HS30-H

Are posts being deleted from this thread?

Not sure if I've posted these before, but some reference to what the unvented and vented type MK63s look like: Original FIA 3023 homolgation papers addition for the vented type MK63 caliper and disc: NISMO catalogue page showing the parts: Vented type MK63-20S as mounted on my 432-R replica project car: I'm intrigued by the comments about weight of the MK63 vs the Toyota four-pistons. I think I'll put some new pads in these NOS MK63s and weigh them again to make sure, but I'm convinced the MK63s are lighter than the pair of Toyota calipers that are lurking in the back of the garage. Yes, the MK63s are cast iron, with steel pistons, and are heavy by comparison with modern calipers or pure race calipers (the Sumitomo MK63 was originally developed for the President limousine from a Girling patent!) but they are not that bad. As you can see, a vented type MK63 with no pads comes in on my scales at 3.8kg, so the pads will take it over 4kg. Let's see...

I think 1600dave has answered that question far better than I could, and I'm afraid I don't know anything much - if at all! - about your Groups Sb & Sc over there (especially after conversing with dat2kman...) but, if it's any comfort, the brake situation in Sb and Sc sounds just like the UK's 'Historic Roadsports' class, where they try to keep what you might call 'pure race' modifications to a minimum in an effort to replicate period club racing and keep the focus on a level playing field for all eligible makes and marques. In the UK's Historic Roadsports class they are forced to use the stock front calipers, but are allowed to space them to accommodate vented discs. This seems to work well enough for them, as the 240Zs are often up at the front of the field. I hear similar grumblings about other makes and marques being allowed to use parts that were only local dealer upgrades and whatnot, but you always get that. It's just parts of the politics of class racing I guess.

Isn't that an archive picture of 260DET trying to get his car to go faster? I think I can make out the cardboard diffuser and the ground-effect undertray he fashioned from honeycomb (after he'd sucked all the toffee off it).

Your comment was made in the context of this, from post #35 in this thread: "My interpretation of Kameari branded stuff it is like the Repco of Japan. They don't make anything themselves they just put their sticker over the top of everyone elses stuff and well marketed." So you're supporting the mistaken idea that "...they don't make anything themselves...". I'll ask you again, where do Kameari claim the AZC style alloy sump is their own design/own product, and do they "just put their sticker over the top"? You don't seem to be very good at giving straight answers to straight questions, so I'm not necessarily holding out much hope. If you knew anything of substance - anything - about K.E.W. you'll know that they indeed do design, engineer and manufacture a lot of their own products. If you knew that, then you had the opportunity to correct the slight, but you chose not to and instead bring up the AZC sump thing which - as far as I am aware - was a rumour started by AZC themselves. If AZC had any control over the IP and the casting foundry's patterns then they'd surely find it easy to stop, no? The fact that they don't appears to indicate that they don't have that control, and that K.E.W. are having batches cast and machined by the same foundry quite legitimately. In any case it's a straw man argument in the context of K.E.W.'s other products. Ironically enough, there are people out there in *our community* who take Kameari Engine Works products and put their own 'sticker' on them. There are even people who have attempted to copy some of the K.E.W. products. Naughty naughty, but they seem to get away with it.

Perhaps you need reminding of what you wrote: The point of which was...?

We've got into such circular discussions about your somewhat bizarre local 'Production Sports Cars' class rules before, and ended up going nowhere. I'm afraid I can't make head or tail of it all... It's a simple point. The MK63-20S calipers and discs were homologated for JAF and FIA-compliant Group 3 and Group 4 competition use in period, and if you want to get HTP papers for such a car it must use them. What's "better" or "lighter" is a moot point.

Not FIA compliant for the S30-series Z though, which is the reason why the MK63 is used in the first place...

So where did K.E.W. claim that the alloy sump was their own design/their own IP/their own product? As far as I'm aware they don't make any such claim. As for guessing games, that seems to be exactly what you are doing. So K.E.W. sell something that AZC also sell, but the K.E.W. retailed version doesn't have AZC's name on it, so it seems logical to me that this is a case of a legitimately sourced product (it's not like K.E.W. are machining off the AZC logo or anything) with money changing hands in the right direction. What's the problem? Isn't it just another cheap shot at a modest company that doesn't deserve it?

That's a vented type MK63-20S, with all hardware (pins, retaining clips and link cable) but no pads. Fosters!? Thanks but no thanks...

If you get me a cold beer, I'll stick an NOS one on the scales and report back...

I can listen too though. Beer would be good...

The original Sumitomo MK63-20S were also cast iron, so the replicas/copies follow that. I'm aware of an instance where a car was DQ'd for running the Toyota Hi-Lux calipers in an FIA-compliant event. The MK63 replicas on the other hand would probably be close enough to the homologation to be legal.

I'm always upset when I see people making mistakes that could have been avoided with a little more effort. Quite a lot of your posts on classiczcars and HybridZ come to mind... To defend Kameari Engine Works - a small company that I've been visiting, buying parts from and recommending to others for what must be close to 20 years now - they don't try to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. Yes, they sell parts made by other companies but there's no smoke and mirrors involved. All you have to do is ask. If you're buying NGK spark plugs, genuine Mikuni spares or KYB shock absorbers from K.E.W. hopefully you won't need to ask... Their own-brand parts (and especially their engine mechanical componentry) are usually parts which they themselves have commissioned and developed. There's a lot of work and heavy capital investment involved in much of that, and there are very few companies dealing with the cars we are interested in here who invest as much as K.E.W. do. Over recent years they have been putting a lot of effort into filling the gaps that the likes of Nissan and Toyota have created by discontinuing manufacture and supply. I'm personally grateful that they stepped up to the plate with regard to certain S20 engine parts in particular. The comment about the Arizona Z Car alloy sumps always makes me smile (it usually comes up when people want to diss K.E.W.) but does anyone ever stop to think why the AZC version has their name on it but the K.E.W. retailed version doesn't? I think the answer is that they are cast in the same foundry, but AZC doesn't have exclusive rights to them and the actual manufacturer is free to sell to anyone who will stump up the capital investment for another batch to be cast and machined. Too simple for some people to grasp? I the case of the Harada Shokai inlet manifolds, I don't know how anyone with half a clue could imagine that Kameari was the manufacturer: When you buy a Harada manifold from Kameari it comes in the Harada box FFS! The problem here is that various people (especially since the rise of social media) refer to the Harada manifolds as 'Kameari' manifolds because they don't know any better, and it becomes the lingua franca. Harada themselves are a small, family run specialist manufacturing company who prefer to stick to doing what they do best and allowing the likes of K.E.W., V50, Rubber Soul and several others to retail their products. Lastly I'll just say that in my experience K.E.W. owner Mr Shigeo Mori is a straight-shooter who is as good as his word. There are very few companies who cater for 'our' cars in the right way, and they really ought to be understood and valued by the community they serve. Mori san is a rare exception among Japanese specialists in that he has made great effort to reach out to international customers by dealing with them in English. When I first started buying parts from him it was always conducted in Japanese, but with more and more enquiries from outside Japan he tried to meet them half way by studying English and investing in (at that time expensive!) translation software. Of all the people I have referred to him, I can't think of a single one who has felt let down.

No offence, but it seems you know next to nothing about Kameari Engine Works and the products they sell.

Certainly not from a KPGC10 as they are a fundamentally different design. I think that's a late 1976 KS kensa-stamp on the back there, so contemporary with the S31s. Maybe a type supplied for and designed to work with the Mitsubishi 'orange box' CDI units. There was some variation over the years and I'm sure I've not seen all the different types... I'll look into it. I've got quite a few Japanese, UK and USA/North American market tachs and speedos floating around in my possession, but none with the 'ADR' logo on, so clearly an Australian compliance thing. New one on me! Isn't that 'IC' logo on the late KS tachs and speedos just the 'Integrated Circuits' mark though?

Well, it's very heavy when full (which has all sorts of other implications) and the cars that got them from the factory - the 432-Rs and the works race and rally cars - had different rear floors (deleted spare tyre well, as you mentioned), different, beefier, rearmost body crossmembers and different tank hanger brackets. To do the whole thing properly so that it looks authentic and works properly is a real lot of graft and fabrication. Factory race cars (and some of the later - injected - works rally cars) ended up with alloy 110 litre and even 120 litre tanks. It was a real endurance racing thing.

Repeat after me: "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't need a 100 litre fuel tank". "I don't want a 100 litre fuel tank". ...and keep going.

It's actually a 1976 Fairlady Z-L, built and modified to look like an earlier car (tail lamps etc), mistakenly being called a 'Datsun 240Z' by the importers/video makers. UK Z Club forum thread started by the car's owner here: http://zclub.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28062

The earliest version of the interior tail light panel had no (removable) access panels for the tail light bulbs, so you had to take the whole bloody thing off to change a bulb. Second version and on incorporated access panels which made life a lot easier.

As I said above, my 1970 Fairlady Z-L has exactly the same spreaders/mount plates spotwelded to the floor and the design was exactly the same, and certainly carried from 1969 through to late 1973. My GP Maroon 1972 Fairlady 240ZG is just a few chassis numbers away from Kats' 240ZG and of course the design is the same. The footrest was standard equipment on all 'Deluxe' models in Japan, but an extra-cost showroom option on the 'Standard' models. I believe the factory put the mount plates on the floors of all the Japanese market cars (certainly between '69 and '73) to allow the showroom optioning and because retro-fitting would require welding. Car in my above photos is my (GP White) 1972 Fairlady 240ZG, the ex Masami Kuwashima car, now part way through restoration.

I got out and got under. The threaded studs on the footrest are 280mm apart, and of course the holes in the mounts correspond with that dimension. The inner mount (as can be seen from Kats' photo) curves around the shape of the floor pan and is slightly flattened on the return edge where it gets near to the floor support U-channel. There's some shape to the outer mount too. They are both spot-welded to the floor panel. I now have custom seat mount crossmembers on that car (to enable lower seat slider positioning) and the original seat mount crossmembers are gone, so nothing much inside to measure to, sorry. I could try taking measurements from my 1970 Fairlady Z-L's body though, as that car also has a passenger footrest.

OK, bear with me. I'll see what I can do ASAP. One thing I would say is that the reinforcing mounts are particular shapes, and the outboard one is shaped to fit the curve of the floor. It's probably worth trying to replicate that if making your own mounts, so I'll try to capture some decent photos of them accordingly.

Crikey. It's like being given extra school homework... Measurements are difficult (where to measure to/from...) and these things have a habit of turning into something much bigger and more controversial than you ever imagined once a few idiots misinterpret, modify and misunderstand the original data. So here's a pre-resto photo to see what you think of it:

They should have bolted you into it. I'm sure you'd show them how it's done... In his defence, that's Haruhito Yanagida and he has nothing to prove to anybody. The NISMO Festival is a demo event where Nissan bring a lot of their old race cars out of hibernation and run them around a race track. It's not a race. Most of the old cars are babied around and are just trying to keep out of the way of much faster and more modern stuff (and the circuit buses). In the LY-engined 240ZR's case, NISMO haven't got an awful lot of spares for it and it would NOT be cool to stick it in the barriers or stick a rod out the side of the block. Personally I'm more affronted by the blue silicone hoses than Yanagida not being in the right gear, off line and not giving it the full beans.