Early 74 260z

[74zzz]

Hey all

Wanting to get a little more info on the 240 shelled 260.  Anyone know how many were built? Differences etc? I have one so am interested in how they differed from the later 2 seaters. I'm assuming there wasn't too many of them.

 

Cheers

[gav240z]

I don't know if we should refer to them as 240z shelled 260z's. I'd say we should probably refer to early 260z's as sharing similarities with early S30z's. Remember it wasn't just Datsun 240z's that had the early style shell, but also Nissan Fairlady Z's which had L20s in them.

 

Nissan made many changes over the years, the very first early S30z's had differences compared to later 72,73 model cars and over the years there was many many changes to the body shell.

 

In terms of Aussie delivered RS30 prefixed cars, it's difficult to say how many we received. The numbers we often see quoted around seem to have no real 'official source' and it's hard to know if those numbers included other markets like NZ.

 

For sure after 73 the majority of S30z's sold in Australia were GRS30's and I'm not sure why Nissan decided to send 2+2s our way as opposed to 2 seaters, it could be because of other saloon cars of the period doing well here and perhaps Nissan thought a 2 seater wasn't going to cut it the same? It seems most other markets were the opposite like in the US a 2+2 is incredibly rare these days.

 

A good start would be to look at the S30z registry set up on WA Zcars. See how many are left and perhaps compare with other specifications to extrapolate out an estimate of survivors vs originally delivered cars.

 

Legend has it less 260z 2 seaters were delivered than 240z's, but it seems to me that more 260z's show up for sale than 240z's and I seem to recall 15 years ago that it was much rarer to see a 240z on the road than a 260z 2 seater. So anecdotal evidence suggests that maybe that is wrong?

 

[gilltech]

Ditto what gav240 says.

Anyway I've got one, RS30, NZ-new, #115. Owned by me since '84.

No 2+2 available at that time, it was launched later.

Also factory '260' style mags only became available later.

I've found you have to be careful when sourcing parts. Mainly in the underpinnings - more in common with the late 240s than later 260s. Strut inserts, springs, stuff like that.

I think the differences though were more pronounced in the USA cars - early '74 vs late '74 - than in this part of the world. So be careful if ordering parts from a USA supplier - may differentiate between early & late '74 but not always.

And NOTE there are even some small differences between Australia-new & NZ-new 260s too.

There have been discussions on this forum in the past about build numbers, rather inconclusive IIRC.

[gilltech]

Further to gav240 - I don't have any numbers to back this up but my impression when in the NZ Datsun Z club was that the early '74 RS30 was just about as common there as all the later RS30s put together. Must have been a reasonable boatload number arrive in late '73.

I think sales of new 260s tapered off quite quickly (economic conditions?) & were replaced with used imports - 'Jap imports' (usually 5-6 year old cars) are big business over there - so there's quite a mix of 2-seaters, 2+2s, ex-Japan Fairladys, plus odd ones from different countries with different specs imported privately.

Whereas here in Australia, few people outside of the Z community seem to realize that there even IS such a thing as a 2-seater 260.

 

[locklock]

What was the highest vin ever sold(posted for sale)for HS 240z  and highest vin sold for RS 260z?

Maybe can roughly gauge which is rarer?

[Sirpent]

Hi Folks

 

I may wade into this for reasons I will explain later.

 

The 260Z was a car that should never had been in my opinion, I base this on a few facts

 

From a U.S. perspective (As they were the main export market for the S30) the 260Z was available only during the 1974 model year as a transition year with a minor displacement upgrade to overcome more restrictive pollution requirements prior to the conversion to fuel injection in the 280Z.

 

Early production 260Z's can be found assembled with 240Z parts as a strategy to use up remaining 240Z parts production, interestingly, it wasn’t only 240Z parts bin bits that were turfed onto them, but also US spec 280Z parts. My Z is a compliance plated 1/75  car, first registration in 5/75, which meant that with shipping transit allowance along with bond storgae here in Australia for compliance and pre delivery purposes it was probably a july / August 1974 build car.

 

However as Lurch will vouch, when he was doing my front strut coilovers, I had a 240Z strut on the passenger side, and a 260Z strut on the driver’s side.

 

In addition to this, my floor pan has what I have been told is a California floor pan with a distinct bulge where the planned cat converter was to reside in the US 280Z's along with the connector for the electric fuel pump in the rear wiring loom.

 

I guess you can call my car a parts basket case.

 

By the 1974 model year, the emission standards had tightened in the US such that the de-tuning techniques used to meet them were seriously reducing engine efficiency and thus increasing fuel usage. The new emission standards for 1975 model year, as well as the increase in fuel usage, forced the invention of the catalytic converter for after-treatment of the exhaust gas. This was not possible with existing leaded gasoline, because the lead residue contaminated the platinum catalyst. In 1972, General Motors proposed to the American Petroleum Institute the elimination of leaded fuels for 1975 and later model year cars.

 

The production and distribution of unleaded fuel was a major challenge, but it was completed successfully in time for the 1975 US model year cars.

 

My belief is that Nissan created the 260Z as a bridge allowing them to temporarily develop a car with updated interior treatment and a slightly more powerful drivetrain package that would guarantee sales continuity in the states while also being a reasonable upgrade package for other markets such as Australia etc who were not at the point of introducing unleaded. If Australia and other nations had introduced unleaded earlier we may have seen the 280Z here as in in the states.

 

Therefore, my belief is that the 260 was a car that almost never was.

 

By all means, start throwing knives at this argument as you see fit ;-)

 

Cheers

 

John

 

[74zzz]

ahhh so was literally thinking 240z shells were used as some of the googling seems to point in that direction..........mine has a few oddities that I am trying to figure out.........the old door skins were 260z but cards were stuffed so bought 240z panels because that was all i could get in good nick........the doors had new theads tapped and tack welded in which made me think they were from a donor 240 however when i went to fit the 240z cards the cutouts only lined up with the lock knob, winder and door latch......no pull strap........ so im guessing there must be a difference in the early/late 260 door configuration? Also i was going to buy a 280z console as I was told these were a straight swap for 260s but im wondering if the early 260 had 240z mounting points?..... never considered the struts as i just assumed theyd be 55mm but could they be 240z struts? this will change my coilover purchase and effect wheel offsets wont it? as Ive seen here that rota 15 fit certain struts but not other because or perch location? also have bought everything but the elusive and bloody expensive licence plate light for a 240z taillight conversion and was hoping i may just be able to bolt in without taking a cutter to it if it was a 240z shell:)

 

not wanting to buy stuff that aint gonna fit:)

[d3c0y]

How do you know that your car had its original struts in it?

 

 

In terms of this topic, a genuine '74 car was in production in the last half of '73 and is different to the 75, doesn't have the cat bump like Sirpent mentioned, 240Z style wiring etc.

 

 

From what i have been able to gather it goes like this:

(Disclaimer for HS30-H, this may not be the correct terminology, but it is how i classify them)

Late '73 - Mid '74 = MY74

Late '74 - Mid '76 = Series 1 260Z

Late '76 - Mid '78 = Series 2 260Z

Late '78 = 280ZX started.

 

 

 

44014 has a low '74 and we've seen the sort of thing. Early 260Zs have different door trims and doors to both 240Zs and what i call S2 260Zs. 280Z console will fit.

[d3c0y]

With the strut tubes you call tell just by measuring the diameter. You will either have 51mm or 55mm for 260Z. Again 44014's car had all 240Z struts.

[Sirpent]

 

From what i have been able to gather it goes like this:

 

(Disclaimer for HS30-H, this may not be the correct terminology, but it is how i classify them)

Late '73 - Mid '74 = MY74

Late '74 - Mid '76 = Series 1 260Z

Late '76 - Mid '78 = Series 2 260Z

Late '78 = 280ZX started.

 

44014 has a low '74 and we've seen the sort of thing. Early 260Zs have different door trims and doors to both 240Zs and what i call S2 260Zs. 280Z console will fit.

 

 

I would concur with you MY classification and what effect it had on production configuration.

 

It would be interesting to do a table of all member cars by chassis number then identify delivery and compliance dates and major points of construction difference such as the CAT Bump, rear tower heights, interior fit out, etc etc etc

 

This would give a more definitive road map of exactly which workers at Nissan were working night shift and downing copious volumes of Saki while the cars went down the production line LMAO

 

Cheers

 

John

[74zzz]

mine is 4/74. not sure bout the struts havent got that far just yet focusing on the interior and engine first then will get stuck into the suspension. but will prob get 15x8 rkrs in the next few months so will need to test fit before handing cash over to ensure there is no issues.

 

Cheers for the feedback

[Lynton]

The 2+2 was introduced late 74 with hubcaps it was introduced because there were no MGB's, No Jensen Healeys, No Triumph TR6, No midgets or sprites or spitfires, even the alpha spider was close to finishing production the 2 seaters were out of vogue in Australia, when I purchased my 260Z 2 seater in 1975 they were hard to get, the oil crisis was happening, by late 1977 compared to 2+2's they sold about 70+ 2 seaters in that year they were not very popular the 2+2 was all over them in 1975 the pollution changes had started to happen hence why in the USA 260z became the 280z with fuel injection but not out here in Oz until the 280ZX introduced in 1979 officially Lynton

[gilltech]

RS30 #115

No cat bump.

No, wiring loom is different to the late 240s - mainly with the weatherproof plugs. Less of it too compared to later 260s.

No wiring for elect fuel pump.

Has got built-in wiring for fog lamps, did 240s? But not much else.

Yes 51mm dia. struts. Thin sway bar.

Yes the later consoles fit just the same; are slightly stronger around the choke lever, & many had the storage compartment lid - whereas mine doesn't, but you can see impressions in the plastic where the slots to take the hinges would go (choice of LHD or RHD side).

Diamond pattern vinyl on the floor tunnel & floor riser, I think later 260s had carpet?

Same seat vinyl as the 240, many later 260s seemed to get cloth.

[d3c0y]

Some of those points aren't quite right.

 

 

Same seat vinyl as the 240, many later 260s seemed to get cloth. - Only JDM cars had cloth interior option. Aus zeds were all vinyl and 240Z/S1 260Z/S2 260Z all had different patterns.

 

 

Diamond pattern vinyl on the floor tunnel & floor riser, I think later 260s had carpet? - Again they all had vinyl, 260Z has a smaller pattern to 240Z.

 

 

No wiring for elect fuel pump. - Even 240Zs have the wiring for the electric fuel pump, they might just be tucked up under the back. S2 260Z had a stock electric pump.

 

 

Has got built-in wiring for fog lamps, did 240s?  Yes they did - well my '73 does.

[gilltech]

Only JDM cars had cloth interior

Yes I've seen a number of those in NZ, mostly 2+2s, used cars imported in the '80s.

At least some UK cars had some sort of fabric - corduroy-looking stuff - seat insert. I think maybe NZ too on later cars, Nzeder might know; Aus-new & NZ-new cars were different. I'll check through my info.

Also some cars I've seen used a thin carpet or felt over the tunnel & riser, no diamond vinyl to be seen, cars ex USA or Europe maybe.

[i'm talking about what appeared to be original worn-in not restored cars, with tired faded interiors, all that patina].

One thing is clear, the cars differed quite a bit in detail over the, what, 8yrs? of production, & to suit the different markets they were sold in.

Which doesn't help 74ZZZ much in his query...

[74zzz]

Any info is welcomed.......given the interest in these cars now i would like to educate myself a little more on their intricacies

 

gilltech is yours still in pieces? i think weve been in contact before when i was looking for owners near by to go for a few social runs........

[gilltech]

Only JDM cars had cloth interior option. Aus zeds were all vinyl

Not quite so. I've collected a stack of road tests & info in the 31yrs I've owned my Zed, just checked a few.

Modern Motor (Aus) for Sept 1974, their first test of "Datsun's Fabulous Four-Spot" - ie. 2+2. Car has NSW plates. Three interior shots clearly show cloth inserts in the front & rear seats, some dark/light pattern almost a fine houndstooth. That's the style I've seen on numerous cars over the years.

Back in the '80s when I was an active club member in Akld, there were several ex-Aus cars, I noticed then that they typically had higher specs with A/C & less tacky shiny vinyl compared to our NZ-new cars. In my opinion anyway!

 

Practical Classics April 2000 (UK mag) states that "post-'77 260s had corduroy seat inserts".

Classic and Sportscar (UK mag) Jan 1984 when comparing the 240, 260 & 2+2, states "The 260Z coupe was to continue in production on the European markets until 1978...the car had much better trim than the 240Z with carpet extending up to the transmission tunnel sides and corduroy centre panels in the seats."

This is off track from the original questions, but helps show the variety of specs across the Zeds & how they improved or went a little more up-market over time.

 

Gidday 74ZZZ, yes my car is still sitting in storage, but is complete not in bits. I have a working Mustang, very seldom find time to take that out as it is, let alone to put my Zed back on the road although it shouldn't take much. Just time poor.

[d3c0y]

I'll pay that and rephrase to Aus market cars didnt have cloth interiors. Maybe the pic in the magazine was an early press car or stock photos from Japan?

[gilltech]

Yeah who knows? Could have been, it's a common trick, provide a max-optioned car for press review.....

Or a special order for a dealer or someone with connections....

I don't think it was a terribly good choice of fabric either! Prone to discolouration.

Anyway, all a bit academic 40+ yrs on with most cars having long been re-trimmed by now.

One of the criticisms of the earlier Zeds was the vinyl seat covering which was so prone to splitting.

[Mike260LW]

A bit of a late entry into this discussion, but I'm a bit of a fan of the early74 260Z, having owned three of them now. Interesting commentary on seat trim. One of them, 0000851 had black and white hounds tooth inserts. Probably reupholstered, but maybe not. All have sported the smaller diameter struts and lower rear strut towers. The doors are also unique in terms of window mechanisms and door cards. This a real problem if you are looking for replacements. I haven't seen this configuration in a 260z with a VIN much over 0001000. Australia did seem to receive a large chunk of these.

 

Agree with Sirpent comments re anti pollution requirements of the U.S. Market but I think the real issue was the 5 mph impact bumper legislation the U.S. Brought in in 1973.  Is this what dictated the change to the later (late 74 onwards) heavier shell with beefier chassis rail extensions under the floor and bigger taller struts to cope with extra weight of heavy bumpers and absorbers. I've often wondered whether the lighter cars were packed off to none US markets to get rid of them while they transitioned into the heftier US spec shells which were later rolled out to all markets. 

[gilltech]

Good points. And it would appear that NZ got it's share too, mine is #115, a former boss of mine had #130, there have been more than just a few others I've seen there in a similar number range.

 

the later (late 74 onwards) heavier shell with beefier chassis rail extensions

The US-spec 260s from the outset had different bumpers to our cars, not just from late '74.

 

FWIW my NZ-spec early '74 has also got provision for installing rear impact absorbers in the rear rails, and very obvious are the removable large black rubber grommets in the rear apron panel.

[gav240z]

I've been watching this thread and wanting to chime in but it's all bit too much effort at the moment (haven't been so well today) so in the interim. Here is 2 links worth reading.

 

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,5612.0.html

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php?topic=15029.10

[gilltech]

Hope you're feeling better tomorrow.

Thanks for the links, no doubt they will be of interest to the OP too.

[Des]

I'm so green when it comes to my car,so is this original trim in a 74 2 seater ?

[gilltech]

Hmmm, no I wouldn't think so; look I'm no expert but IMO - I think - your seats have been totally recovered in what looks to me to be a type of wool textured fabric.

Whereas the original seats I've seen have been all vinyl except for the centre panel which has been a flat cloth with a small 'houndstooth' (I think it's called that) pattern.

Interesting though, with your seats, the upholsterer may well perhaps have made some effort to match what was there originally, albeit using a more comfortable & forgiving material?

That's my guess anyway.

 

FWIW when I had my seats recovered (decades ago now), it was way cheaper if the trimmer made whole new seat covers using the old ones as patterns, rather than pick the seams of the old ones apart & try to just replace those panels that were splitting. As the old all-vinyl Zed seats were wont to do as they aged & got brittle. Just MO.