HS30-H

Gavin, I'm not going to beat about the bush here - the production 'data' in that 280ZX book (the title says it all, actually) is a load of old bollocks. It's not fit for use. And WTF does "others" mean? Where's Japan FFS...? It's a nice coffee table book with pretty pictures, but it's more useful as a doorstop than as a reference point. Or maybe useful for throwing at people who think the term 'Datsun 240Z' covers all S30-series production for the 1969 through 1973 period....

Most 432s and 432Rs used the FS5C71-A transmission, but with a specific bellhousing to suit the S20 engine. A few 'Kouki'/late model 432s used FS5C71-B transmissions, again with a bellhousing/front case to suit the S20. The FS5C71-A was stock equipment on HS30-001503.

Not *original* because it was re-bodied into a standard road car 'shell some time ago. Note the (standard) R/H handbrake lever position. On the original Works LHD 'shell it was on the LEFT hand side of the tunnel. Edited to add: Probably best described as some ex-Works parts attached to a modified standard road car with the identity of a Works car.

Gav, Note that the very bottom photo above is actually 'TKS 33 SU 4079', one of the works '73 RAC Rally cars, as mentioned in my previous post still extant and belonging to the Hicks family here in the UK. Not the same car as '7922', which Shekhar totalled on the '73 Moroccan Rally...

For me it's as much about the format as anything else. It just seems like it's not supposed to nurture conversations or group discussions, and it's more like a load of people talking over each other or drowning out the key point. Maybe I'm too old fashioned to adapt or something? The owner of that particular 432-R is extremely shy of the limelight. He actually owns two of them (only beaten by the other guy who has three...) but last time I saw him he denied it all. Probably quite sensible.

Just to add, I wouldn't bother with Facebook on this one. Signal to noise ratio is not the best.

Gav, That is - I believe - production date-related rather than model variant-related or chassis prefix-related. Early cars (meaning proper *early* production) didn't get the doubler plate on the mini bulkhead behind the seats and butting up to the trans tunnel. It's a notoriously weak area on the bodyshell and that big seam around the rearmost part of the tunnel (the one with all the Dum-Dum on it...) was prone to stress cracking in extreme cases. I think the doubler was added in part to address this, but never really fixed it 100%. This is a perfect topic on which to poll the guys over at classiczcars.com who own proper early production cars. I don't think I've ever seen a definitive answer on the changeover date question, but I believe it may well have been late 1969 or very early 1970. You might like to start a thread over there to get their views. Here's an example of an early 1970 production date car (actually a 432-R bodyshell) with the 'doubler plate' added, for reference:

No, I think you are confusing the cars again: 'HS30-01914' / 'LAL 909K' was always 'HS30-01914' / 'LAL 909K'. It had/has nothing to do with 'HS30-00026'.

There's no "technically" about it, Gavin. It simply isn't the same car. Hugely long story, but suffice to say that the current car and the original works car both had their own independent holes in space and time, but never 'became one'.

Thanks Gordon, That's actually the e-mail address I used twice (I'm sure Lurch will have formatted it the way he did in order to mitigate against web-trawling robots seeing it and using it for who knows what) so I don't know why you're not receiving? Please don't go to the trouble of bringing books on long-haul flights. Travelling by air these days is hard enough without adding extra weight. I'm more than happy to pay for the full cost of international postage, so if you can tell me how much to pay I'll do it straight away. Many thanks, Alan T.

Don't look at me! I'm down the other end of the market...

It's a complete, rebuilt engine so you can expect it to get bid to at least double what it's already been bid up to (2.5 million JPY). They are changing hands for such prices because some people who own S20-powered cars are now busy snapping up engines and engine parts as 'insurance' spares.

That's the e-mail address I sent it to. Not much to get wrong there.

That's very kind and much appreciated, but I can't do anything if nobody is willing to answer my e-mails.

I sent a request to order this book two weeks ago, but no reply to my e-mail. Perhaps not wiling to deal with international postage?

And yet we use petrol in our cars, which is a hell of a lot more volatile than Magnesium... Yes, Mg wheels need some special care and treatment, but let's not exaggerate. The Kobe Seiko wheels were made from a Magnesium alloy closely resembling 'Elektron' Magnesium (look it up) and this is far more resistant to corrosion and porosity than purer Mg alloys. There are plenty of 432s running around in Japan on their OEM Kobe Seiko magnesium wheels with no problems, and as long as they have been well looked after and are checked fairly regularly they can be perfectly safe. What kills them are constant dampness (where moisture gets under the chromate finish) and salts. It's pretty easy to see when this happens, and when wheels become scrap. Full inspection is good advice, but it's good advice for any other 45+ year old wheels too - regardless of materials. If you get into a situation where your Magnesium wheels catch fire I'd say you're already in a world of hurt, and the other volatile materials in the car have a pretty good chance of killing you first...

Not so much lies, but plain old mistakes and half-truths get repeated until they are gospel. Like... No such thing as a Japanese police car with ZG style body and 432 (S20) engine, let alone "de-tuned". Nissan supplied just THREE (3!) PS30 Fairlady Z432s to the Kanagawa Highway Patrol. Their engines were completely stock. They were fitted with the 432's stock S12 two piston, unventilated, front disc brakes. Nissan also supplied a few Fairlady 240ZGs to the Japanese police, but they too were mechanically stock - even down to the stock wheels and hubcaps. The police workshops modified them with police-related equipment (lights, radio, PA system, safety equipment etc) but they were mechanically stock. Nissan have the last survivor of these cars preserved in their Heritage Collection at Zama. The various Japanese regional police forces also used L20A-engined Fairlady Z-Ls and Fairlady Z-L 2/2 as highway patrol vehicles on the Expressway network. So there was no combination of a ZG-bodied and S20 or LY-engined Japanese police car, but there were ZG-bodied police cars and S20-engined police cars. It doesn't take much to get it all mixed up...

Craig, I'm sorry I can't provide any other numbers than those you have quoted. Pretty sure they are NLA through the normal Nissan parts system. But do you really need them? Only the very earliest sets of MK63s I bought many, many years ago (25+ years) had them and subsequently they were never supplied in the NISMO-sourced versions or the ones that were supplied aftermarket when NISMO stopped listing them. I never use them!

All of the *works* rally 240Zs (and 260Zs...) were built by Nissan in Japan, first registered for road use in Japan (with 'carnet' temporary export plates and paperwork) by Nissan, and first used by Nissan (as opposed to private individuals). They were all built to FIA Appendix J Group 3 and/or Group 4 homologation specs depending on first event entered. If your local Eligibility Chair - as you say - knows about these cars and accepts them as providing the proof needed, then what's the problem? Surely you're home free? What am I missing...?

Are these "...around 30 new cars..." the Works rally cars, perchance? If so, then I refer you to my previously made point about them not being sold to the general public as new cars - which is, surely, the crux of the matter? Those Works rally cars were FIA Groups 3 and 4 homologated. If your local 'Historic Production Sports' (key word: *Production*) class was run to FIA Groups 3 and/or 4 of Appendix J you'd be well away, but my guess is it isn't, and for good reason...

I'm not ready to commit to him yet. You've still got a chance.

With all due respect, that's not the way it reads. The article says: "What you do is take your brand fresh 240Z, remove the transmission, differential, suspension, brake linings, wheels and tyres...and, throw them all away." How is this different to the situation in any other country? Nissan's parts department listed the parts in question, but didn't supply them as an option (a box to tick on ordering) on a showroom model in that country. I think all this "prove it to me" thing from race class organisers is based on their faith that you won't be able to. If you do, they'll simply move the goalposts again because their aim is to keep the status quo and promote races on a relatively even playing field (even if some don't agree).

Don't worry about me, I'm just one of your Barry McKenzie-styled "Poofters"...

At least 4 posts from the last 12 hours - including one of yours - vanished.

Nonsense! The 'Omega Z' was a Car and Driver magazine project car. The whole point was that this was something that Nissan USA didn't sell, but Car and Driver magazine thought they should...