Author Topic: Tutorial: S1 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.  (Read 13522 times)

Offline Lurch

  • Locky
  • Global Moderator
  • Registered User
  • *****
  • Posts: 3873
  • Location: Victoria
  • Oracle of BS.
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2008, 10:04:43 PM »
Cheers mate,

I'm looking into this because... as you may have seen in my projects page. I did the rear disc conversion, however the kit i used, contained the 85-86 maxima calipers. These are impossible to source parts locally for. All brake components and even the pads need to be ordered from US.

I'm looking into replacing them with 280zx rear calipers. Trying to find out which one uses the 85-86 maxima caliper mounting bracket.

Bit of a lession to be learned for everyone else, eh Fu? :(

I doubt you'll find the 280ZX calipers will fit the Maxima brackets, but you never know...
The brackets I had made up wern't cheap, but Sulio found these Ex US:
http://store.zraceproducts.com/brakes.php

HTH :)

Offline NZeder

  • Registered User
  • *
  • Posts: 1827
  • Location: Auckland, NZ
    • http://nzeder.net
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2008, 03:43:14 AM »
Question is this setup for the S1 or S2 rotors? They are different diameter and offset. The S1 are 269mm x 10mm with a total hat height of 68mm but the S2 are 258mm x 10mm with a hat of 47mm

Cheers
Mike

76 RS30 260z 改RB26 N/A 霞
Previous
70 HS30-00016 240z
72 HS30 240z L型 2.8
71 HS30 240z L型改3.2
79 HS130 280zx
82 HS130 280zx T top
2x 73 KP710 160JSSS
74 KB210 120Y Coupe
71 510 1600 Deluxe

Offline fufu

  • Donating Member
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 423
  • Location: Melbourne
  • NO NO NO!
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2008, 07:51:51 AM »
Bit of a lesson to be learned for everyone else, eh Fu? :(

I doubt you'll find the 280ZX calipers will fit the Maxima brackets, but you never know...
The brackets I had made up weren't cheap, but Sulio found these Ex US:
http://store.zraceproducts.com/brakes.php

HTH :)

Yea, I also ordered the parts it cost 100 bucks including shipping to get the brake guide clips to get sent to me. If you do get a brake conversion kit from US, make sure you don't lose a clip like I did, but all together the benefits of the 280zx caliper is a lot better. You benefit from bigger pistons which if you do the 4 x4 hilux fronts it does seem to balance out the braking power. Don't buy from ebay user "Tinmonk" he literally provides no support for his products (Rear Disc Conversion Kit). Lesson learnt.

Question is this setup for the S1 or S2 rotors? They are different diameter and offset. The S1 are 269mm x 10mm with a total hat height of 68mm but the S2 are 258mm x 10mm with a hat of 47mm

Cheers
Mike

I'll check into that. I have high hopes that... dependent on the rotor size that you mentioned will give me the answer to the caliper that will fit and bolt on. I believe i have the flat type caliper bracket. As the picture that Lurch pointed me too looked a bit high.

This was the kit i bought from Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsun-240Z-260Z-280Z-rear-disc-brake-kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em122QQcategoryZ42614QQihZ008QQitemZ180283592522QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD2V

You can see the bracket doesn't give much height out for the brake caliper. But I'll find out about the rotor size and hopefully that will help or that ebay seller will reply to my 2 dozen emails.

Offline Lurch

  • Locky
  • Global Moderator
  • Registered User
  • *****
  • Posts: 3873
  • Location: Victoria
  • Oracle of BS.
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2008, 08:08:38 AM »
Mike, wasn't aware of any differences between the S1 & S2 setups.
I used the S1 rotors with Robs Alum. brackets & it all bolted up fine.

Offline NZeder

  • Registered User
  • *
  • Posts: 1827
  • Location: Auckland, NZ
    • http://nzeder.net
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2008, 05:33:59 PM »
Mike, wasn't aware of any differences between the S1 & S2 setups.
I used the S1 rotors with Robs Alum. brackets & it all bolted up fine.
Thanks Lurch, I thought they might work with the S1 given the look of the bracket and the offset as I believe the S2 have an almost flat bracket setup. The guys in the US that do the S2 setup use the Maxima brackets which are flat.

76 RS30 260z 改RB26 N/A 霞
Previous
70 HS30-00016 240z
72 HS30 240z L型 2.8
71 HS30 240z L型改3.2
79 HS130 280zx
82 HS130 280zx T top
2x 73 KP710 160JSSS
74 KB210 120Y Coupe
71 510 1600 Deluxe

Offline Lurch

  • Locky
  • Global Moderator
  • Registered User
  • *****
  • Posts: 3873
  • Location: Victoria
  • Oracle of BS.
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2008, 05:57:51 PM »
All very interesting, thanks Mike :)
Fu, you might BE able to fit the S2 280ZX calipers up to your Maxima brackets after all ???

Offline fufu

  • Donating Member
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 423
  • Location: Melbourne
  • NO NO NO!
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2008, 06:17:48 PM »
I hope so, its actually dependent on the brake bracket. I was reading somewhere either S13 caliper or the S2 280zx but not really confirming articles that i've read. More along the lines of... it could or it should. But nothing hard evidence.

wish my luck i will find out shortly.

I also had the clips ordered and a spare set of brake pads as well. It's not all that bad i guess. To get the brake pads it would cost me about 60 AUD to get sent to my door. It's just the wait time of not being able to have things available to me that worries me about this conversion.

Anyways i hope my misfortune guides others on what to do or what not to do.


Offline woza01

  • Registered User
  • *
  • Posts: 97
  • Location: Mandurah, Western Australia
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2008, 09:40:08 PM »
Hi All...

just to add my two cents worth. I did the conversion using the Genuine Nissan Maxima Brackets (Nissan Part # 44155-04S10). 280ZX calipers and Discs go right on, but I cant quite remember if they are teh early or late calipers....but have a look at the attached pics of my old setup before I sold them to 'Mayhem' and you will be able to identify them, because the other type are totally different.

Hope this helps
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 09:43:22 PM by woza01 »
Current Rides : 2000 VT LS1 Berlina (Everyday), 1976 260Z RB25DET, 1996 R33 GT-R V-Spec, 1980 Mk2 2DR RS2000 YB Cosworth (Current Project)

Offline Toecutter

  • Sulio
  • Global Moderator
  • Registered User
  • *****
  • Posts: 2272
  • Location: Kensington, Victoria
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2008, 10:49:38 PM »
I have this same bracket. Hoping to go out and source calipers in the next couple of weeks. How much did the discs set you back, they look new?

Can anybody ID these calipers to be series 1 or 2?

Sulio

Offline NZeder

  • Registered User
  • *
  • Posts: 1827
  • Location: Auckland, NZ
    • http://nzeder.net
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2008, 04:15:04 AM »
Can anybody ID these calipers to be series 1 or 2?

Sulio
If you are talking about the pic above - it is hard from that angle the difference in rotor size is hard to pic (269mm vs 258mm approx 10mm) the easiest way to tell is from the side. The S1 with the 68mm hat will be very close to the strut and the S2 with the 47mm hat will be almost 20mm away (near the bottom of the strut that is)

I have a done a lot of research into the rear brake conversion on a 240z/260z and have been working through a vented conversion that will have a little drum inside for the hand/park brake so I can run a 4 pot on the rear. I have got it down to 3 possible rotor choices but I am waiting for technical drawings of the rotors to work out which one will work best. Once I have this down I will post a thread on my conversion (I do have a conversion that works currently but the rotor is very large and 4 pot I have is causing issues with my RS Watanabes so I am now back to square one - this can be fixed by purchasing some Wilwood powerlite calipers but these are not designed for the size rotor I have on this current conversion...ahhh....)

76 RS30 260z 改RB26 N/A 霞
Previous
70 HS30-00016 240z
72 HS30 240z L型 2.8
71 HS30 240z L型改3.2
79 HS130 280zx
82 HS130 280zx T top
2x 73 KP710 160JSSS
74 KB210 120Y Coupe
71 510 1600 Deluxe

Offline woza01

  • Registered User
  • *
  • Posts: 97
  • Location: Mandurah, Western Australia
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2008, 05:26:11 AM »
Toecutter....

send member 'Mayhem' an email asking him to measure the discs he bought off me - I bought them brand new from MSA in America - including freight it was still cheaper than buying them here !. Once you know the disk size, you will then know if its S1 or S2 and the Calipers are also from the same Series....I used to have this info recorded somewhere but cant for the life of me find it. I am pretty sure that its the S2 stuff, but cant be sure enough to tell you with any degree of certainty. You can also just buy the whole kit at once from MSA ! check out their website.

Nzeder....youre looking at a rear disc conversion......have you looked at the pics and thread of mine about the Arizona Z Car conversion with my Added Mechanical Spot caliper for a handbrake ?
Current Rides : 2000 VT LS1 Berlina (Everyday), 1976 260Z RB25DET, 1996 R33 GT-R V-Spec, 1980 Mk2 2DR RS2000 YB Cosworth (Current Project)

Offline fufu

  • Donating Member
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 423
  • Location: Melbourne
  • NO NO NO!
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2008, 07:29:33 AM »
I'm fairly sure the kit from MSA is the maxima caliper rear disc conversion. Beware. You could end up like me if you purchase those.

I'm certain what i bought was a Stage 2 rear conversion kit which MSA sells.

Offline NZeder

  • Registered User
  • *
  • Posts: 1827
  • Location: Auckland, NZ
    • http://nzeder.net
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2008, 09:05:37 AM »
Nzeder....youre looking at a rear disc conversion......have you looked at the pics and thread of mine about the Arizona Z Car conversion with my Added Mechanical Spot caliper for a handbrake ?

Yes I have seen that - I have some Porsche Boxster mono block calipers that I got for the right price so I am using these. The rear is designed for a 20mm vented rotor that is 290mm in size. I am going to use a Z32 300zx rear rotor which is 297mm x 18mm thick with a hat of 63mm. These have an internal drum ID of 172mm. So now I am just looking into a simple backing plate mod using a common Commodore backing plate. However their internal drum is 160mm so I will be looking at getting some new linings added that will take the ID out to the 172mm ie some extra 6mm of brake material on each shoe. I was looking into the VP-VQ IRS senator rear rotor as these have the 160mm drum and the following rotor spec. 280mm x 20mm with hat of 67mm but the centre hole is 70mm and PDC is 5x 120mm via the 240z of 68mm and 4x 114.3mm. The only thing that has put me off these rear rotors is that they are not that common = limited suppliers. With the Z32 rotor there are number of rotor suppliers as these are also the same rotors used on some of the Skylines (R32, R33 and R34) and other than the mod to the shoes you can order the rotors in 4x114.3 from some suppliers = no mods to the rotor.

Sorry for the slight high jack this is why I have been looking into other rear conversion to see what size hat is used on these conversion so I know what alternative rotors I could use. The 280zx S1 conversion uses a 68mm hat and this is the biggest you can go without doing other mods. So this lead me to the VP-VQ HSV IRS rear rotor and also a Subaru rear rotor which is 290x18 with 67.5 hat. The issue with the Subaru rotor is the shape around the stud axles as the Subaru has a 5x100mm PDC their rotor has a stepped design. The smallest part of the step is 129mm = no way will a 240z stub fit in here ever. So a spacer between the rotor and stub would be required. The Subaru uses a 170mm internal drum. The issue with using the Z32 shoes is their height they fowl on the back of the 240z stub so this is why I am looking at the Commodore VN/VP internal drum as they have a much lower profile. The other setup I have that does work is a 190mm internal drum as used on the new Commodores and most Falcons since the EL range - however these have a much smaller hat and this setup does not work with the Porsche monobloc calipers that I have. I could just get some different calipers but my pedal box that I have with the master cylinder has be calculated with the piston sizing for the Porshce calipers so I would be up for new calipers and master cyclinders vs a mod to the shoes.

So this is a lot of stuffing around but once I have the solution down I will be set with rear disc conversion that is using a caliper with dust seals (not a legal requirement here in NZ but I live in the country on a non sealed road = lost of dust) and an internal drum for the park/hand brake.

And with all this stuffing around etc it would have been easier to just purchase a vented kit like this
http://silverminemotors.com/product.sc?categoryId=2&productId=38 before I got the Porsche calipers and master cylinder setup.

So back on topic now guys - sorry. For a straight disc to drum conversion either of the S1 or S2 280zx conversion is a good way to go. If you want to upgrade the front brakes then you should consider a larger rear piston setup to put the bias back in a good range again. A friend here in NZ with this race car had the MM conversion on the rear ie Z31 rear rotor (290mm x 10mm with 47mm hat) and the S31 caliper. But when he upgraded his fronts from Z31/Toyota 4x4 to a 12.2 x 1.25 (310mm x 32mm) with a large 4 pot we worked out the back was only every going to via 10% max. So he modified the MM brackets (cut the ears down and redrilled lower) the install Z32 rear rotors and calipers (the MM bracket had the correct offset already...bonus) the installed a hydraulic handbrake. So I am now heading in the same path as my friend but as my car will see more of the street I am not going for a hydraulic handbrake hence all must work to get an internal drum setup to go with my 4 pots on the rear.

There I go again off topic (sort of still talking about rear brakes just not the 280zx conversion now)

So my views

280zx rear conversion = good for drum replacement for like performance.
Consider something else if you will be running anything larger than the common Toy 4x4 front conversion.

76 RS30 260z 改RB26 N/A 霞
Previous
70 HS30-00016 240z
72 HS30 240z L型 2.8
71 HS30 240z L型改3.2
79 HS130 280zx
82 HS130 280zx T top
2x 73 KP710 160JSSS
74 KB210 120Y Coupe
71 510 1600 Deluxe

Offline Toecutter

  • Sulio
  • Global Moderator
  • Registered User
  • *****
  • Posts: 2272
  • Location: Kensington, Victoria
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2008, 06:08:33 PM »
Quote
Toecutter....

send member 'Mayhem' an email asking him to measure the discs he bought off me - I bought them brand new from MSA in America - including freight it was still cheaper than buying them here !. Once you know the disk size, you will then know if its S1 or S2 and the Calipers are also from the same Series....I used to have this info recorded somewhere but cant for the life of me find it. I am pretty sure that its the S2 stuff, but cant be sure enough to tell you with any degree of certainty. You can also just buy the whole kit at once from MSA ! check out their website.

Thanks,

I'll get in touch with Mayhem.

Sulio

Offline Toecutter

  • Sulio
  • Global Moderator
  • Registered User
  • *****
  • Posts: 2272
  • Location: Kensington, Victoria
Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2008, 08:10:00 PM »
Hi Guys,

An update on which Maxima brackets SHOULD'NT be bought for the 280zx rear disc conversion. There is a fella selling the 86-88 Maxima bracket which is flat and has a smaller diameter bore (ie 70mm vs the 84ish mm it should be) this caliper does not work without a ridiculous amount of work. The offset of the caliper is also wrong. E-bay seller link below.

The correct Maxima bracket is the 84-86 from memory but there is an obvious difference as per pics below:

This is the WRONG one, (86-88).


...and this below is correct I believe, you see that it is offset.


http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=139445&highlight=maxima+brackets

...and this is the guy selling the 86-88 brackets that I bought and should not have. I WOULD NOT BUY THESE (IF I HAD OF KNOWN!).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsun-240z-260z-280z-rear-disc-conversion-brackets_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34199QQihZ003QQitemZ130271445696QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Sulio

Auszcar 240z, 260z, 280zx Forums

Re: Tutorial: 280ZX Rear Disc Brake Conversion for 240/260Z.
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2008, 08:10:00 PM »