Standard Wheel Width

[wally57]

Does anyone have any verifiable evidence of any z up to a 280zx including 2+2's that came standard with wheels wider than 5.5".

 

Wally

[PZG302]

Yes, but for what purpose???

 

The racing homologation paperwork shows wheels up to 10" wide.

[gilltech]

By that do you mean including a 280ZX?

AFAIK, excluding the '260Z style' alloy wheels which the early 280ZXs also used, the later style alloy wheels like the 'iron cross' design and the others fitted to later 280ZXs were 6".

Dat2kman will know about this, last time I was at his place he showed me a set of 6" 280ZX wheels, said they were useful for the Fairlady 2000s etc. You there Jason?

[wally57]

Guys,

I am going through engineering for the installation of an LS1 into my 260z 2+2.  The engineer has advised that under the current legislation etc in NSW after doing all the maths  I can only go 1" over the widest rim that was fitted by Datsun to a 260Z 2+2. I have fitted 7" rims to the car but the Engineer says that because the standard wheels were only 5.5" wide I can only have 6.5" wide rims. The issue as far as he is concerned is if the wheel bearings can take the load of a larger rim. If I can prove that a wider rim was approved by Datsun anywhere then that will provide evidence that the bearings are ok and he can get the rims approved. . When I posted the thread I did say 280zx but since then have discovered the bearings in the 280zx are different to other models up to 280z so using a 280zx as an example won't actually be any good.

If I can find actual documentary evidence of the 8" & 10" rims being available for the Fairlady through Datsun it will solve the entire problem.

 

Wally

[Linton]

may not help but the scarab had 6.5" wheels

I think that's how I read it.

Linton

Edited October 5, 2016 by Linton

[Impatient1]

Now I understand why Pb used the stock rims for his rego, rego friendly was the term.

[PZG302]

The homologation papers more than likely won't help as they are for racing only and not what Datsun specified as the wheels supplied with the car and certainly not for road use.

 

But the 240 and through to 280Z were homologated to race with 8" wide fronts and 10" wide rears IIRC. Standard wheels in the papers were 5.5" off the top of my head.

 

I have a paper copy of the docs but it is 5000km or so in Brisbane and I am in Indonesia for a couple of months.

[dat2kman]

The registered for road use Nissan 24 and 260 Z rally cars ( note, not for circuit racing!) ran the akobe Seiko 14"x7" rims, as supplied, and fitted, by Nissan Japan.

A number f these cars did end up being registered for se in Australa, and they had these same Kobe Seiko rims, at 7"

 

This is where the historical Z brigade chime in!

 

Simple fact is, they were road registered, they had to comply with whatever transport authourity rules, at the time were.

These were cars built from 1970 to 1975

 

The USA Nissan 280Z ( not the ZX !) in the end of its production life, may have had 6" rims fitted.

The "Black Pearl" version?

 

Anyway, you need one of the "historians" here, Al Thomas, Gav Doolan, Carl Beck, to give you some sort of "vehicle spec sheet" that shows that these 7" rims, were fitted and supplied, on brand new, ready for road registration 240 & 260 Z's

 

.

[PeterH]

Hi Wally...this does't address your request for documentation but it might help . 

 

In 1973 ADR 24 was introduced which relates to a tyre placard being fitted to all new cars. In the attached  link  VS9 .... the standards are explained. You can go one inch wider without worrying about any thing .... then depending on the vehicle weight and the wheel width stated on the tyre placard ( if it's still fitted ) you can go beyond that with an engineers certification. I don't know that it's wheel bearing size as much as legislation. 

According to this document, a 240Z built in 1972 can have seven inch wheels fitted but a 1973 car , with the same wheel bearings can only go to six and a half inches. Now that makes sense!!!!

I spoke to the RTA technical people about it  a few years ago and I was told that they are only guidelines.....maybe the guidelines have become law since then. Perhaps you should ring the RMS technical people and ask them the question. If all that is correct, seven inch wide for your car is within these guidelines.

 

Pete

 

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/safety-rules/standards/vsi-09-rev4.pdf

Edited October 5, 2016 by PeterH

[PeterAllen]

Now I understand why Pb used the stock rims for his rego, rego friendly was the term.

 

Wally, that's exactly what I'm proposing to do. Both you and the engineer will know what's going on but say nothing except perhaps, " I'll probably get some different wheels when I have some money".

 

Even something like this fitted with your own tyres which you later transfer to your present wheels?

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/prestons/wheels-tyres-rims/four-15-x-5-5-steel-rims-with-185-65-15-tyres-4-x-114-3-stud-pa/1124858539

 

My problem is I can't get any 16" wheels within the offset allowable range that clear my handbrake callipers.

Edited October 6, 2016 by PeterAllen

[wally57]

Was actually with my engineer yesterday he is on the adr commitee and the commitee working out a lot of the anomilies at tje moment. He tells me while some engineers are still working to VS9 it isn't actually in use anymore and the NCOP while not actually in law is the document they are working to now and if you comply with it you will get your car passed. Providing it is not contrary to any ADR'S.In the NCOP it doesn't give a specific size you can go up. It goes on about increasing tyre width 30% and says you then have to use a rim the right size for the tyres. I must admit it's all very confusing but he seems to understand the whole mess. Like the current misunderstanding over engine sizes etc a lot of what you can or can't do depends on your engineer and what he can or cannot prove. He is still sure he can get it done with 7" wheels but it would be much easier if we can find documentation confirming the use of wheels by Datsun on any of the previous 280zx models any where in the world.

Wally.

[PeterAllen]

Wally, you're not easing my fears about an inspection.

 

Basically I'll do whatever he/she wants, even if it means standing in a tea chest and singing Jerusalem.

[KatoKid]

....Im facing the same issue. No way I will present my car with 16 x 8 rims Im going to run but I havent checked if the brakes Im using will fit under the allowable size wheel

[PeterH]

Interesting..it looks we may finally a national standard that would be good... it looks like my information is out of date ( just like peter Allen).

Sounds like you have the right engineer on the job...I believe that a few years ago there was a shakeup with the engineering signatories and they all had to re apply for status.

I'll have good look through what I have here to see if any thing turns up.

 

Good luck....does this mean that I might see  your car some time when I'm  driving through Singleton?

 

Pete

[PeterH]

Is this any use??

[wally57]

Peter. Thanks for the info it may be what he is looking for. I'll pass it onto him and see if that is all he needs. His name is Ian Davies at Nabiac. He's pretty switched on and good to talk to. I was using another guy in Newcastle who screwed me and others around with a load of bad advice that set my project back a fair bit and cost me quite a bit of money. If you haven't talked to your engineer since the shake up a couple of years ago you should touch base with him again because there are a lot of changes. I hope to have it on the road by early next year so you may see it around.

Wally

[PeterH]

http://zshop.net.au/280tech.htm

 

I'm not looking for an engineer to certify mods, I was just asking about wheel sizes....the engineer was in Taree and very helpful and easy to talk to. I decided to go very conservative with 15 X 6 panasports and 205 60 tyres.

 

A bit more info ...this  scan, part of a comparison with a Celica,   is from the same book as the last one " Datsun Z series - the complete story " by David G Styles and the link shows  6JJ X 14 as an option.

Not sure how "verifiable " they are but hope it helps.

 

 

 

Pete

 

 

[PeterH]

A page from the Nissan parts book for the 280ZX...legibility is poor but it lists a 6 inch wheel. 

[PeterH]

Hi Wally...did you get any thing suitable for your engineer from the information on here?

 

Pete 

[wally57]

Probably not Pete. He is concerned the 280zx may be a bit of a stretch. He says he can get away with a 280z because it is still listed as an S30 same as the 260z, but the 280zx is listed as a S130 so it may be a bit of a stretch. I am trying to find documentation of the 240z factory rally cars that were sold standard with 6" rims. Everyone seems to be aware of them and all agree they came out with 6" wheels but no one seems to have any documentation on them. If we can find them it will make 7"s legal nationally. But that is the challenge.

Anyway thanks for the help you have all provided the hunt goes on.

 

Wally

[dat2kman]

The factory built 260Z's also had the 7" wide rims fitted.

These were for the European and South African markets.

 

They were also a authourised Nissan dealer fitment, on new cars, that were registered for road use, not circuit racing specials.

[PeterH]

Sorry ...I missed your post in the middle of this  about the 280ZX not being suitable.  

[peter t]

The rules now state that you comply with these guidlines.

Rolling Diameter :  + 15mm -  -26mm

"TYRE"Width < no more than 1.3 Wider than orignal.

 

No mention here of actual RIM size at all. What this equates to I have no  Idea.

[PZG302]

So that would mean with a period correct 175 wide tyre, or equivalent,  as would most likely have been fitted on the steel rims standard, you can run up to a 260 wide tyre, which means that depending on the tyre and allowable rims easily an 8 inch rim and up to a 10" rim.

 

But, again check with your engineer rather than dodgy interwebs advice.

[Cozza]

So that would mean with a period correct 175 wide tyre, or equivalent, as would most likely have been fitted on the steel rims standard, you can run up to a 260 wide tyre, which means that depending on the tyre and allowable rims easily an 8 inch rim and up to a 10" rim.

 

But, again check with your engineer rather than dodgy interwebs advice.

Not sure if I'm looking at it right but my calculator shows 175x1.3 ~ 225

?