Is it true what they say about electricity prices?

[Scottz]

I currently pay 26.730 cents per kWh for electricity.

My consumption is 1903 kWh (plus/minus) for Sept, Oct, Nov quarter. My statement says this is about normal consumption for a household with 4 occupants.

In big red font on the front page of my recent bill is printed..."Qld Competition Authority estimates the Federal carbon tax blah blah....add $259 a year to a typical 6.3MWh bill".

I guess they mean 6.3MWh per year. So my 1.903 x 4 = 7.612MWh which is apparently 21% higher than the average yearly bill.

Although I have an energy efficient house, I do not get mains supply water pressure. I receive water from the water authority and store it in tanks, plus harvest rain water. Every time I use water the booster pump delivers water from the storage tanks to the house. So my biggest electricity usage is pumping water. I also recycle all waste water with a grey water system. This also consumes electricity which most households would not.

I hear that Qld has one of the lowest costs per kWh in the country, and this is the argument used by those who want to increase the tariff, but my thinking is the other states are being ripped off more than Qld. We don't need to match them.

If we have so much coal, why do we pay so much for electricity?

When I was in China, I paid 150 Yuan per month for electricity, for a 2 bedroom apartment with 2 occupants. That's about $25/month. And that was during winter with -20 deg C during the night. From 6pm to 6am the reverse cycle heater stayed on all night. During the day the central heating (circulated heated water) was enough to stop the apartment freezing but at night we turned on the reverse cycle as well. Hot water and cooking was gas. Here in Qld I have Solarhart hot water and gas cooking and I do not need any central heating or reverse cycle heater. My electricity consumption in China was far more than here, but cost was about 6 cents per kWh. Why am I paying 26.73 cents here? No wonder it's cheaper to make a car, train, washing machine or what-ever in China. And China burns our coal, go figure !

 

It's not just the carbon tax, it's the darn ripoff price we pay that is killing off our manufacturing industries and hurting households.

What do you pay for electricity?

 

[George]

2 adults, hot water heater, no gas - $250 per quarter.

[NZeder]

You should live here in NZ - invoices once a month, no gas, or water (tank water = pumps to run), have 2 adults and 4 kids in our house, then granny flat has 2 adults cost ....are you ozzies sitting down and remember most of our power in this country is from Water/Hydro/Wind (no nukes here baby)

 

We also have wet back fireplaces in both house/granny flat and we have solar hot water too and energy efficient house so we can't do much more pumping water uses most of our electricity

 

$$$$$$$$$ 450-500 a month :'( ok that is NZD funny money but a truck load and here in NZ it has gone up 9% every year for the last 5 years - I wish wages would go up 1/2 that let alone 9% Our MP's got in stating they would work on close the gap to AU (as far as cost of living and wages go) that gap has only got bigger.

 

As a result we are installing solar panels on the roof of the granny flat (22 of them) so we can generate our own - the supplier we have will give us 1 for 1 credit when going back into the grid so we should see our bill drop by a lot once that is in - if they price keeps going up we will install more panels and batteries in the Zed shed and go off grid.

[dat2kman]

Yes, and did you see how disgustingly filthy the air in China is, and the wide use of breathing masks!

Coal fired, huge demand, very cold, all contributes to the crap air quality.

 

I too am in Qld, run tank water only, no council water, five tanks, ( for fire fighting) a large pool, three adults, a readonable efficient house, except for the LV Halogen lights! Roof mounted solar hot water, 400 litre tank.

The pool and SHW is on cheaper tariff 33, rest is on std tariff 11

 

Our bill per qtr tells us we used approx 2000 kwh, , but the 5kw grid connect solar cells on the roof, send back enough, that we get a cheque each qtr, from $90 to $200, depending on season.

Before last round of price rises, cheques were $140 - 300 per qtr.

 

More rises to come in 2014

 

Are we bad for relieving the demand on the grid, due to the solar system?

In last two years the solar system qtly rebates have been cut, many now still get a bill to pay.

[NZeder]

ok just checked what we get changed here in NZ 22.49 cents per kWh (but as we are high user we get the cheapest rate - standard rate is 26kWh) we just use a truck load 1749kWh last month (just one month not a quarter like you guys)

 

If we did not have solar hot water (for summer) and wet back (for winter) our bill would be much larger as this is 50% saving on the normal usage - I know we tested it when we build the house - 26 units a day with solar hot water not heating and just using electricity and 13 units when using solar for water heating.

 

Last month was $450ish

[HKSZ]

They're all having a last dig before the Carbon Tax goes.

I have had letters from all my utilities this month

Gas services up $60yr, Elec services up $70yr, Water services up 100% $120yr now I pay $1100 before I use any water

 

This is on top of the unit price rises.

[lightmaster240z]

Power bill for last month $1237.00 @34.5 c per kw I hope it go's down soon.  I must turn off a couple of light Any one want to swap power bills

[Scottz]

Yes Jason,

I did see how disgustingly filthy the air in China is, and the wide use of breathing masks! And imagine this - Gladstone is worse than Fushun.

Fushun has the world's largest open pit coal mine and is the worlds largest producer of shale oil. It is a major industrial center, and I was surprised how clean it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fushun

About 2 million people in Fushun and just 45 minutes drive away is Shenyang with 12 million people. Imagine half the population of Australia living in an area from Brisbane to Southport.

[Scottz]

Forgot to mention, that photo was taken from the ATP shale oil plant, right next door to the coal mine and shale mine, looking out over the polyolefin and polypropylene plant.

Very dirty stinky place.

[Zedman240®]

Don't forget in China there's over  1 billion people all paying their electricity bills, compared to a tiny 25 odd million here.

[tir33d]

My brother works at a gas fired power plant. In one day alone a couple of years back, they turned on their four generators at 160mw each, and made $10,000,000 in one day.

The plant was built for $650,000,000 but sold before completion to _____ for $800 mil.

His is on demand, when demand rises, prices rise. On average the market keep a mw around $15-$20. In high times, (40' for 5 days straight) that price can rise to a government capped $10,000 per mw.

When the government owned the power plants, we had the power. Now we have nothing.

And while im at it, someone put a sock in the greenies mouths, all this coal, which we will happily sell to someone else to burn, but we won't build any more coal plants for ourselves, we won't build nuclear, but once again we supply the world with the resource.

Government should announce its back in the power game, build some plants, and go on the open market with the rest, at least then the government would make money out of something.

[Scottz]

Got to agree with you mate.

As the producer of the resource we pay the carbon tax, but we sell it to others who burn it / use it in countries where there are nil or less regulations for allowable emissions.

They produce cheap power for their citizens, who then manufacture products that undercut our products and we bitch about it. Having made the rope to hang our own necks we cry foul ! Go figure.

In our desire to make our backyard cleaner, we have a made a toilet of someone else's. On a global scale we have gone backwards. I say better to use it here where we have strong regulations and controls.

 

 

[620Z]

I agree boys. The Government is a joke. Carbon Tax for us but sell it all over seas so everyone else has cheap power while producing mega Carbon more than us. The not have no Carbon tax for aussies but add it to the price of coal sold to others over seas. Ohhh then they might get priced out of the market. That's OK let's just rip off the dumb ass aussies instead. But don't get me stated.

[neRok]

To put it in perspective, even though Australia is only the 52nd most populated country in the world, we are the 14th biggest emitter of carbon polution. Per capita, we pump out a hell of a lot.

 

People love to say that the carbon tax doesn't work, it wont reduce Australia's emissions, and even if it does, other countries are still pumping out a heap more. The numbers came in the other day, and we have had actually had a 0.1% reduction. -0.1% doesn't sound like much, but when you consider it was predicted to increase 1.2%, the effect it has had becomes more apparent.

 

With regards to China etc reducing their emissions, there are reports that China are planning to introduce a carbon price scheme based on what we have done in Australia. Can you imagine if they have a >1% reduction, that would be a huge improvement. I believe that was a good point of our carbon pricing policy(s), we have lead by example. China have also already introduced policy that puts a total cap on their carbon emissions, and they will be putting a cap on the amount of coal they import because they will be moving away from dirty power production.

 

Carbon pricing also pushes efficiency, which will need to be delivered by new technologies. This is what Australia should be doing, inventing things and creating new technologies that we can export to the rest of the world, like we have done many times before. Instead, Australia votes in the Abbott government, who feel we don't need a Science Minister

 

And pillar #1 for the economy, boost manufacture, what a joke.

 

PS- I use 8 units of electricity per day. It was ~11 when I had 4 other people living with me. You blokes are doing it wrong 

[Scottz]

Glad to see some input coming on this subject.

 

Lead was removed from petrol and paint without a tax.

DDT was removed without a tax.

Asbestos was removed without a tax.

Exhaust emissions were "cleaned" without a tax. (Low sulphur fuel, NOX and SOX regulations).

Carbon tax does not clean anything. It say's you can produce carbon so long as you can pay the bill. Some are paying the bill and others are shutting up shop. If we keep shutting down our manufacturers I am sure emissions will go lower. Much lower than the 0.1% reduction so far !

 

New technology is delivered by industry all the time, and often with government partnership (EG: zero lead in fuel) and without tax. Government sets the act and regulations for new standards (or improvements) in consultation with industry experts and advisers. Industry is given time to change and conform (EG: Occupational Workplace Health and Safety Act and Regulations). We all play our part to make it work and no tax required.

 

I was travelling from Johannesburg to Sydney one day and the young lady in the seat next to mine was so proud to tell me she had just finished an important assignment in South Africa. I asked what she did for a living and who did she work for. She replied that she worked for Anglo Coal in sustainability. Silly me, I thought sustainability was about risk management. Financial and asset risk management that is. But no - it is about the environment and she gave me a very good lecture on it making sure to show just what a dummy I must be. She then went further to tell me that Anglo Coal always fly's green, and you (me) can do it easily when booking your tickets. Just tick the box for "fly green" and get ripped off another $40 dollars or so. I replied, "sorry, no I do not fly green" and then asked her which of the 4 Boeing engines she was using today, because mine all burn A1 aviation gasoline.

[neRok]

Big mining/oil/gas companies are all pro-environment when there is lots of profit/money/jobs floating around. Barely hear a whisper about it in the office at the moment When the belts get tightened and budgets squeezed, the environment seems to be first out the door.

 

A carbon price pushes efficiency. Consider the 2 scenarios.

1) No carbon tax. Company X pumps out as much as it wants, say 100 carbons. Company Y starts producing too, they pump out 30 carbons.

2) Carbon tax. Company X is paying for its 100 carbons. It wants to increase profit, so it increases its efficiency, drops its carbon output to 80. There is now 20 extra carbons on the market, so company Y buys it and starts producing. Company Y has also become more efficient, so it doesn't need 30 anymore (like in example 1).

 

So now there is 2 companies producing the same amount of 'product', yet there is far less carbon pollution as a result.

 

EDIT: Good read: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comment/greg-hunts-claim-on-carbon-figures-little-more-than-hot-air-20131213-2zc6q.html

[Scottz]

Errrr....run that by me again......

 

Try expanding the logic for dummies like me. Use small words and simple sentences.

 

[Rat1314]

If there wasn't so much scaremongering going on over nuclear energy we wouldn't have this problem, with modern technology and thorium used the risks and pollution is absolute minimal and it's a lot cheaper. Also if the government wanted to reduce emissions it should just put restrictions in place instead of a 'carbon tax'. Seriously, they said that the 'big polluters' would be the one paying the bill but what do you think ANY company will do when it has extra costs, they pass those costs onto the consumer leaving us paying the bill in the end.

[neRok]

@Scottz, I was just trying to illustrate that a carbon price scheme means for the same amount of carbon output, you get more product/services, or for the same amount of product/services, there is less carbon output.

 

@Rat1314, the cost/burden if everyone's to share. Companies are making products/services for things you/society wants.

[AussieZed]

The problem with the carbon tax was too much pandering to big companies (putting the burden on others). The inefficiency of Australian companies and individuals is amazing... look at all the huge air conditioning units in any new subdivision for example, or building energy hungry desal plants instead of improving water efficiency.

 

The real crime is the current governments new carbon policy which will have an economic cost AND have no effect on carbon emissions. The worst of both worlds.

[Scottz]

A few years have rolled bye and it's worth catching up with those that contributed to the discussion previously to see how things have changed for them.

Recently in Qld we had an increase in electricity prices. I now pay 30.227 cents per kWh. My consumption is down to 1017 kW per quarter and I have 7.5kW PV solar installed.

My quarterly bill is about $310, and since we are coming up to state elections, the current government is attempting to buying votes by handing out electricity rebates. I got $137.50 rebate so my total for the quarter is $177. I wish the tariff were cheaper rather than the hand-out, or simply remove the flat rate service fee (which is actually an access fee). BTW my consumption is less than my solar export, but I only get 13.441 cents per kWh for solar export. I did not get the golden handshake deal that was on offer pre 2010. And we only have 1 provider here in regional Qld, so I can't shop around with other providers to get a better deal, it's Ergon or no-one!

I'm interested to know if others have also dropped consumption and or installed solar and what $$ you are getting for solar export. Also have any pre-2010 solar owners hit the sunset dates and lost their solar deals, and now receiving a lot less for their solar export.

As for the previous remarks about carbon tax....well.....just look back on time and also look towards the future. New topics coming up: NVES https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure-transport-vehicles/vehicles/new-vehicle-efficiency-standard

Queensland Written-off Vehicle Scheme Reform Consultation Paper.

Enjoy the reading !!

Edited July 6, 2024 by Scottz
improve accuracy of content