MSCA new class rulings 2012

[luvemfast]

Finally, we will no longer be penalized for our dinosaur technology 

Note, that an RB powered Z may be classed as a modern car rather than classic.

 

Competition Classes:

It has become evident to the MSCA Committee that our long established competition classes were no longer representing the type of vehicles competing in our events, and were in fact penalising the owners of Classic Sports cars.

The older traditional Marque Sports cars such as MGB's were being asked to compete head to head with modern Marque Sports cars such as the Lotus Elise. Further examples are TR8's competing against modern Corvettes and GT3's, and Datsun 240/260/280Z's competing with modern Porsche 911's and Nissan 200SX's.

To fix this, the Committee in December 2011 decided on a major change to our Class structure by dividing all existing Classes (except Clubmans, R1 & R2) into Classic and Modern Classes. The cutoff date is January 1st 1986, Classic being up till 31st December 1985 and everything after that being in the Modern classes.

Which class the car is placed into is determined by its date of manufacture, or the date of manufacture of the engine. The younger of the two determining whether it is modern or classic. As an example, a Datsun 260Z was manufactured in the late seventies with an "L" series engine, so therefore is in the Classic class. If however it is fitted with a an RB30 engine out of a post  1986 Nissan Skyline, or VL Commodore, it becomes a Modern Vehicle.

The existing classification of vehicles into "Marque" and "Non Marque" does not change. Performance enhancements; e.g. engine, engine management, forced induction, may place  a "Classic" car into "Modern", depending on the date of the enhancements. The MSCA does not adopt or follow the CAMS or AASA definitions of Marque Sports Cars.

[Zedman240®]

The last sentence has me worried... do they mean just with engine management and an L series engine I'll be bumped up to "Modern" with a 40 year old car and engine? Hope not!

[luvemfast]

Yes, I read that the same as you Dimitri.

I think there may be a rush for guys wanting triple carbs.

[C.A.R.]

Surely the grandparent rule would have to apply there:- The 280Z was fitted with injection from factory...?!

[luvemfast]

Surely the grandparent rule would have to apply there:- The 280Z was fitted with injection from factory...?!

ITB's? 

[260DET]

Jason would know more but I believe that the 280Z factory injected manifold is not the greatest flow wise, triple carbs are potentially better. With a carb NA engine a modern engine management system is not really necessary for a race engine is it? 

[Zedman240®]

One thing I hope they mean is if you have a "Classic" 280ZX for example and change its engine management (ECU) to something later would that be moved to modern?

[dat2kman]

If msca rules say a L engined Z with triple weber as carbs is still a "classic" then it should then apply to a 260 or a 280 body is same, except for minor front end differences, but, yes same body, the USA 280, as we all know came with a single t/b on a log plenum.

If a 240/260 is permitted triples, ie six butterflys, then as a 280 it too should be permitted six butterflys, ie itb's, along with a change of ecu to manage them, just like you change points dizzy, recurve for pergormance, and change fuel and air jetting within a Weber, same thing, in an ecu.

 

It will tske just one of us to present a six x itb L engined Z with ecu to manage it all, to "test" their capability to accept, if so great, if not, then those tjat run msca should get off their asses and get very vocal, citing my above analogy.

 

One thing, msca seem, as per last para, to run their own rulrs, so now, we have three sporting bodies, msca, cams and aasa, absolutely marvellous! And confusing!

 

At least under marque or msca, YOU CAN run SAFE brakes, not like the ridiculous stupid idiocy that is the historics division of CAMS, they make us run stock cheesecutters,. I am getting fed up with replacing rotors every two meetings, hence why you dont see the blue 280 Sc car of mine that often.

All i need is a quick change front end cimprising a rotor and caliper, that will swap for stock rotor and caliper, just for hysteric meetings.

 

Im intending to run the blue Z at PI six hour relay in early August this year, but the following wedk is Winton Historics, so for that, it has to be stock brakes, but for PI anything goes.

I have hete a full set of 300 zx tt, has anyone done those on a front?, but no mods to stubs, caliper mounts!!

My2c worth!

[luvemfast]

One thing I hope they mean is if you have a "Classic" 280ZX for example and change its engine management (ECU) to something later would that be moved to modern?

Maybe contact them to see where the line is.

At the end of the day, it's still an n/a L series. So I'd think it wouldn't be an issue.

Unless you're faster than me. Of which case, you'd better change classes you big cheater 

[dat2kman]

One thing I hope they mean is if you have a "Classic" 280ZX for example and change its engine management (ECU) to something later would that be moved to modern?

Dimitri, see in my above.

I would contend that you are simply replacing an unable to be adjusted ecu for one that can be adjusted, just like a set of triple webers can have things adjusted along with a old type point dizzy, its jst that an aftermarket ecu does exactly same thing, nothing more.

Oh sure a rev limiter, maybe launch control, ability to switch other things on an off, but these can be fitted and controlled manually.

 

If msca say an aftermarket ecu is "modern" then triple webers should be classed the same! We can prove a s30 came with inject/ecu etc.

What other injected cars could this be aligned too, that may compeye in Vic msca??

[Zedman240®]

I have hete a full set of 300 zx tt, has anyone done those on a front?, but no mods to stubs, caliper mounts!!

My2c worth!

 

Jason, I'm running brakes like that now on the front of my 240Z. You need a set of 260 hubs and Ford Mustang discs. Mods are limited to caliper/disc. If you want to know more, PM me..

 

I'll find out more info soon.. Just have to ask the relevant people. and if needed, complain!

[NZeder]

Talking about ITB's don't forget Nissan ran ITB's on the works rally car S30's back in the early mid 70's. Now given a ITB design has not changed since the 70's to the latest version of the ITB's from the likes of TWM, EFI Hardware etc (they have a butterfly, and way of holding the injectors - that is all) - the differences is in the controlling ECU of the 70's to now or mechanical to electronic and hose tail injectors to o-ring based etc.

 

The question we need to know is how the ITB's that Nissan used on the works cars was controlled ie mechanical or electronic - also I believe it would have been fuel only with a dizzy and the Nissan CDI setup of the day controlling spark.

[luvemfast]

That should be enough evidence to be allowed ITB's with fuel injection, as long as we can prove it.

[NZeder]

I have been lucky enough to have seen a set of the Nissan ECCS ITB's that were used on a Works engine in a garage/storage shed in the UK on one visit a number of years ago so I know they do exist and I have a book at home that talks about the use of injection on the works cars.

 

Now what we need is some documentation showing a S30 L6 powered car entered a FIA event with said setup and that should go a long way to getting ITB's accepted - again I know it was done like you say Simon just having the proof to back it up.

 

Link to a post on this site about ITB setup on L6 works cars

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php?topic=9257.0

 

[PZG302]

Well, here's my 2 cents worth......

 

First off, after reading the new rules, these only apply for MSCA sprints in Victoria, so no real affect on me, Jason or anyone else who runs in proper circuit racing, where we are already hamstrung anyway. The rules seem to be very fair and the only point of conjectire is the wording of the engine management and what may happen.

 

Has anyone rung up and asked the event organiasers at the MSCA as to how the new class system would affect them instead of all this conjectire and what may or may not apply if i run a L series engine with ITB's and an autronic, or do I have to go back to carbies to run in classic and not be put into modern???

 

You will only know how this will affect you if you ring up and ask the question. With sprints, the organisers can make their own rules in terms of classes and eligibility, so what is available to use eligibility wise in terms of CAMS and FIA rules means diddley squat to the MSCA who are the organisers of your sprint series.

 

At the end of the day, if you are in modern or classic, is this going to stop you taking your car out on the track? According the initial post, if you are put in modern you will be running against cars you were up against last year anyway.

 

And a well driven 40 year old car can still beat off much more modern machinery as I showed last year in the Qld Prod Sports Championship, where for most of the year i was in 2nd place and after missing the final two rounds, ended up 4th for the season.

 

 

[Gordo]

Hi guys. The way I read it is pre 86, so if it is pre 86 Efi stuff and engine it is ok. But any motor after 86 is modern. They are not worried about brakes suspension etc. the main objective was that the gap between old and new was getting way to big. Remember this is just the msca in there wisdom to come up with this. I for one see it as a step in the right direction. Might bring a few more cars out of the garage. Cheers Gordon.