[VIC]Getting RWC these days

[Sirpent]

Damn this is a hot topic.

 

Interesting about the point raised regarding previous body repairs, and subsequent comments about the extent that a Zed should be maintained at.

 

I know this is going to rattle a few cages, but, a friend of mine once said to me, you can afford to buy a Benz but can you afford to maintain it?, if you cant your better off with a more realistic car.

 

He was a Benz dealer, and the irony he is that he was killed just over a year ago in a stupid roadside incident involving a wheel coming off a passing trucks dog trailer that struck him as he stood next to his car in the emergency lane calling a tow truck for a clients car that had broken down on the Westgate freeway, a 10,000,000 to 1 chance, yet it happened and guess what, the truck was unroadworthy.

 

Rev, Scoota, Peter are all correct, if you drive one of these classics drive it not only for the love of the experience but for the love of the car, driving a safety hazard is just plain idiotic, committing to repairs that are substandard and may cause an inspector to query a vehicles structural validity speaks for itself if what has been stated here is correct.

 

Right now I could cut corners and get my Z back on the road in a matter of weeks, but I know it will be 18 months at the earliest that that will happen and its not due to not having time but more so the money I have to invest in it to get it right.

 

There are some damn great builds and results on this forum, inspirational as a matter of fact, but there are also a few seemingly dodgy cars, don't even bother pasting that last line as a quote in a reply, I wont bite, we do what we can on our cars but sometimes we can do that Little extra and we don't and that's where we come undone.

 

I have some mates who think that Z owners and their cars cant be considered as being part of the classic car community as we present our vehicles like roughnecks, at this stage I would have to agree.

 

OK let me just turn around and you can all start throwing them knives and hitting the "-" karma button.

 

[chris240]

your pretty much on the button John..

Ive had my licence for 24 yrs now and Ive found the best way to approach "the system" and inspectors is usually with manners & a box of chocolates.

[gav240z]

As far as I'm concerned the RWC system in Victoria (I don't know about other states) has been far too lax for far too long. Let's say you buy a brand new car and after 15 years decide to sell it. Only after 15 years and change of ownership is a RWC required.

 

In the UK and Ireland you need MOT or NCT respectively and this is done every 2 years regardless of ownership changes. So basically cars must be kept up to standard. This is why cars loose so much value over here, as soon as they hit 200,000km or more nobody wants them. It's rare to see cars on the road that are older than 1990 and most are 2000+ models.

 

I honestly think it can only be a good thing to have stricter rules on RW vehicles in Australia. God knows it would have saved me lots of grief when I purchased my first 240z and 260z 2+2. The 260z had been in a major rear end accident causing a gap between the rear 1/4 panel and the rear floor / luggage area. As a result heaps of fantastic Z fumes poured in. It was so bad that after a couple of hours in the car my friends and I had sore eyes and a headache not to mention our clothes stunk of lead fumes.

 

Lead toxicity has been linked with lower IQ's, hence the reason I may not be so smart haha. But seriously cars in poor condition are downright deadly and anything that makes it so that shit cars come off the road and good cars remain is a good thing.

 

So when fixing up your Zed do it once and do it properly.

[Wayne G]

I guess the bottom line is to make sure the body repairs are done properly, or so well that there are no indicators of them being done, which itself would tend to indicate they had been done properly!

 

The best way to approach anyone is with respect and an open mind, especially if they are in a position of authority or your elder!

[reverendzed]

Zeddophile just confirmed my topic.

 

 

Learn anything new Reverandzed???

 

I sincerely hope that you listen to the good advise on this forum at least better than you listened to your mum when she was attempting to teach you the benefits of good manners!  Oh, and when you have successfully restored some Zeds, matured a little and put your manners back in you have the right to throw in a few 'roostery' comments.  However your comment about what you may choose to sell in St Kilda to finance your resto has probably well defined your current value system.

 

Cheers,

Rev.

[53-681]

Wow easy man, I was just throwing a few jokes

 

sheesh, wheres the love man, all I see here is hate.

 

 

 

I'll be wary next time as it seems; majority of people on this thread are easily offended.

 

 

 

Kind Regards,

Sam

[Bigfella]

Zeddophile just confirmed my topic.

 

 

Learn anything new Reverandzed???

 

You can not seriously be giving Rev Shit. He is one of the most helpful and selfless persons on this forum.

 

Don't expect to be getting to much help with comments like that!

Bad form Fella.

 

 

[benny]

Its called etiquette mate!!  You can't just come barging in here running your mouth.... This is a specialty club for enthusiasts that appreciate and respect the other members, once youve got some runs on the board and meet some of the guys is a different story!!

 

As Bigfella said.... badform!!

[FuzzyDropbear]

Mate, you have to realize, it's harder to get emotions across in text than it is face to face, so it's best not to throw knives or have a dig a people until you get to know them. I've been around for a few years now and haven't had a bad experience in the club yet, all I've seen is a bunch of blokes who will do anything they can, to help you out.

 

On the roadworthy topic, I don't see the problem, my Z is nowhere near the roadworthy stage, but I already know the bloke I'll be taking it too because of the cars he deals with and I've had a chat to him and like how he operates. I don't see why you would take a car to 6 different shops to get a RWC.. Just take it to one, get the list of things to fix, fix them and then take it back...

[kobes]

I agree some Roadworthy can be slightly power trip filled when dealing with younger people.

 

Ilike to consider my self very considerate and sensible, and present the car immuculate when doing going to get a RWC togive it the best chance.

 

However, got failed due to a oil pan sump leak, (due to the washer had a small crack from being over tightened) was not really a leak but really a moisture collection. when getting told about it i thought the guy was kindly letting me know. as it was the only negitive point. to fix on nextoil change. 

 

But No, he gave it a fail.

 

I know it is an easy fix, but was highly expensive, new oil plus another $80 to backpocket of inspector to get it go over again.

 

I feeln this is very power tripy at best, at worst a scam to get more money.

 

However What disapoints me more is people like 53-681 that makes inspectors gain an attitude like this,  trying  to take short cuts, and try to "beat the system" and give a bad name to those that have passion in what we drive and maintain.

 

Your language and attitute that  you bring to a forum and tendency to shoot of your mouth inappropriatly only gives a clue to how the non car part of your RWC inspection went.

 

Kobes

 

** edit are you stillyoung at 34?

 

 

[53-681]

hmmm I am in fact very respectful kobes. I treat everybody the same, no matter how many zed's they have helped restore or how many people in Africa they've saved; everybody receives the same level of respect from me - and that is the best.

 

I do joke around too and hey - This life is too short to be too serious all the time. People should chillax a little and see the good side in life.

 

+

I am not searching for a shortcut in obtaining RWC. In fact, my current car is in the best of condition its probably been in all of its 24 years. All I was after was just to know how hard it was to receive a RWC. If it is only as hard as the condition of the car is in - with no prejudice of who the owner is or how old the vehicle is, then by all means I am happy.

 

 

Sheesh, my mate was right - I should've gotten a 510 instead

:P

[C.A.R.]

53-681 = Sam who used to have the L20b Stanza?

[53-681]

Nah, I'm not him lol.

 

You had that red sunny yeah lurch?

[C.A.R.]

Nah, I'm not him lol.

 

You had that red sunny yeah lurch?

The one that Lenny reversed over the rock with - yes...

BTW the Wangan Midnight Zed was not a 2+2!

[53-681]

hahaha,

the 2+2 was all I could afford

And in Wangan midnight, the Z that Akio sees at the wreckers is in fact a 2+2 (The damaged Z they use in the movie is a 2+2 as they're not as rare I guess)

 

Z's are too expensive these days, as in the 2 seaters...

 

 

So lenny reversed that over a rock eh - interesting... I was almost about to buy the wheels on that sunny off butch

[dazzed]

That sounds good bro, but its at the panel beater's now...

whilst your car is at the panel beaters you will have to take photos of any rust repairs undertaken before during and after of the sections repaired to prove the way in which the repairs were carried out, the more photos the better chance you have , if a LVT has any doubt about the repairs they have the right to mark it of as a structural defect

[thehelix112]

I'm not sure I understand how people can bag out 53-681 for ``running his mouth'' when he was simply responding to attitude from an (apparently) well respected member (below)

 

A RWC is going to cost you what it requires for your safety and the safety of others.  After restoring a number of Zeds I can tell you that RWC has picked up a few things that have saved me money further down the track.  Restoration of a Zed is never cheap, so if you think that you don't have the dollars or you really don't give a toss about what your Zed looks like or goes like you're probably better off getting something more affordable like a Hyundai or Daewoo, I think there is even some clubs that cater for the Korean import market and i'm sure they would be lots of fun to cruise in and easier to get a RWC.

Rev.

 

That might not be the kindest way to start a discussion on the topic: Insinuating that only those interested in ``pretty'' zeds or those with loads of cash should get to drive them.  I can see how that'd rub people the wrong way.  Does me.

 

I say bring on the ugly zeds.  My zed wants company.

 

Dave

[dazzed]

What you guys probably don't know is the content of the latest Vicroads course which all inspectors are required to take.  By July this year, ALL inspectors must have completed this course, and believe me, this is bad news.  The roadworthy guy we use through work (mechanical workshop, but without our own RWC licence) did his around the middle of last year, and ever since it has been a nightmare to get old cars roadworthied.

 

The biggest issue has been that if he spots any indicators of body repairs or rust, you need to supply him with a certificate from a registered panel beater, on an official Vicroads form that states the car is structurally sound.  Vicroads now don't consider RW inspectors to be qualified to assess the condition of the body of a car.  Of course, how many panel beaters, especially with older cars, are going to sign off on a car when they have no idea what lurks beneath the paint until the paint is removed?  Particularly when the piece of paper they sign goes into a Vicroads filing cabinet, so that if the car is in an accident 6 months later and splits in half due to bogged over rust in the sills, Vicroads will come back to the panel beater and say 'Well, you certified this car as sound, what gives?"

 

The course also addresses tightening of the tolerance on oil leaks and various other points, and an dramatic increase in the amount of paperwork a RW inspector must complete, both for each car, and overall for each month.

 

For what it's worth, the display car at this Vicroads course is a BA falcon which looks to be immaculate when it sits on the ground.  Putting it up in the air however, reveals that the sound deadener has been chipped off, and it's actually two cars joined together right through the middle....  Which is a part of what this latest tightening of regulations has been about, but it has the side effect of making it very difficult to get old cars roadworthied.

is this what your mechanic told you, somewhere someone has been missinformed,  the course is compulsory, for a LVT not a panel beater, i think someone has exagerated things a bit, A LVT has to carry these checks out allready nothing has changed, if a car has a huge rust hole in the floor the inspector will fail it , when it has been repaired and the vehicle presented for the check again you will have to submit evidence / proof of the manner in which the repair was carried out, bog fencing wire whatever, its not all that bad, its good,  Its to stop Joe bog going home and filling up the rust hole with bog and coming back and saying a new section was welded in ,so we ask to prove it, its good news for people  with older cars, more work for LVT

[53-681]

haha - at least you understand thehelix112 That's all that matters

[Zeddophile]

is this what your mechanic told you, somewhere someone has been missinformed,  the course is compulsory, for a LVT not a panel beater, i think someone has exagerated things a bit, A LVT has to carry these checks out allready nothing has changed, if a car has a huge rust hole in the floor the inspector will fail it , when it has been repaired and the vehicle presented for the check again you will have to submit evidence / proof of the manner in which the repair was carried out, bog fencing wire whatever, its not all that bad, its good,  Its to stop Joe bog going home and filling up the rust hole with bog and coming back and saying a new section was welded in ,so we ask to prove it, its good news for people  with older cars, more work for LVT

 

Yes.  You have been misinformed.  Try actually completely reading and comprehending a post for once, nowhere did I say a panel beater has to take the course.  You also might realise that my mechanics pay cheques get paid into my bank account, and I can even read his mind.

 

I'm guessing you haven't done the most recent course yet, since every other workshop in our area have started shitting themselves about bodywork directly after doing the course.  We used to get cars passed no worries when (using your example) the rust hole in the floor had been repaired by welding a new piece in.  Now, as soon as they see the welds, we've got to send the car off to the panel beater to certify that it's structurally sound.  We're losing probably 1 in 4 roadworthy jobs now because of this, and we don't end up with any extra money from the others.  It's a pain in the ass.  We actually started using a different guy to do our roadworthies, which was fine until he went and did the course, now we have the same problem with him too.

 

Fail to see how it is good news for people with older cars, it's going to mean a lot more cars getting scrapped because people shit themselves when they find out how much a RWC will cost them.

[peter mc]

hay guys as good mechanics that i have been told you are you will no that if your work is sound you will not have a problem .i just  had a z  rwt  and it past with no problems . and it had new floors  and rails the car was presented neat and tidy and the tester praised it condition and my work on it .so it can be done if you present you car in the right manner

[Zeddophile]

hay guys as good mechanics that i have been told you are you will no that if your work is sound you will not have a problem .i just  had a z  rwt  and it past with no problems . and it had new floors  and rails the car was presented neat and tidy and the tester praised it condition and my work on it .so it can be done if you present you car in the right manner

 

That is all well and good assuming YOU did the panel work.  Most of the cars we have had to get RWC for have had previous 'repairs' rather than what I'd class 'restoration', may have been 15 years ago at times.  By repairs I mean a bit of rust cut out here or there, maybe a guard replaced due to minor accident and localised repainting, all probably done with the car mostly assembled.  The sort of thing that pretty much every 30 year old car has.  And even cars which have had good quality repair work have been asked to get a panel beaters certificate on occasion. 

 

It really wasn't my intention to suggest that ANY car which has had panelwork will instantly fail, the point of my original post was that since this latest course, the required standard of the bodywork has been raised considerably.  Put it this way, if we took a sample of 100 cars that we get through that are around or 40 years old, and put them through a roadworthy 12 months ago, then put the same cars in the same condition again through now: 12 months ago I'd expect 20 of those cars to fail for bodywork reasons, either bad work or rust in structural places (as opposed to rust bubbles on guards etc).  Testing them now, I reckon we'd have issues with 50-60 of those cars for bodywork reasons.

 

I also find it hard to convey what I mean with regards to bodywork - to me it's not sufficient to say do the bodywork to a good standard.  I've lost count of the cars we've had coming to us to get running/assembled that have just come out of a panel shop or 'panels fixed by a mate', and the owner is saying how good a job the shop or mate did.  Meanwhile, I take one look at the car and think, yeah, it's shiny, BUT that swage line on the door isn't sharp, that panel isn't the original shape, I can see the shrink back in the paint on every panel, the bumpers are higher one side than the other, I can see 10mm of mig wire hanging down under the floor, and there's overspray all over the suspension.  I've seen cars that have had 5 figure respray jobs on them that I can walk around and run out of fingers on one hand to count the things that aren't right (which to me is unacceptable if you've paid that much for panel work).  The worst thing is, you have to nod and smile and say "Yeah, it looks good.", as for some strange reason people get really upset if you tell them what you really think.

 

I guess what I mean is, for example if you weld a patch into the floor - grind the weld back on both sides, make it smooth and seamless.  Make it so when it goes up on the hoist, the join can't be seen - no bits of welding wire sticking out, no lumps of weld.  Try and do all the work in such a way that you really can't tell that it has been done - and that's before you get out the bog, if you're using it.  And while we're on bog - make sure you sand it off the corners and insides of panels too.  So many people only sand the bog back on the outward facing part of the panel, but when you use bog at the edge of a panel, it ends up going around the corner too - and it makes it really obvious work has been done.  Likewise on a sill, it all gets sanded back on the parts of the panel you can see, but look at the car on the hoist, and you'll see half sanded off lumps of bog under the sill (on the part that faces the ground).  Take the time to look at the job from all angles, and say to yourself "Can I see any evidence of the work I've done?"

 

If you aren't doing the panel work yourself, but are having a panel beater do it, make sure they are prepared to certify the car as structurally sound on the appropriate Vicroads form at the end of the job.  You may not even need it come to RWC time, but it could potentially save you a lot of hassle if you do.

[Gordo]

If the rust thing is going to be a major problem. Maybe it would be a good idea to get it fixed properly first, befor you go for a rwc. If you take a car for a rwc and it has traces of rust you are asking for trouble.

[peter mc]

Zeddophile i totally agree with you about the amount of cars that come through the door with shoddy repairs and body work.

My statement was to members of the forum that are working on their Z's that have some pride in what they do and would never think of half arsed work on their classic Z, myself i would never think of doing a shoddy repair on a customers car or my own as it would mean embarrassment for myself and my co workers as i am sure most of you would feel the same way.

This whole thread should be about trying to get your car to the standard that it would pass a RW and not about shopping around to find someone who would give a bodge RW.

 

P.S & it shouldnt be about members giving each other a hard time rather be about giving help and advice.

 

Thanx

Peter Mc