Race Car Pics, Yours Or ?

[260DET]

To start the ball rolling, one of my faverit  S30 race cars, this one from the Bob Sharp stable. The front looks good although I'm not sure about the aero but what makes it a standout are the guard bulges to accomodate those delicious wheels. It was up for auction recently, hmmmm........

 

 

 

[260DET]

Looks even better from the rear? Some back ground, those rear wheels are 15" wide, that wide at the request of Porsche who were getting beaten by the Dartsun but it did them no good because they got beaten still. This was for the 1976? US GTU championship and for me demonstrates just how good the Z basics are compared with a much more expensive car that supposedly was the ultimate in performance car engineering.

Edited March 10, 2018 by 260DET

[HS30-H]

Looks even better from the rear? Some back ground, those rear wheels are 15" wide, that wide at the request of Porsche who were getting beaten by the Dartsun but it did them no good because they got beaten still. This was for the 1976? US GTU championship and for me demonstrates just how good the Z basics are compared with a much more expensive car that supposedly was the ultimate in performance car engineering.

 

In 1976? In 1976 Sharp was racing in the GTU class against Porsche 914/6s and various privateers in fairly obsolete models. Meanwhile Porsche were totally dominating the races overall and winning the GTO class, which was their main focus.

 

Z basics? The Bob Sharp car doesn't look to me like anything you could walk into a Nissan showroom and buy. Meanwhile, you could turn up at a Porsche showroom and drive home in a 3.0 RSR.

 

I'm a diehard Nissan and Z fan, but let's not kid ourselves here. Porsche won the International Championship for Makes in 1969, '70, '71, '76, '77, '78 and '79 and the International Cup for GT Cars in 1968, '69, '70, '71, '72, '73, '74 and '75 and the new World Championship for Sports Cars in 1976, '78 and '79. And for good reason.

[260DET]

The Z car did very well in the 70's classes it was suitable for which in IMSA was the under 2.5 litre GTU class with the 240Z, the GTO class in which the Porsches did well was for over 2.5's. In the SCCA competition in C Production the Z was championship winner from 1970 to 1979, an exceptional result by any standard. So to sum up in a general way we can say that in '70's USA the Zed has a far more impressive racing history than the P car and beat it regularly where the playing field was around even. Unfortunately there was no 'Nismo Zed' back then so Porsche had a free go when they brought out their hot rod versions.

 

And most important of all that Sharp Z has to be one of the sexiest race cars ever 

[HS30-H]

In the SCCA competition in C Production the Z was championship winner from 1970 to 1979, an exceptional result by any standard. So to sum up in a general way we can say that in '70's USA the Zed has a far more impressive racing history than the P car and beat it regularly where the playing field was around even.

 

What were the Zs racing against in the SCCA C Production class though? Take a peep and remind yourself.

 

"....in '70's USA the Zed has a far more impressive racing history than the P car and beat it regularly where the playing field was around even."

 

LOL. Only if you wear blinkers. Again, I'm a die-hard Nissan and Z fan but stuff like this looks nuts from where I'm sitting. Porsche were busy winning proper international series and the big 'classic' races - which included those at Sebring, USA and Daytona USA. Zed more impressive racing history? Nope.

 

That playing field you mentioned included the new car showroom on the high street. Love it as I do, Nissan's S30-series basically had no answer for what was on sale in the Porsche showroom up the road. 

[260DET]

Beat the Porsche drum by all means Alan but proper comparisons involve like against like and that includes purpose and price. Porsche have always been careful to select where they will compete, They could have challenged Datsun in C Prod but chose not to, in fact they were careful not to challenge Datsun anywhere the Z car was doing well which basically involved those classes where the basic excellence of the mass production product posed a significant challenge to any similar car.

 

As for those Championships you mentioned that Porsche won they were for sports race cars that had little to do with any standard production car, a different class altogether and irrelevant as far as the Datsun Z goes. Porsche were and still are a specialist sports car maker which are able to sell their cars at a premium price, that a mass producer of all sorts of vehicles like Datsun was able to produce such a competent by any measure sports car is surely a bigger accomplishment than anything P did.

[Riceburner]

This is off to a good start   lol

 

Merge thread with any of 'jalexquijanos' 

 

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/topic/16962-sudden-loss-of-psi-on-airtex-e8012-sx-pump/page-2

[260DET]

This is off to a good start   lol

 

Merge thread with any of 'jalexquijanos' 

 

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/topic/16962-sudden-loss-of-psi-on-airtex-e8012-sx-pump/page-2

 

This discussion is for the grown ups, of course you could always contribute and post a pic of your favourite Z racer.

[Riceburner]

It was but a joke grandpa, perhaps a thread clean up then. Stop yelling at the wind about Porsche vs Datsun and post some more cool racing pics.

 

The topic is a good idea!

[Riceburner]

My contribution to thread restoration, love this one!

[HS30-H]

Beat the Porsche drum by all means Alan but proper comparisons involve like against like and that includes purpose and price. Porsche have always been careful to select where they will compete, They could have challenged Datsun in C Prod but chose not to, in fact they were careful not to challenge Datsun anywhere the Z car was doing well which basically involved those classes where the basic excellence of the mass production product posed a significant challenge to any similar car.

 

Beat the Porsche drum? I'm simply trying to bring a bit of levity and common sense to the table. I'm a car fan and, perhaps just as importantly, a motorsports fan and I try not to let marque loyalty get in the way of an evenly balanced view of motorsport history. 

 

Your "Porsche have always been careful to select where they will complete" makes me smile. Porsche competed just about everywhere, and in just about any class that their products were eligible for. It was Nissan (Datsun was just a badge) who were - by necessity - far more careful about what they entered, and where. It's in the very nature of the two companies, and the differences in product range, philosophy, location and - important this - world economics. Racing was in Porsche's blood, an integral and vital part of their being and directly related to the majority of their products. Nissan, not so. 

 

SCCA C Production in the early to mid Seventies? Sorry but this is almost the definition of pipsqueak. Great, but local, not direct factory efforts and subject to a great numbers of vagaries. It's laughable to hype it up as 'Porsche vs Nissan', with Nissan winning. Same goes for IMSA's GTU class. Painting Bob Sharp's successes in GTU as some kind of victory over the might of the Porsche factory, whilst Porsche were mopping up the GTO class one rung above him, is verging on delusion.  

[HS30-H]

As for those Championships you mentioned that Porsche won they were for sports race cars that had little to do with any standard production car, a different class altogether and irrelevant as far as the Datsun Z goes. Porsche were and still are a specialist sports car maker which are able to sell their cars at a premium price, that a mass producer of all sorts of vehicles like Datsun was able to produce such a competent by any measure sports car is surely a bigger accomplishment than anything P did.

 

The International Cup for GT Cars - which, as I mentioned above, Porsche won in 1968, '69, '70, '71, '72, '73, '74 and '75 - was a world series expressly for homologated versions of production cars. The fact that Porsche dominated that series whilst also dominating The World Championship of Makes really ought to tell you something about their racing focus and their products. It seems you are looking down the wrong end of a telescope at SCCA C Production and IMSA GTU and telling me that they are 'more important'?

 

I think you might not have the full deck of cards in your Top Trumps pack... 

[HS30-H]

Some back ground, those rear wheels are 15" wide, that wide at the request of Porsche who were getting beaten by the Dartsun but it did them no good because they got beaten still.

 

Posting photos of cars is easy. Discussing the technical details of the cars in the photos requires perhaps a little more commitment. If you can, will you please explain the sentence quoted above? 

[260DET]

We are all the product of our own experience and observations Alan and yours is apparently quite different to mine. To put a heap of experiences and observations into one sentence, 70's euro sports cars are second rate and Porsche's only beat S30's when their specs are higher, there is nothing intrinsically superior about a Porsche car. While Porsche have the advantage of an unbroken line of development Japanese mass producers can come up with a sports car to rival anything seemingly any time they want eg Toyota Supra.

 

As for the SCCA and similar, dismissing a popular US wide competition as of minor importance is just a little bit euro centric. 

[260DET]

It was but a joke grandpa, perhaps a thread clean up then. Stop yelling at the wind about Porsche vs Datsun and post some more cool racing pics.

 

The topic is a good idea!

 

Why stop 'yelling in the wind'? The topic and discussion is Z car relevant, if it's of no interest then stay away. Just like I do when the discussion is about a petrol cap or something similar.

[260DET]

Posting photos of cars is easy. Discussing the technical details of the cars in the photos requires perhaps a little more commitment. If you can, will you please explain the sentence quoted above? 

 

Gnosez's comment at the top of the page, note he mention's 'Porsche teams' so we have a direct contest with the Z car beating Porsche consistently and all it took was some Porsche style wide wheels. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/30935-lets-show-vintage-racing-pictures-ill-start/?page=50

[TOO60Z]

Why is this coming from a guy that needs a V8 and an auto in his track car?

[HS30-H]

Gnosez's comment at the top of the page, note he mention's 'Porsche teams' so we have a direct contest with the Z car beating Porsche consistently and all it took was some Porsche style wide wheels. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/30935-lets-show-vintage-racing-pictures-ill-start/?page=50

 

I'm sorry but privateers who are using Porsche products are no more 'Porsche' than Bob Sharp was 'Nissan', and I'm not sure that there's any real in-depth understanding of homologation and series regulations there either. Rhetorical question: If Sharp needed 15" wheels then why didn't he just source them and bolt them on? Why was it up to Porsche to - as you write - "request" them...?

 

And if I lay some manners on an unsuspecting Porsche driver at the traffic light grand prix on the way to work in the morning, have I "beaten Porsche"?

[d3c0y]

This is off to a good start   lol

 

Merge thread with any of 'jalexquijanos' 

 

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/topic/16962-sudden-loss-of-psi-on-airtex-e8012-sx-pump/page-2

 

Hey Gareth there is a lot of good technical info in that thread. Gav you should make it a sticky! And are our threads as rusty as our cars that they need restoration? haha

Edited March 12, 2018 by d3c0y

[TOO60Z]

I missed out on the Panamanian Z Car Nationals because nobody would help me with my fuel system. Great bunch of guys.

[260DET]

It's a bit strange that people on this forum who are supposed Z enthusiasts are not interested in their racing history, particularly when it involved reasonably level playing field competition with other well known and respected makes. That's OK but I do find it a bit hard to understand, then again the technical stuff concerning performance is what floats my amphibian. 

 

I'm sorry but privateers who are using Porsche products are no more 'Porsche' than Bob Sharp was 'Nissan', and I'm not sure that there's any real in-depth understanding of homologation and series regulations there either. Rhetorical question: If Sharp needed 15" wheels then why didn't he just source them and bolt them on? Why was it up to Porsche to - as you write - "request" them...?

 

And if I lay some manners on an unsuspecting Porsche driver at the traffic light grand prix on the way to work in the morning, have I "beaten Porsche"?

 

But this is the thing, no factory involvement advantage helps level the playing field and gives a good indication of what a car is really capable of. Time and time again over many years. Sharp didn't 'need' 15" wheels, Porsche were getting beaten and so successfully lobbied for the wider wheels which did them no good, they still got beaten.

 

The International Cup for GT Cars - which, as I mentioned above, Porsche won in 1968, '69, '70, '71, '72, '73, '74 and '75 - was a world series expressly for homologated versions of production cars. The fact that Porsche dominated that series whilst also dominating The World Championship of Makes really ought to tell you something about their racing focus and their products. It seems you are looking down the wrong end of a telescope at SCCA C Production and IMSA GTU and telling me that they are 'more important'?

 

I think you might not have the full deck of cards in your Top Trumps pack... 

 

My quick look at those competitions showed that the P cars involved were sports racers, what models Porsche are you talking about? Given that Porsche were mainly competing against euro cars the opposition was weak anyway, P as usual did their series shopping thing and obviously saw an opportunity. Jason used to do the same thing lol.

[HS30-H]

It's a bit strange that people on this forum who are supposed Z enthusiasts are not interested in their racing history, particularly when it involved reasonably level playing field competition with other well known and respected makes. That's OK but I do find it a bit hard to understand, then again the technical stuff concerning performance is what floats my amphibian.

 

I have a hunch - and yes, it would be difficult to prove unless we both took turns to sit in the Mastermind chair - that I know more, much more, about the Z's racing and rallying history, and Nissan's racing and rallying history, than you. Sorry to be so gauche, but there it is.

 

I probably would not have been motivated to get involved in your thread but for the utter nonsense you wrote about Porsche. You're probably a lost cause, but it pains me to think of anyone else swallowing that garbage without having a little bit of a different point of view (let's call it 'reality'...) to think about too.

[HS30-H]

My quick look at those competitions showed that the P cars involved were sports racers, what models Porsche are you talking about? Given that Porsche were mainly competing against euro cars the opposition was weak anyway, P as usual did their series shopping thing and obviously saw an opportunity. Jason used to do the same thing lol.

 

It was called The International Cup for GT Cars (that's 'International' in the global sense, not in the American sense...) and it was part of the FIA World Sports Car Championship. The cars were not prototypes (that was the World Championship of Makes) but - as I made clear up-thread - PRODUCTION based cars. The winning cars for Porsche during the '68 through '76 period were the 911R, 911S, 911RS and 911RSR - pretty much in that order too. So production based, homologated cars, a road-going version of which you could buy in a Porsche showroom. They would also sell you all the bits to go racing with it. I'm sorry but Nissan simply were not on the same page.

 

History. It's just one damned thing after another...

[Rickers]

[GregTas]

Big Sam for me. There was a good write up about it in Classic Car and Thoroughbreds mag about 20 or so years back.