Six piston Willwoods always leaking.

[Gordo]

Guys ,I've been playing with my new Arozona front disk and calliper set up for a few months now. I cannot get the bleed nipples to seal. Everytime I think it's OK ,I look the next weekend and there is brake fluid around the bleed nipples! I can get a firm peddle but not as good as my old brakes. Have put one and a half litres of fluid through the Callipers . Any one got any tricks to seal the nipple to the calliper . I've never had this problem befor.

[Zedman240®]

Gordon, Is there a tapered seat to the nipples? Check in case theres a score or any rubbish in taper or get another pair of bleed nipples from Wilwood in case theres a machining fault?

[Gordo]

Yer ,have looked at that, fluid seem to be coming up through the thred, not out the bleed hole. Wipe my finger over the top of nipple and is dry, but at seat wipe around the thred there is a small pool of fluid after over night. Might have to buy some new bleed nipples.

[dat2kman]

The tapered seat is not sealing correctly.

The fluid will then slowly leak.

New bleed niples, if not fixed, then the caliper will require a taper machined and posdibly a new thread cut with larger diam thread bleed nipples.

 

A decent/large brake reco shop should be able to do this.

[Gordo]

I think your on to it Jason. They are brand new, would have expected a bit more quality than this. Do you know of this happening before? This would explain why I was getting a peddle , but the next day was not as good.

[dat240z]

Mate I had the exact same iss from AZC when I did the 4 disc wilwood upgrade.  Heres a tip, call High Perfromance World (willwood supplier and dist in Aust). I bought some new factory nipples for $30 for 6 or so I think. Still may have some lying around. I know when we bled brakes after install I bent/ripped some off. (the brakes that is:))

[PZG302]

Don't ever disassemble your calipers you will be very dissapointed in the quality of finish, well I was with my old dynalites, still worked a treat though.

 

Depending on the size of bleeders needed I may have some to suit that I can give to Lurch when he is up in a couple of weeks.

[NZeder]

I believe said calipers are now made in a large land near Australia that has a massive wall and this might be the reason for the disappointment PZG302.

 

A bit off topic......but

 

I picked up some new calipers for the track car - I have options here in NZ as we have different classic classes/rules to build/run under.

 

1. One is run the factory MK63 front and rear like the group4 spec cars that Nissan entered into a number of FIA events.

2. Run a period caliper that was available in period.

3. Stock stuff.

4. Some classes allow the fitment of wilwoods as they were available from late 77 - however the same caliper is no longer available - sure there is still a caliper with the same pads, piston size and name - but the design is slightly different - still lug mount and 2 piece design so that makes the organizers happy.

 

Anyway I have some calipers made from the original foundries/castings as what was available from the early 70's - 74 I believe and USA made. They are the same spec as the said Asian made (for US company) in fact the original caliper from the US company you have issues with is a copy of the ones I have - going by the images online. I say this as the ones I purchased were around long before the other guys and these use the same pads, have the same mounting location and offsets/specs etc. So given they were around first you could say the company calipers you have issues with either copied these or had them made under contract.

 

What is also interesting is that both companies had a caliper that share the same name - so maybe that implies there was a manufacturing/design relationship sometime in the late 70's. I am lead to believe these calipers with the same name (only sold by the company that ACZ uses today - so it might have been their design) are also made from the same foundries as period - but they are 6 pots and very wide/large.

 

 

[PZG302]

Nope, mine were made ins big country on the other side of a big pond to the one you were referring to....

[NZeder]

Nope, mine were made ins big country on the other side of a big pond to the one you were referring to....

I thought you were talking about your dynalites and that company does get a lot of their stuff made in CN these days. 99% of rotors these days come from China....however I believe that might be turning around slowly as the cost of manufacturing in CN goes up.

[dat240z]

Why bag the blokes brakes regarding quality and origin.... Hes asking for advice, not a bath fellas. For the record I reckon they are outstanding value for money and great quality.. Not AP Racing, Harrop etc league, but a massive massive step up from the stockies

[Gordo]

Yer I'm not happy with this set up. Would not go down this path again. Got some new inserts tonight, with hydrolic thread locker and some lock tight primer. Will have to drain the hole set up (braded lines) and start again.

[NZeder]

Not bagging his brakes, many have wilwoods and the azc setups and have not had issues. Yes the are great value for $$$ and I have not heard of too many issues with them in the past. AP are just crazy $$ unless you have endless budgets which most of us don't have. I know I live pay packet to pay packet at the moment with everything going up but wages here in NZ. Thats why it is disappointing when your hard earned $$ netts a bad quality part. This might be the one in 10000 or is it one in 1000?

 

Nothing is made like it used to be and maybe that is the issue. We have changed processors and the quality of parts in many things ie TVs look up the Samsung click of death. This issue is caused by a few capacitors that fail. If Samsung had used 10c caps not 2c caps the issue would not exist. But all for the share holder and reducing costs and stock cost they save what is $1 on each TV in hardware cost but factor that over 1 mil units that make the accountant happy and therefore the bottom line for the shareholders.

 

Plus we don't get a TV like we used to get that would last 20 years but 3 or 5 if you are lucky.

 

Anyway back on topic I thing 90% of the track car I see have wilwood brake setups and this is the first I have heard of issues I was mainly pointing out to pzg302 that his disappointment of the dynalites might have been due to the manufacturing process.

[dat2kman]

AP are quite expensive.

I had four calipers recoed, new pistons, seals, also renewed all lines, masters and balance assy on a Historic Sports Sedan. Total cost $3200

It has to be period correct, it ran AP's in the day.

 

I have since found a supplier in Ireland, Murray Motorsport, who can and have supplied me more items for other AP calipers on other cars, at half the price the Aussie distributor wants to charge!

 

The AP bleed nipples are quite large rhread diam compared to Wlwoods, any competent brake recondition shop should be able to supply new nipples, cut the taper seats in the calipers to suit, and use a bottoming tap the cut a straight thread, ie not tapered.

 

I've also used correct thread sized blanking bolts and a ball bearing, to blank off unused bleed or line in ports, ie Volvo four piston Girling calipers, that works well.

[PZG302]

I wasn't bagging the Wilwoods as they are a great product for the price, but the quality of finish can be a let down when you look closely, and there is a reason for this, they aren't nearly as expensive as a lot of the competition.

 

My dynalites were made in the early 90's and came from the back of a NASCAR, so were a pretty good thing in the day, and still are. I would recommend Wilwoods to anyone, but the finish on them can be a bit ordinary, and not what I would put out if I was in that game. Personally I think if it looks right you are halfway to being right so in my line of work a lot of time is spent on getting the image and marketing right to go along with the data I produce at a high quality.

[dat240z]

Yeah fair call.. I got my Wilwoods from Dave at AZC last year and I thought they looked great and the finish and quality were both good. Ohwell, maybe theyve picked up their game since the early 90's, a lot has changed since then. 

[DatZed]

You get what you pay for.

That's why I run Alcons.

[garvice]

Tried thread tape?

[dat2kman]

Tried thread tape?

No dont!

The thread is ok, no need to cut it any more.

It requires a taper cutter, set up in a secure jig, to hold caliper firm, and a set of fresh new bleed nipples.

The taper cutter MUST match the taper in the nipples.

 

It is pissible to run what is called a "Bottoming or Blind" tap into a blind hole but be wary of driving in too hard.

 

( basic engineering stuff !)

[garvice]

Didn't someone mention tapered (pipe) threads? I.e. thread tape to help seat. Or are they straight metric/imperial thread?

[PeterAllen]

You got me thinking about my Wilwoods which have been sitting in a box the the lounge room for four years. I've had a look and notice they have a "Made in USA" sticker but also the bleed nipple sits within an insert, i.e. not directly seating on the casing.

 

Is your setup the same, and if so, which thread is seeping?

 

 

[dat2kman]

Didn't someone mention tapered (pipe) threads? I.e. thread tape to help seat. Or are they straight metric/imperial thread?

They are straight threads, usually in Fine pitch.

It snt the thread that seals, it is the taper seat in the bottom.

The insert under the bleed nipple will be a Helicoil type product, as the ally casting can get eadily ripped out if the brass thread galls.

 

[C.A.R.]

Gordon's was leaking between the caliper & the insert.

Its now fixed with some thread locker.

[PeterAllen]

Gordon's was leaking between the caliper & the insert.

Its now fixed with some thread locker.

 

Thanks Lachlan, he had me sweating there for a while.

[Gordo]

Yer , as Locky says . I ended up using a hydrolic thread locker from lock tight. The brake fluid was leaking through the thread on the large nut (gold color) as in your picture. Then the little bleed insert goes inside that. And even that has to be super tight to seal. But I think I've got it now. Thanks for the help guys.