Dadson Racing: 2010 Revival

[Grandad]

Hi All

 

Cars have been a big part of my life for about as long as I can remember and I'm happy to see my passion has been passed down to Whittie, I've learned that peoples passion for cars can manifest itself in different ways all of which deserve respect, d3cOy I acknowledge and respect your comment on our use of incorrect screws, when I had my concourse winning MGB I was on your page, if something wasn't factory correct for my model it wasn't on the car but that's not where we are with the Zed so as long as the screws hold the gages in place and are out of sight, we're happy.

 

It was only after the 120 Why? comment that I googled Z gages and found this one http://www.whiteheadperformance.com/products/nissan-oem-fairlady-z-jdm-speedometer-gauge-datsun-260z-280z/ which I guess is series II, I agree it looks tricky but spending $350.00 - $400.00 on it won't make the car go faster and the speedo we have now is light years ahead of what we used previously so all is good.

 

With regard to the suspension, the last pic of the car is with the engine in but not radiator and fluid however that won't make much difference so new springs are in order, the suspension set up has been covered in some detail earlier in the thread but I guess it's a fair way back now so in short the cross member mod has been done, all corners are rose jointed and fully adjustable for camber, caster and toe so we're not expecting any geometry challenges we can't overcome but I guess time will tell.

 

The tyres we're running are 225x45/16 and while I'm not sure of the offset the guards have been rolled to accommodate them.

 

d3cOy can you post a pic of your car or direct us to a pic for comparison?

 

Cheers

Dad 

[d3c0y]

Wasn't having ago about the screws just pointing it out in case you didn't know.

I was supposed to type "I know you probably don't care, but I'm a stickler for that stuff" must have accidentally deleted it sorry. I gathered from your posts you knew what you were talking about, sorry i didn't convey it better.

 

 

Of course you have the engine in lol, how could i forget that! It was on the last page... 

Mine sits a little nose up with the king springs too, but i'm with you i think they should be nose down. Just looks better if anything.

After looking at the photos they look about the same imo. I think all those extra parts will make more of a difference than you think too. In the picture it doesnt have a windscreen, bonnet, guards, front spoiler etc which will add up to a decent amount.

 

 

What spring rate did you end up going for? I attached a pic of my front spring for comparison for you.

 

 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/894914_508270652567904_604208868_o.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grandad]

Hi d3cOy

 

Your ride height looks similar to ours but ours is wound right down so it's as low as it can go currently, I'm not sure the extra bits will add all that much weight, the screen is only slightly forward of centre and the bonnet and bumpers are glass so not much weight there.

 

The springs are KST250 so 250 lbs per square inch, I weigh 80kgs I stood on the front of the car today and measured the drop at 8cm, so if the remaining bits including fluids come in at close to that the ride height will only drop 8cm which is still too high for fully unwound.

 

Your car looks very tidy and straight, I like the pic from the rear.

 

Cheers

Dad

[d3c0y]

Thanks It has it's fair share of bits and piece that need fixing up but it's getting there. That's a pretty old photo now and has changed a lot since then. It's currently on stands with no suspension or drive train in it lol. Next time it sees the light of day it will be flared with 16x9.5 wats 

 

 

I haven't heard of many zeds running the same springs front and rear and 250lbs sounds quite soft for a track car in my opinion.

 

 

How much travel does the shock have on full low? Can you just cut some coils off the spring to give you more adjustment and see where you want it? Then you can order some new springs the correct length. Have you checked the bump travel with no spring on, to check that your strut tube has been sectioned to the correct length?

 

 

 

 

[Whittie]

The springs are 250Ib front and 300Ib rear, which is over 50Ib higher all around than it used to have.

 

Despite having a cage you have to remember that zeds are not all that rigid and the tyres, whilst being semi's, are not full slicks so it is possible to go too hard. The car is also significantly lighter than a standard zed, which will drop spring rates. We'll try this setup and see how it goes, but the suspension setup is the same as a number of local tarmac rally zeds and they all seem to go well.

 

The struts have not been sectioned, but they have had the top hat replaced with a solid plate, so there is ~1-2inchs (less front, more rear) more travel gained there.

 

What I will do is get the car on the road, get the springs settled in and then measure ride height and threaded collar section length. I will then order springs that put the adjustment nut about 50% up the adjustment length at the required ride height. That will give room up and down to adjust ride height.

 

A lower ride height front than the rear looks good, is slightly more aerodynamic (less lift) and induces more front traction than rear. Having stiffer rear springs and sway bars already, we may end up with a level ride height to get the right balance, but that will come with time and setup

[Grandad]

Hi All

 

The latest target is to present the car in the ELITE PAVILLION at Motorvation mid January next year, there's no guaranty that it'll be accepted but that's now the goal and to that end the car is once again at a comfortable working height in it's new home and good to go.

 

Cheers

Dad

[d3c0y]

The springs are 250Ib front and 300Ib rear, which is over 50Ib higher all around than it used to have.

 

 

Yeah that makes sense and your plan is what i was thinking.

 

 

[Cozza]

Hey Guys

Coming along beautifully. I enjoy seeing the effort that goes into this build. Wish I could find the enthusiasm you guys have.

Dad your detailing work is awesome. It sounds like you could write up a great sticky on 'how to clean and polish anything automotive'

In regards to your ride height, did you tighten the suspension bushes whilst the suspension was loaded?

I remember reading somewhere (FSM probably) that the control arm bushes should only be tightened once the car is back on the ground.

Dont know if it would make much difference to the height but just a thought.

 

Keep up the good work.

Mick

[Grandad]

Hi All

 

Cozza, thanks for your kind comments yes I probably could write a detailing sticky I've been involved with show cars on and off most of my life also I owned Car Care WA for quite a few years and had up to 38 detailers on the road, I took it on myself to test all product (particularly polish) I have thrown an enormous amount of well known and in some cases expensive product in the bin because it simply doesn't work or live up to its hype.

 

While we're on the polish subject I found P21s available locally and also on ebay which is cheaper.  http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR4.TRC0.A0.Xp21s&_nkw=p21s&_sacat=0&_from=R40

 

I've given the suspension quite a bit of thought and made an executive decision to leave the rear as it is partly because it's a PITA to remove with the half shafts lock wired in place but the front will come out for shorter springs.

 

Here's a trap for the unwary, I had considered that Will would have tightened everything when he installed it but not so, the lower control arm bolts on the drivers side were barely more than finger tight and the passenger side had one completely missing, interestingly they are the only bolts I hadn't checked but no harm done.

 

For competition these are tidy enough but not for Motorvation so I will give them a thorough clean and touch up anyway.

 

You may remember I noticed that something had been touching the extractors when I was painting them.

 

I decided to sit them in place to see what I could find, it certainly gets crowded when they're fitted.

 

It's touching the engine mount bracket but it should be easy enough to fix with a small angle grinder, I'm glad I found it before it created a hole.

 

Cheers

Dad

[Grandad]

Hi All

 

Today has been a good day! :)

 

I've learned more about coil springs than I ever thought I needed to know when after all I only want to lower the front ride height a bit, there was a time when to lower a cars suspension I'd simply remove the springs take them to a friendly mechanic who had an oxy set and cut a few coils off or if I couldn't be bothered removing them I'd just have him apply oxy to them in situ and let them sag to the required height....Job done....How things have changed.

 

Today I contacted Steve the Guru at King Springs in Qld who I must say was most helpful even tho he was technical enough to challenge my comprehension at times  

 

In simple terms there currently appear to be two types of springs available, progressive and linear, we have the progressive version which makes sense to me as the top soft part of the spring absorbs small impact shocks effectively smoothing the ride before the main part of the spring is engaged with larger bumps or aggressive cornering whereas the linear type are at full strength right from the start potentially creating a rougher ride at cruise off track.

 

As the discussion with Steve progressed it appeared to me that maybe the threaded conversion to the strut should have been set lower and when I mentioned that the conversion was done by (Wilkinson Suspension) the local King Springs agent I was referred back to them so off I went struts in hand.

 

Wilkinson Suspension also couldn't have been more helpful they recognized the struts immediately as being off a Z but questioned the 250lb springs saying they usually use 200lb ones (which is what we used to run), when I suggested that the threaded section was set too high they mentioned wheel clearance issues that arise if it is set lower but with the offset created by the thick Commodore rotors we run that is not an issue but they probably didn't know that when they did the conversion and I suspect they were also not aware of our weight reduction so in the end we have a strut set up for a stock weight Z with 200lb springs on a light weight car with same length 250lb springs...bit of a no brainer really.

 

Clearly I had no grounds to claim the mod was done incorrectly so didn't go there as the discussion focussed on shorter springs with keepers, when I said I preferred progressive springs they explained that the extension on a progressive spring does much the same as a linear spring with a keeper just a little better and a little cheaper and they allow fittment of longer springs where required, they were happy to fully credit and re stock our progressive springs and supply shorter ones with keepers so it was a done deal.

 

Here's what we had, you can see the progressive thinning of the spring at the top.

 

 

Here's what we have now, it's not quite as good in my opinion but we'll live with it, the struts have not been torqued so I can tidy up and paint the exposed bits.

 

 

I dropped in on the plater to inspect the window support brackets that have spent the best part of a week soaking in acid, they're not perfect but removing all the rust will probably destroy them so I've decided I'll fit the windows then give them a generous coating of fish oil.

 

 

I also dropped in on our friendly motor trimmer today and put him on notice that the Z is coming soon, I also arranged for a home visit so the front A pillars can be trimmed before the dash goes in and finally how's todays acquisition as a sign I'm confident the end is neigh.

 

Yes it truly has been a good day! :)

 

Cheers

Dad

[Grandad]

Hi All

 

I'm focusing on the engine bay currently and got fed up looking at the tacky cam cover so decided to do something about it.

 

First thing is to remove it and clean off all the gasket goo then polish the stand out bits with a small buff pad on the drill, you're forgiven for thinking I'm having a love affair with Brasso I would normally use Autosol but can't find it quickly.

 

Brasso brings it up pretty well but to finish off I used a rouge similar to what a jeweller would use and a new pad.

 

Now it's time for a liberal coat of wrinkle paint.

 

Now to remove the paint from the polished bits before it dries too much, I like to use a gun wash for this from a separate container not direct from the can so it doesn't get contaminated.

 

Now I'll just let the paint do it's wrinkle thing, I'll go over the polished bits when it's dry and I want to give it a coat of gloss clear but I'm not sure the clear is compatible with the wrinkle paint so I'll test it on something else first.

 

Cheers

Dad

[Riceburner]

Nice, it'll look great. Best part is no polishing!

[benny]

you really need to get that sucker in the oven/out in the sun/ even heatgun otherwise it wont work properly.

[d3c0y]

While the struts are out you can probably swap to smaller bump stops to give yourself some more travel too.

 

 

I found this excellent suspension article on the MCA suspension website that goes over setting up coilovers which seems pretty relevant here:

http://mcablog.com/?p=409

 

[Grandad]

Hi Benny

I know I'm at the low end of the operating range for wrinkle paint but I just checked it and it appears to be working fine I'll check it in the morning and if necessary give it another coat, because the paint is so slow drying another coat should reactivate it a bit.

 

Hi d3cOy

Bump stops were part of the discussion at Wilkinsons the other day, the ones we have appear to be optimum for our purpose they are progressive rubber and as short as we should reasonably go, the shocks are set up so they won't bottom out causing damage so if we find we're hitting the bump stops too much we have two options first is to raise the ride height and the second is to re-engineer the struts, I think we'll be fine but as always, time will tell.

 

Cheers

Dad

[luvemfast]

I'm going to agree with Jake here. 

From memory, Neil Cartledge ran 400lb/450lb on a track car that would have been lighter than yours. Then he lightened further and dropped down to 300lb/350lb then.

Given his history with developing Z's on the track. Your spring rate seems too low.

[Riceburner]

I'm going to agree with Jake here. 

From memory, Neil Cartledge ran 400lb/450lb on a track car that would have been lighter than yours. Then he lightened further and dropped down to 300lb/350lb then.

Given his history with developing Z's on the track. Your spring rate seems too low.

 

Interesting Simon, stiffer in the rear seems odd to me, Was he running slicks?

 

I wouldn't run any more than 350lb on a road driven car, my 340lb fronts are very rough on our crappy roads.

[luvemfast]

Sorry. You're right Gareth.

I didn't mean that to be front/rear.

The stiffer is on fronts.

 

Neil's wasn't a road car. But it does still hold the PI lap record for an L series powered Z, set 20 years ago.

[Grandad]

Hi All

 

Thanks for the chat guys, this is good info for us to refer to when the car is going.

 

Cheers

Dad

[Whittie]

Neil's wasn't a road car.

 

Everything is a comprimise when you start trying to make a comfortable ride. Tarmac Rallies also dictate softer springs to deal with poor road conditions. I said it before, but reiterate that semi-slicks aren't as stiff as full slicks so it's easy to over spring them as well.

 

We'll drive it and see how it goes, I think we're on the money for our intended purposes tho.

[Grandad]

Hi All

 

When the car was up on the hoist I noticed a few things at the back I wasn't happy with, the mustache bar mount, hand brake cable and rotors so I've done something about them.

 

Not entirely happy with the hand brake cable so I'll revisit it later.

 

Time to tidy the rotors up a bit, I habitually paint the outer face if it is visible through the wheels but this time I've really out done myself and done the inside as well so they have a new look.

 

The struts have been tidied up and fitted for hopefully the final time.

 

Here's the front before the rotor was painted and machined.

 

It won't stay this way for long but at least it's good for now.

 

And the rear.

 

Finally I feel like I'm making some real progress

 

Cheers

Dad

[Grandad]

Hi All

 

you really need to get that sucker in the oven/out in the sun/ even heatgun otherwise it wont work properly.

 

You were right benny, this has turned into a way bigger job than it really needed to be and a clear case of less haste more speed.

 

Clearly this didn't work.

 

I tested clear lacquer over wrinkle to see if they're compatible and found out they are I'm using gloss clear which gives the wrinkle a little extra sheen.

 

I finally had to resort to the heat gun to get the wrinkle happening properly and while it's not perfect I've run out of puff for this job so it's as good as it's going to get.

 

I had the motor trimmer inspect the car the other day and put him on notice that the car is almost ready for him and he said he will be ready for it in about three weeks so it's booked in.

 

Cheers

Dad

[Grandad]

Hi All

 

I did a trial fit of the extractors with a rag over the engine mount to prevent scratching of the extractors but found I couldn't remove it because the extractors were wedged against the mount so out they came again.

 

I can't imagine the extractors were that tight against the engine mount previously, so considering that the engine came back from the builder with the mount attached I decided to see if there was any adjustment left so took the engine weight off the mounts with a jack and found almost 3cm in movement.

 

A refit found they were still touching and the grinding I did was slightly in the wrong position.

 

The extractors also touch the breather pipe so I decided to fix that as well while I'm at it.

 

A bit more targeted grinding and touch up painting.

 

That'll do it.

 

A few taps with a ball pane hammer and this one's sorted.

 

 

I'll re fit them temporarily now and work out how to create a floor heat shield.

 

Cheers

Dad

[Grandad]

Hi All

 

I've been making a bit of progress but after a close look at the available space between the extractors and floor have decided to give up on the idea of an ali heat shield if heat becomes a problem I'll use exhaust heat wrap.

 

At the beginning of the rebuild Whittie decided to have the car trimmed in Alcantara because it's extremely light weight and has a suede look and feel that is sensational, I got our friendly motor trimmer do do a house call last week to trim the A pillars so now the dash can go back in, I have a sparkie coming next week so that's when I should have the car going, it's booked in with the trimmer third week of November after that all that's left will be windscreen and exhaust.

 

There was a time when I considered my cars were incomplete without Fiam air horns and MoMo steering wheel, as you can guess a MoMo steering wheel was one of our first mods, Whittie was rummaging through some of my old car stuff a little while back and found some Fiam horns I have that came off a ex NSW Police chaser Mini Clubman GT I had in the early 80s when he wasn't even a twinkle in his mothers eye, on sight he said I'll have those and so I've been cleaning them up and fitting them which has brought back a lot of great Mini memories, it won't surprise you to hear that I used to campaign the Mini with the NSW MG Car Club, in the year that I won Concourse with my MG, with the Mini I won my class in the inter club competition and took out the MGCC sporting championship which came with an impressive perpetual trophy I was able to keep for a year and I displayed proudly on my mantle piece, it had previously been won by Colin Bond which of course was pointed out to all who visited at that time. Anyway that's enough memory lane back to the job at hand.

 

Original horns cleaned up ready for paint.

 

If I plant these will they reproduce?

 

Compressor tidied up and ready to go again.

 

On a slightly different note (pardon the pun) the alternator is in and interestingly the old fan belt was way too long so I had to find a shorter one to fit which wasn't difficult but my concern is the pulley diameter on the new balancer is significantly smaller then the BMW one it replaces I now need to compare it to a standard Zed balancer if it is smaller then the gearing will be altered I'm not worried about the alternator my concern is that the water pump will not spin and pump at the rate it should potentially leading to overheating problems.

 

I decided it's time to fit the grill and indicators which I thought would be very straight forward except the brackets I made are not marked so I was guessing which way they went, fortunately everything is being photographed for this thread so all it took was a quick look at some pics and it was done.

 

I think this car's getting some mean attitude.

 

Cheers

Dad

[Grandad]

Hi All

 

Still managing to get a bit done everyday but running into a few small unexpected issues, a mobile sparkie came to look at it yesterday to size up the job and will be here Monday to do what's required before it goes off to the trimmer.

 

I've been playing with bolts on the motor to make it look a bit prettier.

 

I did my normal port match thing to the manifold gasket with Whitties Dremel which really made it an easy task.

 

Here it is half done.

 

I know I should never assume anything but I have always thought that the inlet manifold was matched to the head during work done by the previous owner but I had forgotten that we had extra work done last time we had the motor rebuilt so I checked the gasket against the manifold and found it doesn't match, the miss match is not as severe as the pic suggests, I've allowed a margin because the gasket doesn't locate accurately on the studs so it's not possible to know exactly where the gasket will sit when the manifolds are bolted on.

 

In a perfect world it would have been port matched while everything was apart this time but I'm not taking the head off to do it so I got some bearing blue but that proved unsuccessful.

 

I then matched a spare gasket perfectly but it could not be accurately located on the manifold so that was also unsuccessful.

 

I was discussing it with the guys at the workshop and someone suggested trying to use a scribe from the inside so here's what I did.

 

It doesn't need much off but I guess every little bit helps.

 

Cheers

Dad