Engineers certificate question

[saxon]

Hi guys,

 

I have come to an agreement with a nice gent to buy his car. It has had a v8 engine swap, but he said that he doesn't have an engineers certificate. He said the numbers match on the engine and Vehicle Identification Number on the rego. He recently got it rego'd, and he said if it was illegal he wouldn't have been able to get it rego'd.

 

However, I have read that an engineers certificate is required to be carried on board for all major modifications.

 

So what is true? Does this need an engineers certificate or not?

 

Thanks!

[Patch]

You will probably find it was already had rego and he has done the swap and just put on the forms the engine number and maybe the cc, as it was already rego didn't go over the pits, and the dumb bird at the rego office did not know that 5000 cc is a V8, so they would have no knowledge it has been changed to a V8. Now if you buy it some one will have to get a road worthy, and unless it is done underhanded and the Guy giving the road worthy is prepared to loose everything you will not be able to get a road worthy. If it is sold no rego then it will have to go under the pits, no hope at all with out the mod plate.

If he has done what I think , you will probably find nothing has been done to any standard and you will have trouble getting an engineer to sign off on it.Could end up a very expensive exercise resulting in the car only good for parts.

Sounds like it is the yellow and black one in Sydney cars sales.??

 

To get it rego in any state it will need to compliance with a a mod plate.

We could get away with this in New Zealand but not Australia

[saxon]

You will probably find it was already had rego and he has done the swap and just put on the forms the engine number and maybe the cc, as it was already rego didn't go over the pits, and the dumb bird at the rego office did not know that 5000 cc is a V8, so they would have no knowledge it has been changed to a V8. Now if you buy it some one will have to get a road worthy, and unless it is done underhanded and the Guy giving the road worthy is prepared to loose everything you will not be able to get a road worthy. If it is sold no rego then it will have to go under the pits, no hope at all with out the mod plate.

If he has done what I think , you will probably find nothing has been done to any standard and you will have trouble getting an engineer to sign off on it.Could end up a very expensive exercise resulting in the car only good for parts.

Sounds like it is the yellow and black one in Sydney cars sales.??

 

To get it rego in any state it will need to compliance with a a mod plate.

We could get away with this in New Zealand but not Australia

 

:s Nah it's not the yellow and black one. He said it will be sold to me including a RWC. So you are saying he won't be able to legaly get it Road Worthy'd without an engineers certificate? And if he does get one from a dodgy person, if some time down the track I get defected, I'm gonna have to get it engineered... which could end up being very expensive?

[Patch]

With the rules in Qld if you get a doggy road worthy and take the car to another place for a road worthy and it is shown that it is a doggy you can go them for the costs to make it road worthy, or he can loose his license and that is his cost for doing it, I can get roadworthy for my self  but he only does them if he knows who is buying the car and it is not for sale to other unknown.

 

If the car is rego and he supplies the road worth worthy you will be fine until you need to get one to sell the car, or they change the rules,

 

I am not 100% sure on all the rules though out Australia but in Qlds if you got pulled up by the cops for a rego check you would have to show your mod plate, if you have not got one you will be given a red sticker and will have to tow your car home and off the road until you get your mod plate, only way to get that is an engineers approval of the mods and correct paper work submitted.

 

A lot would depend on the buying price of the car and what motor is in it, what diff has it got in it, will it scream doing 100ks and have a top speed of 140ks and do 3 mile to the gallon , or has it been set up right with correct running gear.

[saxon]

looks like i'm looking for a car again.

[Jimbo]

G,day Saxon,  If i was you I would ring up Vic Roads & get their ruling & maybe ask them to email their reply to you. That way if it's in your favour ,then you have the evidence to show anyone that queries it.  Jim

[saxon]

Well, also, when making an offer for the car, I have factored in the price of a professional engine swap including engineering, which is a lot more expensive than a back yard job that I could do myself. So I doubt the deal will go through unfortunately.

[.]

looks like i'm looking for a car again.

 

Mate, don't be scared off. If you like the car just get it done. Take it to an engineer and get the mod plates. then you never need to worry again. Why does he think it will be expensive? Depending on the number of mods you should only be up for a few hundred to the engineer.....unless he is expecting the engineer to insist on further mods before it is compliant.

[Patch]

Just confirming what I have been told by son in law who does the mod plates here, Qld has had mod plates 10-15 years nsw and Vic had Engineers cert approval , about 1.5 years ago a national Mod plate  system has been bought in and what I said is correct if you drove up here with no mod plate you will be defected.

He was saying depending on engine size he does the inspection and issues the plate which is not that expensive  if every thing has been done to a road worthy standard, over a certain engine size it needs engineering before he can give a mod plate.

He just runs a normal workshop who does road worthy with mod plate approvals.

[saxon]

SORRY GUYS!!!

 

It seems there has been a miscommunication. He is now saying the engine was engineered but he just doesn't have the paperwork any more.

 

Sorry, but when he said "I don't have an engineers certificate" I just assumed he never got it done in the first place.

 

Thanks again for everyone's wise words.

 

Cheers

[PeterAllen]

Don't take anything any seller tells you at face value. Contact VICROADS and give them the details you have and see if it matches their records. Big engines require big brakes - has he mentioned whether the brakes are also approved?

 

Do your homework. If the details (e.g. engine capacity, etc) don't match with VICROADS then ask an Approving Engineer to inspect it for you.

 

Good luck... I'm not trying to put you off, I just don't want to see you buy a lemon.

[zeds4ever]

You blokes are pretty lucky sth of the border if it only costs a cple of hndrd dlrs for Engnrs crtfcte. Last quote I got up here in NSW bout 3 months back was 600 bucks all in.

 

                                                          Regards: Alan. 

[saxon]

Yeah, he has contacted Vicroads for me. Apparently they keep all the engineers certificates on a database, so he has requested they retrieve it for him. Can take up to 5 days. Am awaiting that to proceed. It has all been a bit iffy though cause I asked if anything else was modded like brakes and suspension but he said no.

[620Z]

It's simple look at the rego papers. It will either say 6 or 8 cylinders. If it says 8 then you don't have a problem. Get him to get the RWC and but the car. Job done.

My car has an 8 in it. It's been defected for other things. they have never asked to look at the engineers certificate at Vic roads.

You will be right.

[fufu]

Oh so this is the white 260Z 2 seater V8. I only heard from my friend today, that he was selling it and then it clicked.

[dazzed]

The vehicle without a doubt would have had a eng cert at one stage otherwise it would never have been reregisterd as the number of cylinders and engine capacity sections on the form would not correspond, the eng cert document serial number will be logged with vic roads with this vehicle you could probably copy it for your own records , unfortunately it sounds as if over time it has just been misplaced, records dont get thrown in the bin they will be recorded both by the engineer and state roads authorities, just need to trace it back , Daz.

[620Z]

Totally agree Daniel. 

[saxon]

Yup cheers guys, I'm pretty confident with it all now, I just misunderstood what he meant when he said no engineers certificate, thought he meant he never had it, but he clarified that he mean't that he had it but has just lost it. ALL IS GOOD!

[620Z]

If you buy it still try and get a copy of the Engineers report. It might come in handy one day. Better to run around now rather than 5 years later when the trail to follow up is dead.

I did get a RWC one time and the bloke wanted to see a copy of it. Was no problem he just wanted to see the paperwork.

[dazzed]

Totally agree Daniel. 

Thanks Craig, look ,even if it didnt have a eng cert, obtaining a current cert would still make a viable aquisition and that would only require a inspection and if it required changes , big deal .

[saxon]

okay here is the latest twist.

 

I organised for an inspection and rwc, which I paid for. After it I called the seller and he said it was all fine, theres a couple of things that need fixing and he'll take care of it.

 

Today I called the inspector. He said that the seller told him that it was engineered in nsw, but has never been engineered in vic. He called vicroads and it hasnt been engineered. it hasnt had anything it would require to obtain that certificate (suspension, brakes, body strengthening). He would never pass it for a rwc, and he would only pay 5k for it.

 

The seller blatantly lied about the eng certificate situation. I would recommend extreme caution when dealing with this seller!

[neRok]

i dunno why those 'upgrades' are so important. i read a builup on a guy putting a windsor v8 in his 240z and the car ended up lighter. im sure a chev or holden would only make it a little heavier. but regardless, the weight difference will be less than having a mate in the passenger seat. and these cars are already disc front. look at HQ kingswoods, they came with 350 chev and had disc front too. seems plenty fine to me.

 

over here in wa i bought an old patrol, it says 8cyl and had the engine number matches and that is good enough. someone mentioned you could just send the form in with the v8 engine number and hope for the best, but i think they are smarter than that. i had to change the engine number in my vn v8, sent in the form and they told me the new engine wasnt from my model of car. thats because it was a vl v8 that had been rebuilt. they picked that up, im sure they would pick up someone trying to slip in a 6 to 8 upgrade lol.

[saxon]

Yeah, its possible that an eng might pass it if you find the right one. But the rwc mechanic said he called vicroads and they said there was no eng certificate. He also said he would never pass it for a rwc. I told the guy no eng certificate, no deal. And then he said yeah I got one, I just lost it, it's all fine. Blatant Lie. I paid for the rwc so that's a waste of my money cause he wasn't up front so I'm pretty pissed off.

 

[chris240]

walk away.

buy a zed with a legal & registerable L-series 6 cylinder. my 5 cents.

[Patch]

In NZ we were free to do any v8 mods, only had to take the car for a road worthy every 6 months, and basically as long as you had guards over the tires and blinkers and lights worked all was fine, We stuck V8s into all soughs of cars, a big one done a lot was the Morris Minor sleeper and if it had not been done before, well somebody would do it, even to the point of being the first to stick a big block into a mini, problems started to show and I have seen a mk3 Cortina with a 350 chev tearing the body apart,

 

Okay I read the same story with that 289 Z, but bear in mind it may have been same weight but you have doubled the HP and tork. Personally all should be engineered inspection and approved , with beefed up suppression brakes and Diff and some sought of chassis mod. I personally stuck a 283 in my daily ride MK 3 Zephyr, blew the 6 and started Friday and drove out Sunday ready for work with the V8 in it, nothing done other than the engine swap, I could not afford to keep the petrol up to it, with not changing the diff it just screamed and lost the top speed of the car, Quick up to 90mph but that was all it would do.

 

Not sure if they are still aloud to do it, I think the laws changed as people were killing them selfs.