How Easily Repaired Is This Rust?

[Dionysus]

Hi Guys, just want to get an opinion on the rust in the pics.

It's located at the front of the engine bay, 2 picture show either side of the rust

This is a car I'm thinking about purchasing and while I'm quite good with the mechanical side of things my knowledge of body repairs is still on the light side.

Ideally I would like to know if this an easy fix for a panel beater or require me sourcing a front end and replacing the whole lot but any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

 

Thanks

Edited January 11, 2016 by Dionysus

[d3c0y]

thats' not the end of the world, but definitely look at the problem areas and think about the areas on the underbody you cant see that may have lead to rust in these areas.

[C.A.R.]

Meh, that's easily fixed.

[Dionysus]

Thanks guys.

 

I've got a list of problem areas to check when I go see the car.

 

Is there a recommended repairer in Sydney members usually take their z's? Or even better a thread of some sort?

[gav240z]

These cars rust from the inside out, so I'd be more worried about the areas you can't see than the ones that stand out like this.

[PB260Z]

Hi,

 

This may well be a stupid question, but do you know the key areas to check for rust in a Z ?

 

Cheers

 

PB

[Dionysus]

I'm using these as a guide..

 

http://zhome.com/Classic/CommonZRust/RustPrevention240Z.htm

&

Starting at the front of the car.
1. Radiator support, lower.
2. Where the headlight extensions and the fenders meet (not important, I have spare fenders)
3. The front of the hood, especially on the inside front lip (I have a hood)
4. Passenger side fender well, under the battery box (As long as the firewall isn’t rusted out, it can be fixed) The less the better though. Anywhere on the firewall is bad.
5. Passenger side frame rail under the battery box and area where main wiring harness exits the firewall just above the rail. 
6. Both sides of the car, both frame rails underneath the floorboards. These are usually squashed, if they aren’t rusted through near where the firewall steel and the floorboard steel are joined together (right under your heels when you drive), that is ok. Aftermarket rails are available.
7. Floorboards: I have yet to see a Z without some rust underneath the pedals and on the passenger side as well, where the firewall and floor meet. Try the old scratch it with a screwdriver trick. If it goes through, that is bad!!!
8. Underneath the Cowl between the windshield and the hood ( wiper arm area)
9. Around the front windshield
10. Around the Ttop seals or side glass
11. Directly behind the seats, the rear end assembly bolts to the floorboards. There is usually some rust here on the floors and there, normally close to the rocker panel.
12. The rocker panels themselves. 
13. The lower door seams.
14. The rear Fender well area: Front corner at the rocker panel. Underneath the lip over the tire
15. Behind the rear quarter panels, the inner panels like to rust out.
16. Around the antenna.
17. Around the rear hatch seal areas
18. Around the tail lights
19. Above the muffler, the floor board of the rear deck may be rusted through
20. The spare tire floor area. Easily replaced with sheet steel.
21. Passenger side inner rear quarter panel, next to the spare tire floor.
22. Inside the rear hatch itself, the bottom likes to rust. I have spares.
23. The floor of the hatch area, a visual inspection usually shows up bubbling paint if it is rusted through.

 

From http://www.zcar.com/forum/13-car-talk-forum/245562-most-common-rust-spots.html

[PB260Z]

Yep, just about everywhere ! ;-)

[gav240z]

They pretty much rust everywhere, I'm always surprised that no 2 S30z's have rust in the same places. Every so often I find a Z has rust in a place I haven't yet seen them rust in, but again that's not a surprise.

 

If a car has been kept in a moist, damp environment or left outdoors for a long time, that just causes even more headaches. Sandblasting such cars has been known to make many owners cry themselves to sleep.

[Dionysus]

Is there any particular area/s which would set off major alarm bells and make you pass on the car?

 

[gav240z]

Is there any particular area/s which would set off major alarm bells and make you pass on the car?

 

 

 

Yeah when the plastic areas look rusty....

 

I'm generally of the opinion most stuff is worth saving at this point, but I would run a mile from this car...

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/topic/1924-cars-for-sale-3rd-party-sites-ebay-carsales-etc/?p=166035

 

Generally I'm not looking at 1 particular area that would make me avoid the entire car, rather i'm looking at the vehicle overall for the overall feeling I get about how rusty it is, is there other areas that look like they could have heavy corrosion? Or is it isolated to 1 section, the more places I find rust or evidence of it, the more I'd be worried.

 

However I'm far more wary of accident damage, especially severe accident damage. As that can take far more skill to correct. I think you should buy any S30z with rust like this as an indication that it could be the tip of the Iceberg. As we have seen many many times over on this forum, often what starts as a little rust turns into a mountain of Iron Ore dust once the car is stripped back.

 

So prepare for worst case scenario when buying.

[Dionysus]

haha, I dunno I think the dirt has preserved that dash quiet well!

The biggest hurdle I'm facing is mental and I like things to be as close to perfect as possible so getting into 260z leaves me open to some mental scarring..

Here's a pic of my R32, first r32 was perfect and got collected by someone who can't read a stop sign. This one received all the parts and got a fresh respray.


 

[gav240z]

The biggest hurdle I'm facing is mental and I like things to be as close to perfect as possible so getting into 260z leaves me open to some mental scarring..

 

I think if you have serious OCD with your cars, buying a vintage car is going to be tough!

 

You're either going to spend a fortune or never be quite happy with it. It could however be a good thing for you, as you may start to appreciate a bit of patina and wear and tear. For me patina and wear is something I've slowly started to enjoy, it shows something is used and loved and has history. That's not to say I don't appreciate them fully restored etc.. but there is something nice about the wear and tear also.

 

My 72 240z is not perfect, far from it. But I got it out when I was in Melbourne over Christmas and it doesn't matter if it's perfect or not. It managed to turn a lot of heads.

 

I actually miss being able to drive it already. What I like most about these old cars is how simple they are to work on. Everything is within easy access and the satisfaction of fixing things is a big part of enjoying the ownership in my opinion. 

[PB260Z]

I think if you have serious OCD with your cars, buying a vintage car is going to be tough!

 

Ain't that tbe truth, as someone who also owns a 70+ year old car there is ALWAYS something that isn't quite right Edited January 11, 2016 by PB260Z

[Andrew_L26]

Hey mate, I had rust there in my 260 and it turned out to be a massive problem (Now sorta fixed) Check out my thread here to see what the issues were.

 

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/topic/13668-definitely-purple-260z/page-5

 

If it is as bad as mine was I would probably suggest just getting new frame rails. I spent too much time bodging mine up and although it is strong in the eyes of the law it's still modifying your frame. Hopefully it's not too bad however I would strongly suggest taking off your tow points to get a good look

[Dionysus]

Well I'm flying out this evening to check out the car, wish me luck.

[Impatient1]

Sounds familiar, make sure you haven't bought in your mind before getting there and be prepared to walk away. Make sure it's consistently starts up if you are going to get it trucked over as it is more expensive for non starting cars. Good luck

[PB260Z]

Sounds familiar, make sure you haven't bought in your mind before getting there and be prepared to walk away.

That is VERY good advice, better to waste the airfare than $,000's on fixing the wrong car.

 

Hope it all checks out.

 

Cheers

 

PB

[Dionysus]

Hi Guys, just finished checking out the car. Did my best giving it the once over.

 

Here's an album which I uploaded pics to http://s362.photobucket.com/user/Silver3l/library/Mobile%20Uploads

 

Rust at the front which I shared previously which I'm a little worried about structurally, rust under seats, drivers side rear small window, little at the battery, so bubbles in the door well.

 

Under the car seemed ok, rear of the car seemed good, engine and rest of engine bay ok.

 

Umm trying to think of more.

 

Opinions?

Edited January 12, 2016 by Dionysus

[Dionysus]

Also dash is pretty screwed,not sure if they can restore 4 huge cracks. Interior needs a redo.

 

My main concern is body.

 

From the outside the car looks fantastic and a real head turner.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Dionysus

[Dionysus]

Main concern is the front of the car, and what it will take to repair it cost wise. I always planned on spending some cash on it but don't want to spend a huge amount in 1 area.

 

 

I'm going back to see it again in the morning.

[gav240z]

What is the asking price of the car? Is it a 260z 2 seater or 2+2? It looks like it was originally green and not metallic red the current colour. So anything can be hiding under previous paint work (not to say it's bad, just that you don't know what prep work went into the current paint).

 

Radiator support looks like it will be worse than anticipated, lower radiator support may be rotten inside judging by radiator photos and can be expensive to repair. Getting hard to find a good replacement for a 260z (240z and 260z radiator supports are different and can vary even by year!).

 

Lower sill rust bubble could mean more trouble in lower dog legs and sills. The rubber bung above it is not standard so could be there due to previous rust preventative coatings being applied and squirted into the area?

 

Photos of floors are hard to judge, usually a thick hardened sound deadener is lying on top of the floors and only when you lift it up do you find the true extent of the damage. The debris and crap in 1 of the floor photos suggests possible problems with rust holes in the floor, not sure if you got a look underneath? Depends on how bad it is as to weather or not you'll need to replace them entirely or be able to get away with patching only?

 

Surface rust near tail lights isn't too bad but could be indicative of problems under the rear beaver panel. Although mostly looks like surface rust from the photo. 

 

You really need to remove battery from tray to see under it, feel under it in the wheel arch area and knock it with your hand to see if it's solid. You can't tell from the photo supplied...

 

Quarter window rust isn't an issue, cheap to replace...But often when removing them you find rust in that area in the body itself...

 

How was the rear slam panel in the hatch area? The tail gate did it have rust in the bottom of it? Look underneath? Doors? Dog legs are almost always gone...

[gav240z]

Main concern is the front of the car, and what it will take to repair it cost wise. I always planned on spending some cash on it but don't want to spend a huge amount in 1 area.

 

 

I'm going back to see it again in the morning.

 

Honestly your expectations and reality of what you'll likely find on a car like this if you tear it down for a full repaint seem to be quite far apart. I don't know what a "huge amount" is to you but you could easily spend $10-$20k on the body work of an S30z restoration alone. Depending on who does the work and how much you do yourself + how extensive the rust is.

 

If I had known what I was up against when buying my S30z's in the beginning I may never have bought them, so I hesitate to be fully honest with what may lie ahead of you, sometimes ignorance is bliss.

 

If you expect to find a lot more rust, you'll be pleased if you find less when you do go to make her immaculate but if you expect to find only rust in the areas you know about then you're going to be heart broken when you discover botched repairs here and there from previous owners.

 

Current prices of 260z's lag behind 240z's and make them less viable for dumping large amounts of coin into restorations. You would do it for the love of the car, not return on capital outlay.

 

It all comes down to what you pay for it, what you want to spend on it and if you want to spend the time and effort getting it right, vs buying an already restored example. Which is getting harder to find at prices below $30k these days.

[Dionysus]

Asking price is 15k

They all technically had 4 seats? Or only the 2+2?

 

The rails underneath the car seemed ok. Nothing dented and I couldn't seem anything bad.

 

Slam panel had a tiny bit of rust only.

Tail gate good.

 

How do I check the dogleg? You can't get in there.

[Dionysus]

From a financial point of view Is buying a 260z for 15k and spending 10k on it a waste or is 25k or 30k a wise investment?

 

Personal view I'm after really.