Chassis Number Bingo

[HS30-H]

OK, who wants to play a spot of Chassis Number Bingo?

 

We often talk about low chassis numbers, but what about the high ones?

 

Question: What's the highest known body serial number for the 'HS30' prefix in Australia and New Zealand?

 

As we know, production of the 'HS30' prefixed cars (that includes RHD Export 'Datsun 240Z' models as well as RHD Japanese market 'Nissan Fairlady 240Z/Fairlady 240Z-L/Fairlady 240ZG' models) ended before 1973 was out, but what was the highest 'HS30' prefixed body serial number?

 

I've got some numbers for the Japanese market cars, but I believe some RHD Export market cars were still being made to fill late orders after the end of Japanese market car production. How high did they go?

 

Over to you....

[gav240z]

HS30-103779 - 240Z - Build date 9/1973

 

I cheated.

http://www.wazregister.com/index.php?title=View_ANZIS30_Register_Cars

 

Sorted by ascending order.

[HS30-H]

Ooh, that's good. Never seen that before.

 

How complete might that be though? Any advance on 'HS30-103779'?

[Riceburner]

My car is a slightly earlier build number but a later date?

 

HS30-103 771  11/1973

[gav240z]

Ooh, that's good. Never seen that before.

 

How complete might that be though? Any advance on 'HS30-103779'?

 

Mr Camouflage maintains that register, it's the most complete record I know of, of HS30 cars in Australia / NZ. Sadly it's not something everyone is aware of or actively submits their details to. I was thinking of creating a way for people to register details here when they join and perhaps people who have submitted get access to a restricted section of the site - which has been brought up before as something longer term members wanted.

 

I know you have mentioned in the past that Nissan jumped numbers along the way to indicate changes in production. Do you have any ideas when these numbers changed and what those manufacturing changes were?

[HS30-H]

My car is a slightly earlier build number but a later date?

 

HS30-103 771  11/1973

 

The issue of actual build dates is its own can 'o worms. Can be especially tricky when it's to do with compliance/registration dates too. Officially Nissan had finished building HS30-prefixed cars by 11/73, so I assume yours is a compliance date or something like that?

 

A few cars would get out of sequence due to quality control / rectification, so that muddies the water too. I'm just talking about the body serial numbers here really.

 

[HS30-H]

I know you have mentioned in the past that Nissan jumped numbers along the way to indicate changes in production. Do you have any ideas when these numbers changed and what those manufacturing changes were?

 

That's a big topic on its own, Gav. Still conflicting information and data out there, too.

 

I've been trying to get a proper handle on it through Nissan and my fellow Club S30 members in Japan for a good few years now, as I'm particularly interested in the Japanese market cars and their serial number jumps. I know where most of the jumps are I think, but they don't always pertain to updates, minor changes or calendar dates.

 

Might leave it for another topic if you don't mind?

[gav240z]

Sure if anything I'd like to know just how many cars we received over here and what chassis numbers they ranged from. I'm also curious how the NZ cars were sequenced and from what I gather some cars were sent to NZ and some here, which explains why not all our cars are in sequence.

 

I'm pretty sure HS30 00016 was sent to NZ as Mike (Nzeder) used to own it. Yet it seems we got #19. Aside from that the earliest S30z I know of is HS30 0004.

 

Did cars of different markets and specification share the same chassis number range? You mentioned HS30 prefixed cars earlier, were the Japanese market cars mixed in with the AU market numbers?

 

Is it possible there is 2 HS30 cars out there with the same ID?

 

[HS30-H]

Did cars of different markets and specification share the same chassis number range? You mentioned HS30 prefixed cars earlier, were the Japanese market cars mixed in with the AU market numbers?

 

Is it possible there is 2 HS30 cars out there with the same ID?

 

No. It would be madness to do that for all sorts of reasons.

 

All the 'HS30' prefixed cars share a body serial number sequence, whether they were Export or Japanese Domestic market variants. Likewise all the 'HLS30' prefixed cars share a body serial number sequence whether they were north American market, greater European, Scandinavian or any other LHD Export market.

 

As we know, no 'S30' or 'PS30' prefixed Japanese market cars were officially exported, and they didn't share their body serial number sequences with any other models. However, the prefix doesn't tell the whole story as there were sub-variants of each type (EG 'S30' and 'S30-S' shared a sequences, as did 'PS30' and PS30-SB') so that's where the suffixes come into play... 

 

I don't see any pattern in Export body serial number sequences. Body serial numbers were sequential in production, but liable to individual hold-ups (quality control/rectification) which could have made certain cars late onto the boats, and - anecdotally - things were a little bit fraught. Nissan Shatai were struggling to meet demand and the logistics of supplying a growing world market were causing all sorts of problems for Nissan. As far as the lower serial numbered 'early production' cars were concerned I don't think it's all that surprising to see them spread into several different markets when new. Dealers would have wanted at least one or two cars at first, and that's probably all they were able to get. Later it would have made sense to see batches of cars for certain markets going down the production line together, and I think that's pretty much what we see when we look back at it now. Quite often the cars went down the line in colour batches too, so not surprising to see sequential numbers in the same colour.   

[Patch]

Just something about New Zealand and Japanese exports that may mean nothing or may do, but I bought a Suzuki GN400L about January 1979 supposedly 3 came into the country as dealer samples, I ended up trading it in later that year after dropping in the gravel for a new GS1000s that had just came out in 1979, the Gn sat in the workshop for months as the parts book was not even out yet to order parts for it, if you Google the bike it was produced from 1980- 1982. NZ was a known testing ground for early release of lots of new things to the market. Did they get a early release of the 240.

[Riceburner]

The issue of actual build dates is its own can 'o worms. Can be especially tricky when it's to do with compliance/registration dates too. Officially Nissan had finished building HS30-prefixed cars by 11/73, so I assume yours is a compliance date or something like that?

 

A few cars would get out of sequence due to quality control / rectification, so that muddies the water too. I'm just talking about the body serial numbers here really.

 

 

Yep that's correct Alan, that date is on the Australian compliance plate.

 

Looking at the register I can see the other late car 103779 is the same color and is also an automatic. Although my car is now a manual.

[dat2kman]

General Motors Holden, and Ford Motor Company, here in Australia did build quite a number of cars that had no body serial numbering on them,

These were Special Builds on request from within the company, and they had production line deletions and additions,

Mainly additional seam and spot welding, and only one primer dip coat, and one final top coat.

 

The finished cars were either allcated to be Company use as test beds, or allocated as "out the back factory door" to certain race drivers or race/rally teams.

 

Surprisingly, a few survived and got out into the real world, and are in circulation today.

Some were also given the same setial/VIN number as other cars, but only if those particular other cars had been destroyed.

 

Tand others ( with no dentifier numbering, were built as fully prpared "T" (spare) Group C Touring cars, and were sat in the big transporters of the teams at race tracks, in case one of the other actual race cars were rendered inoperative mid meeting.

 

This now creates a bit of a quandary today, as there are duplicate Group C cars, both the same, and both from the one race meeting, driven by one oroginal driver!

[chris240]

Gav, Probably time to give the Wazregister a fresh plug.

Id say 1/4 of the owners here dont know it exists, (I obviously didnt  list my surname or suburb when I put my details up there many years ago. )

Nevertheless , Its just an interesting list of dates and numbers..

[PeterH]

Bingo...well sort of almost.....I can claim103779 but I have seen a later one advertised on car sales......I think it was  late last year and  in Qld.

According to the original service book ,it was delivered on 10/10/1973 through Straightway Motors in Cheltenham, and to the best of my knowledge had only one registered owner in it's life.

[G]

I have 103731, but my engine number is higher at 190002.

[chris240]

Hi Peter, mines also oct 73 , but my number is 2904, which means yours came out on a fast cargo ship and mine arrived on some sort of tall ship, which battled thru 2 cyclones and was held up at the wharves for 3 months and then held up at customs because of a rare endangered beetle which was found under the hatch.

[gav240z]

S.African or any other LHD Export market.

 

Were South African models HSL30 prefixed? I thought they were HS30 like AU and NZ, at least when I was last in South Africa they drove on the correct side of the road like the UK, AU, Japan etc.. Unless they switched?

 

So I had always assumed some of the HS30 cars made their way to the UK, Australia, NZ, South Africa, Malta(?), (home market JDM).

 

As far as the lower serial numbered 'early production' cars were concerned I don't think it's all that surprising to see them spread into several different markets when new. Dealers would have wanted at least one or two cars at first, and that's probably all they were able to get. Later it would have made sense to see batches of cars for certain markets going down the production line together, and I think that's pretty much what we see when we look back at it now. Quite often the cars went down the line in colour batches too, so not surprising to see sequential numbers in the same colour.

 

This is what makes sense to me, HS30 00149, 150, and 151 all were 920 Safari Gold and it seems they were all Victorian cars at least originally. However it seems we have number gaps all over the place for the early cars, which led me to assume that either:

 

a.) The missing cars in between have all been crushed, wrecked, destoryed etc..

or

b.) We only got some of those HS30 numbered cars.

 

I've seen a couple of people here mentioned the first 400 (HS30) cars were 'early' in terms of production differences. But that doesn't mean we got 400 early cars in Australia, the real number is something a lot more difficult to figure out. Either way the number of early cars left here seems to be very very small (

 

Gav, Probably time to give the Wazregister a fresh plug.

Id say 1/4 of the owners here dont know it exists, (I obviously didnt  list my surname or suburb when I put my details up there many years ago. )

Nevertheless , Its just an interesting list of dates and numbers..

 

I believe I have a sticky thread in the introduction category of the forum, but yes I think it needs more promotion. I've actually been thinking it makes sense to store the data here (which is something to discuss with Craig) because this is where the majority of S30z enthusiasts spend their time on the Internet on this side of the world.

 

I've bought the Content module for Invision Power.

https://www.invisionpower.com/apps/content/

 

Which offers the ability (see database tab)..

 

Manage databases and fields easily

 

Databases created in IP.Content can be managed entirely from within the IPS Community Suite AdminCP, including the database itself, categories, fields and records. Adding new fields to the database is as simple as entering some data into a form - a range of field types are supported, each with useful customization options.

 

 

 

Flexible templating lets you achieve almost anything

 

Each database you create has category, record listing and record view templates, which are edited right in the AdminCP of your community. The default templates display data in a traditional row-by-row format, but with HTML knowledge and creativity, templates can display your data in almost any way you can imagine. Database templates support the full range of IPS Community Suite template features, including HTML Logic tags, PHP and special template tags. Plus, IP.Content Blocks can be added to templates too.

 

I'm thinking of using this feature to create a register that allows for more than just text information, but also ability to upload an image of these vehicles so that we can keep track of their history over time. This is why I list chassis #'s where available in the cars for sale thread. To keep track of their movements and also help prevent any skullduggery. It would also help owners understand their cars history and perhaps boost their value as a result? So that's the incentive to divulge the info.

 

Also a good idea and what Craig has already started is a deceased register to keep track of cars that went to the crusher.

 

 

[NickF]

Think we got quite a lot of early cars.

As they don't have to put the vin nos when selling UK cars its a bit hard to know, but I think we would have a lot more early cars here than the UK

Salty winter roads would have destroyed a lot of UK cars

All RHD 240Z were HS30 ?

 

Nick

[HS30-H]

Were South African models HSL30 prefixed? I thought they were HS30 like AU and NZ, at least when I was last in South Africa they drove on the correct side of the road like the UK, AU, Japan etc.. Unless they switched?

 

S. Africa is RHD and 'HS30' prefixed cars (not very many, actually...). I was trying not to forget S.African and accidentally lumped it in with the LHD market I was talking about. I've now gone back an edited to correct it. Sorry about the confusion.

 

 

 

This is what makes sense to me, HS30 00149, 150, and 151 all were 920 Safari Gold and it seems they were all Victorian cars at least originally. However it seems we have number gaps all over the place for the early cars, which led me to assume that either:

 

a.) The missing cars in between have all been crushed, wrecked, destoryed etc..

or

b.) We only got some of those HS30 numbered cars.

 

A bit of both, I think.

[PeterH]

Another number that is in  the  original service book for my car is listed as " car number" .... I'm guessing that it's a stock number....perhaps that would make more sense chronologically....( I doubt that many current owners would have that ) .. when bought my original 240Z in early 1973 I was asked to take it back to the dealer to correct an error in their records  (and it's only 40 something years ago ) but I'm sure it was the " car number" and it was written in marking pen on the inner guard...

 

yep Chris..... my car is obviously faster than yours...... will you turn on all the heaters in Canberra please??? I'll be down there again next week...

[HS30-H]

Think we got quite a lot of early cars.

As they don't have to put the vin nos when selling UK cars its a bit hard to know, but I think we would have a lot more early cars here than the UK

Salty winter roads would have destroyed a lot of UK cars

 

The story is that the first proper batch of UK market 'HS30' prefixed Datsun 240Zs (apart from just two cars which came over earlier in connection with the Motor Show) was cancelled because it was found that they didn't actually comply fully with new legislation on front lighting. A hasty re-design of headlamps (incorporating sidelights) and front indicators (taking them out of the quarter valances where they were too low to comply, and putting them on top of the bumper) was undertaken and - allegedly - some of that batch of cars ended up in Aus./NZ. It's hard to judge how much of the 'diverted batch' story is true, but certainly the UK lighting compliance failure was a fact. And at that time Nissan's UK operation (Datsun UK) was being run as a franchised concession, and the concessionaire wasn't really all that interested in sports cars. He wanted cheap-as-chips little saloons to pile high and sell cheap...

 

And yes, salty winter roads killed a lot of original UK market 240Zs. But most of those cars were going rusty before they even arrived in the UK, having spent days and weeks on the dock at Honmoku Wharf before spending weeks (up to 6 if they went around Africa the long way) in salty sea air on the boat.   

 

All RHD 240Z were HS30 ?

 

Yes, all RHD 'Datsun 240Z' models were 'HS30' prefixed, but - and here's the thing that a lot of people forget - not all 'HS30' prefixed cars were 'Datsun 240Zs'. The 'HS30' prefix was used by (L24 engined) 'Nissan Fairlady 240Z', 'Fairlady 240Z-L' and 'Fairlady 240ZG' models for the Japanese market between late 1971 and the end of 1973 too.

[HS30-H]

Another number that is in  the  original service book for my car is listed as " car number" .... I'm guessing that it's a stock number....perhaps that would make more sense chronologically....( I doubt that many current owners would have that ) .. when bought my original 240Z in early 1973 I was asked to take it back to the dealer to correct an error in their records  (and it's only 40 something years ago ) but I'm sure it was the " car number" and it was written in marking pen on the inner guard...

 

That would make sense as a distribution number. It's the kind of data that would be really useful in helping us to understand what went where, and when, and I can't help feeling that somewhere - deep within Nissan's records - all this data exists in some form. It just hasn't been curated properly, and all the parties concerned (Nissan Motors, Nissan Shatai, the distributors/shippers and the local in-country Nissan organisation) haven't joined the wires together. Lots of data has been trashed/lost/misplaced, but there must still be a fair bit still existing somewhere... 

[gav240z]

@Peter that docket is awesome, because it appears to tell us the AU market suffix is HS30(UA) - I wonder if New Zealand was HS30 (UZ)?

 

@Alan - I can only hope that the data does get curated at some point, it would really help put together some of the missing pieces. I'm guessing this is part of what you're trying to do here.

 

Any idea how many HS30's were exported to South Africa? Any to Botswana or Nimibia, Zimbabwe, Zambia? Or is it likely they made their way across the borders after being sold in South Africa? I did see a few old Datsun's in Cape Town, including the anomaly '140z' at Cape Town Airport. Sadly no S30z's.

 

I guess what I'm wondering is what were the official export markets for Nissan back then and in particular what were the export markets for HS30's?

[zed74]

This attachment is from my Nissan Datsun "Warranty and Service Booklet" for my 1972 240z

[zed74]

Typewriter needed glasses OR maybe I have the ONLY H530 in the "whole Wide World!"