcar.com/forum/topic/12249-what-trigger-to-use-for-aftermarket-ecu/ there are some pics in this thread.

 

Cheers Jeff (J2).

[Aaron Neubauer]

Thanks for that Jeff.  There must be variances in dizzies, the spindles that hold the trigger disc in the ones I have look very different (narrower) from the ones in the photo.  It would be easy if they were the same and could sleeve that easily over the dizzy shaft!

 

I have decided to make the CAS fitment a long term project and use the pertronix as a trigger and retain the MSD setup just to get the car running.  The MSD supported the motor up up to 7.5k rpm previously and I just want to get the car running  .

[Aaron Neubauer]

Got a bit of an update.  

 

My original plans have been cut short by a career opportunity with my company to head up a new team trading out of our Bundaberg office.   look out any up Bundy way!  I will have to learn to like the rum though, personally I think its poison haha.

 

My solution in lieu of insufficient time to finish the conversion to EFI before the shift was rebuild and use the 240z round top SUs.  I ran a Ztherapy kit with SM needles through them and fitted them today.  I used the old E46 manifold after match porting and running an 80 grit flap disc to get rid of some the horrible casting marks.

 

Also fitted is a Zstory race-sport header and JDM style muffler.  I recycled the old hotdog pipe from my old system.  The headers are a close reproduction of the old Nissan Motorsport headers that are NLA.  I'm very impressed with the precision and quality of work.  The engine sounds mighty nice now!

 

I got the car running today.  In comparison to the 45s, the twin SUs are not that bad in terms of throttle response and air flow.  Granted my stroker isn't wild like a cut snake.  I was surprised.  Throttle response was similar and that flat spot was completely gone!  AFR at idle and cruising sat around the 14.5 mark and WOT was around 11.5-12.5.

 

I have finished the megasquirt but will most likely be reduced to ignition only and accessory control like rad fans and maybe a gawdy ricer shift light.

 

I hope to line up a few dyno runs when the weather cools off a bit.  I'm hoping for a positive result to support the use of SUs on a stroker motor.  My butt dyno is telling me the round tops aren't far behind the 45s I had!

 

[Aaron Neubauer]

Not much of a video.  It's all I got for now.

 

https://youtu.be/YVLYNyb3aSw