Skaife Talking Sense.

[gav240z]

I just watched this and couldn't agree more.

 

 

Not sure if you've all seen it or not? But 1 thing I noticed coming back home to Australia recently was the stark difference of road laws compared to living in Europe.

 

It's incredible how many camera's and rules there are around speed limits. I constantly found myself checking the speedometer in my mum's car as I didn't want her to get a fine when I was driving.

 

I must say I couldn't agree more with Mark's assessment of the situation and I'm still bamboozled as to why changes like this haven't been made?

 

As he said, there is also a huge number of dated vehicles on the road. Older cars tend to retain too much value in my opinion and there is not enough frequent checks of road worthiness - at least not that I'm aware of in Victoria. Compulsory 2 year tests would soon see older vehicles values drop very quickly and encourage people to buy newer cars, since running old ones would become quite expensive.

 

Of course there will always be room for classic vehicles, but get those 20 year old Commodores off the roads and out of P-plate driver hands and definitely stop parents teaching kids how to drive. 

 

Thoughts?

 

[zzzzed]

I don't like it at all. I know I for 1 can't afford a new car unless I was to buy a budget Chinese pice of crap. The gu 1999 patrol I own now is the newest car I have owned by far. Previos to that my cars have been all 80's cars or older. If I was to buy a decent new car I would have to sell my zed  :'(

[PZG302]

If cars were maintained properly then there is no reason why they can't meet any roadworthy standards.

 

In NSW you have yearly inspections and if a car is maintained it will sail throw no problems, I have had mainly old cars, until 5 years ago the youngest car I owned was 15 years old, and all in NSW where they were maintained and in good condition, even my $300 shitters were well kept, and sent to the wreckers when they wouldn't pass. I purposely went to a strict workshop to make sure my cars were up to scratch.

 

The bigger issue is the standard of driver training in this country which is crap. A licence should be seen as a privilege not a right as it is in Australia. The driving test to get your licence is a joke, just having to know how to do a 3 point point turn, revers park and then not run into anyone in a 10 minute drive around the block. The new system for logging hours by learners is not much of an improvement as it reinforces bad habits that are passed on from parents and friends who are realistically the only ones doing any real training, who have no skills or meet any standards for their ability or knowledge of what they are doing.

 

In general, all drivers in Australia are crap and that includes the vast majority of us. I'm still learning how to drive with nearly 30 years experience of on road and off road driving and I have average over 50,000km a year on the road for last 10 years. Unless you are a proffessional racing driver or driving instructor, you to are more than likely a crap driver. Sure most people can operate a car and manage to get from point a to point b in one piece but most have no idea of how to acutally drive a car safely with regard for other road users and the conditions encountered along the way.

[DAZDA]

...

 

The bigger issue is the standard of driver training in this country which is crap. A licence should be seen as a privilege not a right as it is in Australia. The driving test to get your licence is a joke, just having to know how to do a 3 point point turn, revers park and then not run into anyone in a 10 minute drive around the block. The new system for logging hours by learners is not much of an improvement as it reinforces bad habits that are passed on from parents and friends who are realistically the only ones doing any real training, who have no skills or meet any standards for their ability or knowledge of what they are doing.

 

In general, all drivers in Australia are crap and that includes the vast majority of us. I'm still learning how to drive with nearly 30 years experience of on road and off road driving and I have average over 50,000km a year on the road for last 10 years. Unless you are a proffessional racing driver or driving instructor, you to are more than likely a crap driver. Sure most people can operate a car and manage to get from point a to point b in one piece but most have no idea of how to acutally drive a car safely with regard for other road users and the conditions encountered along the way.

 

I would like to see mandatory retesting for your licence every 5 years.  There is only two big problems with this; firstly it will only result in a whole lot more unlicenced drivers on the road, and secondly no government would be brave enough to try and introduce it since they would be voted out at the next election.

 

As for the newer cars on the road, new cars result in more carbon emissions (it takes massive amounts of energy to make a new car, especially a hybrid), so doesn't this fly in the face of society's gradual environment preservation movement?  Shouldn't they be encouraging everyone to make their current cars last as long as possible?

 

Is Skaife a representative of the Australian Motor Vehicle Manufacturers??? Oh wait, for the V8 Supercars series to run they need backing from car manufacturers and the car manufacturers want everyone to buy new cars (mass consumerism)...  No link there. 

[nizm0zed]

I havent watched the clip (youtube blocked at work)

But i strongly beleive that there should be mandatory retesting for EVERYONE, no exception.

It wouldn't need to be strict, every 5 years when you renew your licence, if you fail, you are given 6 months to pull yourself 'up to scratch' through recognised instructors (recognised and subsidised so long as they maintain a standard through qualification maybe?)

Likewise, initial driver training is an absolute joke, as is the BS concept that teaching young kids how to improve their defensive driver skills on skidpans and such will make them want to go drifting on the street. Newsflash, those idiots are going to do it anyway, id rather they didnt, but if they are, it'd be better if they actually know how to control the car, instead of learning fresh amongst other cars and people. that opens up discussion into mostorsport complexes, but thats a whole other rant.

Yea, overall a lot of people would lose their licences, and the gumbyment would be pressured to improve public transport (look to Germany or Japan as an example there)

I estimate (uneducated) that it'd only take 10-15 years to see a massive improvement in overall driver skill, a reduction in road accidents overall and substantial increase in revenue from public transport. Admittedly a lot of the 'example' countries with excellent public transport are geographically small, which does make it easier for them but when have Australians shied away from a challenge!

As to the value of older vehicles, yes, they would drop.

So would (almost)new vehicles, placing them in the reach of people who couldn't normally afford them. also, if you had better public transport, you wouldnt need to drive as much, reducing your onroad costs allowing you to spend more on the initial purchase?

There is allways finance options too.

Lets face it, there is a LOT of flab in the price of vehicles in this country. a $50,000 falcon/commodore would be barely worth $20,000 in europe or America. they say it costs more to ship cars from overseas, pay taxes ect ect, so why is our local market soo damn expensive? government makes revenue off it, its not in their interests to fix that problem, all the manufacturers would cry poor, lay off staff, stamp thier feet, move overseas then make more profit anyway.

Unfortunately the prevailing attitude from our fearless leaders (yea right...) is that we dont know best and we need to be told how to wipe our own butts through legislation and taxes, their foresight only extends as far as the next election and its pretty much allways firmly rooted as a polar opposite to the other idiot party.

It would be a nice concept to see Labor and Liberal (and greens, independants ect) sit down on a big topic like this and nut out a roadplan for the changing governments of power follow over the course of 3 decades.

unfortunately its more likely that i'd win lotto, and i dont buy tickets...

[thriller]

It seems the entire system is a bit of a mess here. From public transport to driver education to quality of roads, etc etc.

 

The funny thing about safety and old cars, is that if you make an old car anywhere near as safe as a new car (upgrade suspension, brakes, cages, wider wheels, whatever), you'll get a defect and the car will never see the road again. But drive around in a 40 year old kingswood with half a floor and no-one will even bat an eyelid.

 

I know it's so much harder to police shitty and inattentive driving than it is to hand out canary's, so that's where re-testing of licenses should come into play.

 

And the point about new cars being too expensive; I agree completely. Only in Australia though, where any half-decent brand new car will be in the region of $40,000+.

 

Better public transport (and the incentive to use it) would be nice too. I catch the bus 5 days a week and the only driving I ever do is 5km down the street to work and the bus stop, and a bit of a bash through the hills once a week or less.

 

It's also a joke how easy it is to get your licence here. Back in highschool, the quality of driving by every single P plater was on average, frightening. Literally all you have to do to be able to drive a car on our roads is:

 

-pass a theory test with 8 questions about giving way

-forge anywhere from half of your required hours driving with a parent (nobody checks, I think everyone was guilty of adding a few extra hours on)

-spend 30 minutes with an instructor in the car sticking to speed limits, indicating and stopping for stop

 

The number of kids who wrote off a car within 2 years of getting their licence was also pretty staggering (myself included, for exactly what I'm advocating here...).

 

 

I don't think it's going to get any better for a long time either.

[saxon]

I'm in India at the moment for work.

 

Take a look at the infrastructure and standard of driving here and you will never complain about Australia again!

 

The sort of stuff that goes on here boggles the mind. 5 person family on a motorbike, no helmets of course. No trains in this city. Deadlocked traffic. Stray dogs crossing the roads everywhere. Constant honking and weaving. Open tray trucks overloaded with raw materials falling out everywhere. Totally nuts.

[nizm0zed]

Im sure i'll get flamed, but i see India as a very unique situation.

 

Its a 3rd world country all dressed up and playing like a 1st world country.

(im not having a dig, but there is a LONG way they still need to come in many areas)

[Zedman240®]

I think another important test would be for the drivers attitude! The "not in front of me" thing is one thing that really pisses me off and you see it everywhere. I tottaly agree with the parents teaching kids bad habits; how many times do I see L platers on the freeway on the right lane doing 90 kays..way to often! I can keep ranting but I better hold off...better watch the video too..haha

[260DET]

Are road deaths any worst in AU than elsewhere though? The whole thing is blown out of proportion by govmints trying to justify their revenue grabs I think, plus their over emphasis on speed does not encourage joe blow to think any further past his speedo. If he drives within the speed limit then he is a 'good driver' and that is all that matters. In AU.

 

 

[sydney mike]

As a driving instructor for cars for the last 9 years, RTA accredited Aged driver assessor and and more recently now  heavy vehicle instructor/assessor as well as I guess I'll throw in my 2 bobs worth.

 

Firstly, we don't have 160km/h roads in this country and certainly won't have that high standard of infrastructure I don't think in my lifetime anyway.

 

I may have vested interests but I don't think it's a good idea for family/friends to teach learners how to drive. The problem is that in this country, a drivers licence is seen as a right, not a privilege. In other countries as mentioned in the clip, all training must be done by a professional instructor and not family/friends (packing my bags atm ) Can you imagine if they did that here? They would burn the place down. I sometimes get government contracts to give lessons to people less fortunate who cannot afford lessons so they can be more employable.

 

The driving test in NSW is approx 30mins long and of course it is not difficult enough to pass. After a spate of fatal crashes involving young people, victims families, police, RTA,NRMA and driver trainers got together and they decided to implement the increase from 50 to 120hrs of logged driving with minimum 20hrs nightime, but still no compulsory professional driving lessons. Plus restrictions on hi-po cars, peer passenger nightime restrictions etc.

 

Now, after pressure from the public if you are over 25, you don't need to log any hours before attempting the test.

 

We don't have a perfect system but these are just some of the suggestions I have been voicing to RTA for many years:

 

Make the driving test longer and more difficult. Abolish testing at small suburban motor registries and only test at large registries where they can access motorways/freeways to include in the test course. Why make it convenient for the applicants? You want your licence, you make the effort to come to us.

 

Remove the 80km/h limit for learners-they are under supervision from a "responsible" experienced driver so if the supervisor assesses that the learner is capable then they should be able to get experience of at least 90km/h.

What I can't understand is this: in NSW learners are restricted to 80km/h, but once they get their red P's, they are allowed to drive at 90km/h UNSUPERVISED-something that they have never experienced before!

 

Change licence class for vehicles over 2tonnes (eg Prado, landcruiser etc) to Light Rigid class (LR). It's ridiculous that you can pass your P's in a Yaris and then drive a 3 tonne landcruiser

 

Subsidise Defensive driving course for new P platers.

 

And in relation to new car prices, IMO I don't think new cars are expensive today. For example, my dad bought his pulsar Q brand new back in 1993 for $21,000, with air con but no power windows. Last month my sister bought a brand new corolla sport with spoilers, alloys, cruise, bluetooth, leather steering wheel etc for $22,000. But in saying that, I would not buy a brand new car unless for business/tax purposes. I'd be quite happy with a good used one. And happy with my Zed too.

 

Just one last note, next time you are frustrated by a slow moving learner, please just take a deep breath, keep your distance and don't tailgate. Cheers.

 

 

[sydney mike]

I'm in India at the moment for work.

 

 

 

Stealing jobs from the locals?  the irony!

[nizm0zed]

Just one last note, next time you are frustrated by a slow moving learner, please just take a deep breath, keep your distance and don't tailgate. Cheers.

 

THAT^^^^^ Really cheeses me off!!!!

If i end up behind a learner, i give them distance and also to some degree block the morons from getting too close.

Its not hard to show some respect to another road user, especially one that is trying to learn a lot of skills at once with distractions all around.

 

Sydney mike, im curious, at those meetings you mentioned, does the 'panel' take in community views like this forum and others?

It would seem to be a good place to gauge the many sided public opinions on matters at hand.

[saxon]

Stealing jobs from the locals?  the irony!

 

Unfortunately no irony. Training them how to do my job. No hard feelings on them or anyone else, i get an awesome trip and experience out of it, and wasnt a great job anyway.

 

Only thing id change is bring down the driving age to 17. Getting the license and into bars at the same time is a bad idea. And mandatory testing every 2 years or so for drivers over 80.

[Mr Camouflage]

It's incredible how many camera's and rules there are around speed limits. I constantly found myself checking the speedometer in my mum's car as I didn't want her to get a fine when I was driving.

 

Thoughts?

 

Happened to watch some current affairs show last night in which they quoted annual revenue from speed cameras:

 

NSW: 2.5 million

QLD: 49 million

VIC: 52.3 million

 

per year!

 

[perrin_07]

i agree with pzg302 regarding the retesting and upgrading users in driving education.

 

i just bought a 96 bmw 323i, and i bet its as in good condition than most 00's cars on the road. i for one could not afford a new car, and nor would i want to buy a new car with the drivers who drive on these roads.i also cant afford to have it completely fully comprehensive insured either, so it would be great to see insurance be cheaper. perhaps the new the cars, the cheaper it is to insure them? BUT wouldnt a good 90s european car be ALOT better than a new chinese car anyway?

[sydney mike]

 

Sydney mike, im curious, at those meetings you mentioned, does the 'panel' take in community views like this forum and others?

It would seem to be a good place to gauge the many sided public opinions on matters at hand.

Hi Alan,

 

these "workshops" I mentioned usually happen no more than 3 times a year when the RTA introduces changes to the licencing system or driver trainers association meetings where they invite some poor RTA chap who will get a grilling from us. They invite large  transport companies such as Linfox and  driving instructors. The higher level talks with state transport minister, we foot soldiers never get invited to, only the suits.

 

Lately, I haven't been bothered voicing my opinions anymore because the majority of instructors take over the debate obssessed with trying to get mandatory lessons with instructors to make more money. While this is a step in the right direction, I would rather focus on reworking the driving test and an accompanying curriculum for instructors to teach, instead of instructors teaching monkeys to pass a drivng test.

 

I tell anyone thinking about becoming a driving instructor to do it if they enjoy teaching. If they think they are going to make alot of money, think again-try something else, there are easier ways.

 

Community forums unfortunately only really come about from knee-jerk reactions to graphic front page newspaper reporting of some poor kid who wraps a Skyline around a tree or like this January with that B-double on the menangle bridge.

 

And back to the old v new car debate, if I am buying for myself I don't mind an older car. If it is for someone I care about, the newer the better because of better safety features, stronger chassis, better crash protection. That is also my advice to my student's parents.

 

I am not in the panel beating game so I wouldn't be able to tell if the 10 year old car I am about to buy has had a major shunt in its past and would crumple like a can of coke if I gave it a love tap. One of my students was going to buy a 3 year old VW golf, lucky her dad was smart enough to get a pre purchase inspection-they found NO AIRBAG in the steering wheel and dodgy wiring to hide that fact.