New to it, looking for know how

[Noblesseoblige]

Hey guys I love Datsun 240 and 260 coupes and soon with the aid of this form, I hope to buy my dream car, to the best of my limited knowledge the Datsun 260z coupe is faster then the 240z? Because of the larger motor and newer components, I'f I was going to build one up which is better for ease of parts, reliability, tunability and you know general parts and stuff. I also want some advice on what you think I'd pay for a ok rust wise car that needs body work and interior work, but is structurally ok? I'd really appreciate some advice on all this guys, please don't be rude either regards noblesse

[Retro Z]

I believe the 240z was actually faster at the time of release do to lack of emissions and slightly lighter weight.

 

If you were going to build one i'd say the 260z is better as they are stronger, cheaper and a little more common than the earlier 240z. Most parts are interchangable between the 240z, 260z and even 280zx.

 

Just look for the cleanest example you can find whether its a 240 or 260..they are practically the same car.

 

I'd say for an 'ok' car 4k-10k depending if complete, engine, rust etc.

Bargains do pop up ocassionally but you have to be quick as they usually sell within 48hrs.

[dat2kman]

And,,, the Datsun Sports 2000 was faster than the 240Z!

The older the car, the harder the work, time effort and parts availability.

 

Start off with say, a 260Z 2+2, get a feel for things Datsun.

If not, a 280ZX, can be a good entry point.

 

Depending on what you want to achieve, purchase two books,

"How to Modify your Datsun L series"

And " How to make your car handle" that one is by Fred Puhn, not Datsun specific, but very very usefull

 

Read these, then spend some 20 hours or so goung back through various threads on here.

You'll be an expert, just like all of us, in no time!

Winning!!!

[260DET]

260Z > 240Z simply because it was an improved 240Z. Better, stronger body particularly.

[d3c0y]

You forgot heavier,uglier interior and worth less money too

[nizm0zed]

Heavier due to a stiffer chassis, so not really any loss there.

Uglier interior? the only major difference is the dash and its fairly minor, but i can see your point there.

As for worth less, yep, you pick them up cheaper because the 2+2 tends to bring all the 260z's down in overall average price, however the 260z coupe is actually smaller delivered numbers than the 240z, so it 'should' be worth more due to rarity.

 

personally i am of the opinion that if you can get yourself in the position to get a coupe over a 2+2 then you should buy it!

However, 'any' zed is better than no zed hands down 8)

[NZeder]

Just remember guys that not all 260z 2 seaters are stronger. The 74 260z 2 seater is basically the same shell as the 72/73 240z with just different doors (windows regulators move the crank about 1" forward (assume this is to make room for the different door trim/handle)

 

 

[Patch]

Welcome to the forum noblesse,

What is better for you depends what you want to do with the car, but in standard form this may help.

The biggest difference you will notice if you get a chance to drive both is the 240z has a shorter stroke crank which makes the car fly and throws you back in the seat, likes to rev and is great fun to drive, the car will do 125mph standard and runs out of horsepower not revs, small mods brings it up to 145mph and 6.0 sec 0-60mph going by my book. It has racing history a nicer dash, tail lights and lighter car, better carbs no immersion standards to comply with, no air con and think only came in manual gearbox , more a car for somebody who likes to drive and can drive, hang on and have fun by yourself with a big smile on your face, better resale value according to Redbook, will cost more to buy.

 

The 260z has the same bore but larger stroke crank,huge difference in performance, pig to drive, badly made carbs that are worth nothing to sell, more suited to a family man taking the wife and kids for a drive in the country with your arm out the window driving with automatic and air con, but nowhere near as fun to drive. lot heavier car with a motor that is worthless to sell, came with smog gear and immersion standards. Car is cheaper to buy, came out as 2 seater's and 2+2 which can carry adults in the back with no legs, very heavy in the steering, 2+2 are worth very little to buy.

 

The 280zx has the same stroke as the 260 but bigger bore, just a big pig of a motor and used for the 4x4 Nissan patrols, I have no idea why some one would want to put one of these into a 240z. Mind you all the parts are interchangeable and have read you can make a 280 quick with a 240 crank and rods. or spendings lots of money to get the excitement back, the 280zx is a limo on wheels in a sports car body.

Nissan went down hill from the 240z and was not until the 300z twin turbo that they bought the same performance  and fun back.

 

All motors came with forged steel cranks and good rods , the 240z has huge racing history and will be the more collectable one to buy.

If you check Redbook you will see a 240z is worth 3 times its new price while a 260z is worth the same as new price.

 

If you want to modify and go RB motor etc, better to go for 260z.

 

How much to get you into one, I see you are on the Gold coast I have what you want as a project car 240z 100% complete for 3.5k which I have owned since 1986.

[peter t]

Nothing wrong with a 2+2 . At least I can drive it all the time and not hide it in the shed that's if it is going at all.

[Patch]

I agree Peter, nothing wrong with  a 2+2,  I have both, but both in the shednow and been off the road for many years, but when the 2+2 was going it went far better when I put the 240 motor in it, lots of good times taking the wife and kids for a drive in the country., but it is how the market sees them, I am sure they will come back up again, like I have said before my lady hated the heavy steering and didn't want it back on the road.

I still like the 2+2 ,tell you what Peter, I would swap my 3 zds for your 1.

[peter t]

No way m8, I couldn't stand going another four years without driving the Z every weekend. My steering is not so bad, you just have to make sure the wheels are going around first before turning. Also I only have slightly larger wheels and tyres than standard. That might make a difference. Having withdrawal probs atm with the rain as can't take the Z out for a drive and its the weekend.

[Patch]

I will throw in the 306 convertible as well, so you are not stuck without a car, great car for weekends like now. 

[peter t]

Don't think so.

[d3c0y]

Heavy steering in a Z is 99% of the time due to people putting the wrong offset wheels on them. My zed with 16x8s and 225/50/16s didnt have heavy steering.

[Patch]

With the heavy steering I am talking about the 2+2, we had the same wheels on both cars, 240 she could drive fine, she bitched like hell about the 2+2.

[d3c0y]

Something in the steering or suspension must have been warn out. What was the offset of the wheels you were running?

[DreamZproject]

Wow Patch, not much love for 260's!

 

Note that some of the earlier 260's are essentialy 240's badged differently, plus (in the chassis anyway) the

extra weight was reinforcing to address some weakness issues in the 240.

 

240, 260, no real difference. It will be easier to find yourself a cheaper 260 because there should be less rust

considering they are slightly newer. They ARE less desireable, hence cheaper than the 240's because the 240's

were pre any sort of emissions testing so you could run pretty much anything on them BUT in saying that, 260

pre '76 have virtually no emissions to worry about anyway, so not a huge issue unless you are looking for a

race car.

 

Look for either, the one with less rust wins hands down. If you don't like 2+2, fair enough! I don't like the look

as much, so i went for a 2 seater 260 myself, otherwise, if you dont mind the extra bit of weight and a slightly

different look, you can halve your bill of buying (or double the quality) as they just aren't worth as much due

to the popularity of the 2 seater.

 

"The 280zx has the same stroke as the 260 but bigger bore, just a big pig of a motor and used for the 4x4

Nissan patrols, I have no idea why some one would want to put one of these into a 240z."

 

Cheap cheap cheap power, almost no weight gain, optional engine for chassis, tourque, more bang for buck

with future power modifications etc.

The only reason NOT to go to an L28 is if you are concerned about originality, want to race the car in a particular

class, or don't give a stuff about power.

saying that the 280zx's engine is like the L28 from a patrol is like saying a L24 puts out 300hp... Well it can...

but the internals are setup differently to better suit the individual application.

[Patch]

I have tried different wheels and tires on both cars, as I say, nothing wrong with the 240z it is only the 2+2, nothing wrong with suspension or steering, it would be more the fact the car is 300kg's heavier and then has the capability to carry 2 extra 100kg people using the same steering rack.so with passengers you could easily be 500kgs more, so why wouldn't it be heavier.

I had no problems with it, it was only the lady did, as my work ute was a MK patrol which she couldn't drive at all,  now that has heavy steering.

 

[Patch]

"Wow Patch, not much love for 260's!"

When I first came here first car was a 260c wagon owned it for many years and used as a work hack with all my welding gear in it,

When I bought the 240z in 1986 it was fast it was fun, rust got to it so a full restore took place, while this was happening I bought a 2+2 with a 260 motor in it, it was alright but no where near as fun to drive and a bit disappointed, I had a recon 240z motor sitting there while I was doing the body work on the 240, well just by changing that made the car fun to drive again, so yes to me I didn't like the stoke of the 260, to me it was a pig, later on I bought a 280c car and yes that was a bigger pig, I only bought the car for the motor as a project I was working on and I had read that you can make them rev by swamping the 240 crank and rods, so was an idea for later. This was in the years when a 280zx were worth a lot of money and not an option then.

 

("I have no idea why some one would want to put one of these into a 240z."

 

"Cheap cheap cheap power, almost no weight gain, optional engine for chassis, torque, more bang for buck

with future power modifications etc.

The only reason NOT to go to an L28 is if you are concerned about originality, want to race the car in a particular

class, or don't give a stuff about power.")

 

Now I am from a different school hp or torque is not everything, you can have a lot more fun with a motor that can rev, when I was 18 I had a GS1000s one of the fastest bikes in 1978 yet a little RG250 would eat it on the hills.

I spent 10 years racing 2 stoke bikes and like the feeling a small stoke gives you, you will eat big stokes motors any day.

Today I have a Renault Scenic van it has a 2.0 lt motor high toque bigger stoke crank  and a 306 convertible which also has a 2.0lt motor with a short stoke, the van is great for taking the wife and dog away for the weekend and every day car, you can pull up the hill in 4th, the 306 is a fun toy which me and the dog go for a drive around the hills for a bit of fun, she doesn't like it, yet she wanted it for her, it is too hard for her to drive as you have to drive it like a little race car and heaps of changing gears, she would stall it being in the wrong gear, instead of 4th you need 2nd and finds the clutch to heavy, hands down the car is a lot more fun to drive.

 

I also own a Harley touring bike with a 1340cc 2 cylinder high toque revs to 5k great for taking the wife for a comfortable ride or trip away, for a play toy for myself I have a ZXR750cc 4 cylinder short stoke weapon which revs to 12.5k and takes a lot of riding to keep it in it's rev range,top speed of 240kmh,3.6sec 0-100kmh, you take that for a ride around the hills and that brings a bigger smile than the high toque bike does, so it is horses for courses I have had a few V8's over the years but would prefer a short stoke sports car over a big V8 any day,

To get that feeling out of a 280 motor you have to spend a lot of money, bigger the stoke the easier to blow apart so you need money to hold it together.

That is my opinion on the matter, but that  is why you need to know what you want, fun or transport.

 

[DreamZproject]

I think all of those comparisons are ridiculously biased... comparing a van to a semi sports car and a harley to a sports bike...

The engine needs to have more tourque for these two because they weigh so much and have very little need for high RPM

power.

 

You can rev the crap out of an L28 if you wanna chuck a crazy cam in there... Cams are pretty cheap. I think its just a bit

misleading to say that the L24 is superior simply because it revs higher. By this merit a rotary is the best engine in the

world. Most people like hp and torque. I am in the middle and like hp. I really cant stand Falcodores and the like. They

weigh a ton so they have limited handling characteristics, BUT they would be a ton of fun to drive simply for the power.

240's and 260's weigh near on nothing compared to cars these days and yeah, you're going to add a little more weight

to the car putting in a L24, but surely it wouldn't be more than 30kg?

 

I've heard people complain that a car might have heaps of power but it has no torque so its not so great for the streets,

which i can understand, each to their own. I'd prefer more power over ease of driving. But to prefer more RPM over power

is a rather unusual bias.

 

I get it high RPM's are fun, i have an MR2 that makes diddely squat under 3k, has peak torque at 5k and max power just

over 7k. Hell yeah I'd prefer this over a similar 2L engine that put out the same power at a lower rpm, but trading rpm for

more power just makes sense. (When it doesn't add a ton of weight)

[Noblesseoblige]

This form system is psychotic how do I post on my own link, it jumps to the next ??

[Noblesseoblige]

Do you think anyone would trade this for a project 240z??

It's a ta22

[d3c0y]

What sort of money do you want for the TA22 and what's been done to it? Shoot me a PM

 

 

Patch they aren't 300kg heavier and you arent putting all of that weight over the front wheels. I had a 2+2 and the steering felt the same as a 2 seater.

 

 

There is so much bull shit in this thread now...

[Retro Z]

I agree with Decoy definately not 300kg heavier. According to my Haynes manual its up to 140kg heavier. The 240z and 2+2 had a different ratio rack but otherwise i felt no difference on the examples i had compared to my 240z. I got 275/40 tyres upfront and i reckon my ep91 starlet steering is heavier...

[Patch]

I got those figures of Tare weight: 1,350 kg (2,980 lb from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_S30

If the 2+2 is not heavy in the steering can you explain why the net is full of people putting in power steering, seems silly doesn't it if not needed, my lady has said if I put that car on the road she will not drive it, the steering is too heavy, you will never change that.

 

I did a bit of research to back up this comparison.

As to compare the Renault Scenic and the 306, both motors are 2.0l Renault puts out 101 kw at 5500rpm 188 at 3750rpm bore is 82.7 x 93 car weighs 1290kgs

306 Peugeot convertible 2.0 l  motor 100 kw at 5500rpm and 187nm at 4200rpm bore and stoke is 86 x86 car weight is 1270 kgs.

 

So here we have two cars that have the same size motor they weight the same, same hp same nm  the only difference is bore and stoke the Renault is a good daily diver for a family man at 82.7 bore x 93 stoke , yet the 306 is a fun sports car that puts a smile on your face while DRIVING it around the hills bore and stoke of 86mm = short stokes = FUN but you need to be able to DRIVE to be able to have FUN with it.