Best bang for your buck L28 mods?

[bullzed]

Hey everyone,

 

I bought the shell of an '82 280zx and the L28 from a nissan patrol. I know there has been some work done to the motor such as a lumpy cam, I know I have an N42 head but I don't know where to find the block number, i've looked everywhere! 

 

The engine had it sump changed to fit over the power steering set-up and has since then had extractors and twin SU's put on and the results are pretty decent.

 

Haven't had a chance to dyno it yet as it still has a few issues before it's registered here.

 

I was wondering from your experiences, what have been the best dollar per HP modifications you've done to date?

 

Keep in mind that I'm on a pretty limited budget as I'm still at school  :-\

 

Cheers

 

Zac

[luvemfast]

Given your age, Zac. Now I don't want to sound condesending.

BUT

The best bang for buck improvement would be a defensive driving course, then an advanced driving course.

Many a man has blamed their car for lack of performance, when the thing holding them back is themselves.

 

You may find that the Patrol L28 is built differently to the Z's. The cam may be ground for low revving torque. I cannot confirm this though, maybe someone else can. (Hence the may being used by me)

 

What induction are you going to use? Stock EFI, Patrol single carby or twin carbies?

Exhaust and a good tune should do you for now.

Money may be better spent on suspension and brakes, work out the handling while you are learning the car.

Just my 2cents

Simon

[Scoota G]

Pleanty of info on this site Buddy Make sure you use the Electronic ignition as well, good value for money.

[bullzed]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

Simon, I've got twin SU's on it at the moment as I said before, not sure of the throat width though.

 

I have noticed that the low rev torque is impressive (in my standards) and it doesn't seem to lose a noticeable amount of power as it climbs. That said I've never taken it over 6k.

 

I've been looking at a rear suspension set-up such as heavy duty Pedders struts because of the signature 'z-squat'. The front struts are new with king springs all around.

 

It has a 2.5'' exhaust and decent extractors on it at the moment. I wanted to find a cheapish LSD setup just for safety's sake.

 

I realise my age may be a factor in the responses I get, it's understandable to say the least.

 

I hope I can show that I'm not one of those kids who feel the need to show off their power. You don't need to if you have the stance, the looks and the sound, and Z's do that for me.

[Scoota G]

Hey, weast your Ingri vedy good, Me Rikey.

[luvemfast]

I've got twin SU's on it at the moment as I said before

My apologies for not reading your first post properly.

As I said though, not trying to be condesending.

Maybe would have been better asking what you plan on doing with the car? Motorsport, shows, daily driver or boy racer? I automatically think of track work, so once again, apologise for the assumption.

 

As Mark said, fit an electronic dizzy.

Sounds like there has been some work done, but you're unsure of what and the specs. So maybe just get it going properly and you'll soon find area's you want to improve.

[bullzed]

Hahah, Mark.   

 

No problems Simon, I realise people don't approve of my age when it comes to these subjects sometimes, I guess I should be lurking a bit more first.

 

I was looking into making it a track car but also doubling as a daily driver which means not too heavy on fuel consumption.

 

I'll look into electronic ignition and I'm aiming to get it registered/tuned/dynoed within the next 2 months atleast.

 

Could you tell me the location of the block number (N42, F54 etc.), I've looked everywhere! 

 

Any other suggestions would be much appreciated.

[luvemfast]

Could you tell me the location of the block number (N42, F54 etc.), I've looked everywhere! 

Try behind the passenger side engine mount.

[bullzed]

Thanks Simon

 

I just did a check. I have a F54 block with dished pistons, N47 head with a lumpy cam (still have to find these specs).

 

N36 intake manifold with 3.25'' flat top SU clones. Not sure of the throat size.

 

Is an electronic dizzy a difficult installation/expensive?

[Whittie]

I was looking into making it a track car but also doubling as a daily driver which means not too heavy on fuel consumption.

 

I started at 14, so don't worry about the age there buddy!

 

My first pass, assuming only what you've shared in this thread (little) would be to check fluids and condition of brakes and suspension components. Check all the rubbers on all moving parts, bearing, etc. replace with new parts and nolathane for bushes would be a good start. There is a few pay checks.

 

Next, ss stated, how about starting with what the car can do as is?! Until you have reached the limits of the car (I'm not assuming here, but there is no info to say either way) it's pretty useless trying to improve things.

 

Everything you have mentioned is a good place to start. For me, if I had to upgrade, it would be making sure the front and rear of the car are balanced. You said the front struts/springs had been changed and only the rear springs? WHY?! what about roll bars, is there one on the front but not rear? As for an LSD, you're wasting your money! I ran an open diff and didn't even notice a need to change until I'd done plenty of other things on the car. Don't start here for 'safety' start with knowledge of your/car's ability.

 

"why" is such a great place to start, it will drive you insan, so check out everything on the car and question why/why not things were done.

 

My best advice, if I'm allowed to give it, get the car to a motorkhana and find out what needs to be done. The motor sounds strong, but dished pistons is going to cost BIG horsepower, but also cost big dollar to rebuild a motor, so, start at a track and work out your limits, the cars limits, and then what you think is the best way to move forward. Equally likely that suspension/brakes/drive train/seat/steering require work before the motor.

 

PS, forget cheap and or good on fuel, you've chosen the wrong car. I don't mean to be a dick, but I thought the same things and my car STILL drinks 18L/100km, regardless of how I tried to control things. Fast zeds are too old to be cheap

 

To get back on topic for your original question - $ vs. HP:

 

Turbo. period. end discussion. full stop.

 

You CANNOT compare NA vs Turbo power/cost for an L28, the turbo will win every time. However, you're still looking at like 5k to get a turbo install tuned and running. Mind you, that's like 350+ HP, enough to kill yourself with for sure, but that's the fun bit

[NZeder]

Good advice already stated here but here is my feedback.

 

Age does not factor in the comment. Just to agree with Simon "invest in good driver training first as these will be with you no matter what car you modify/own/drive"

 

Now when I first got my 260z 2 seater some 17 years ago at 21 it was basically stock. The only suspension mods were some Ford offset camber mounts in the front cross member to align things correctly. The only drive line mod was a clutch pack LSD. So that was how I purchased the car.

 

I did many club events like this ie trails/track time/motorkarna etc. All this help me learn the car more

 

I first upgrade was not to the engine (infact I still have this engine and it is still stock just on the floor of the shed now). I purchased a complete suspension setup from a track car that the owner was turning back into a 100% road car.

 

This lowered the car upgraded the front swap bar and gave me koni adjustables with lovell springs.

 

Result?? Well the car was transformed. Again no engine upgrades and the car was just great on the road.

 

My last 240z had a big $$ engine (purchase the car with it) but nothing special suspension or brakes (stock brakes, koni reds, and unknown weak springs). Engine had good pull and was strong but this was all let down by the suspension. So that had to get some minor work to fix the issues. Once this was done again a differnet car.

 

The point I have gotten more fun/enjoyment from suspension mods than power upgrades. Once you are happy with the handling then move to more power/engine mods. This might lead to more changes in suspension.

 

My 4 cents worth (4 cents of NZ funny money to you ozzies lol)

[bullzed]

Thanks for all your replies guys.

 

I have decided to work on drivetrain and suspension first. I forgot to say that I've put in all new nolathane bushes through suspension and the sway bars. I have new heavy duty springs all round but the rear shocks need to be beefed up as the rear is ridiculously soft comparable to the front.

 

On the board now is heavy duty pedders struts on the rear to balance front and rear, upgrading to slotted and drilled disks on the front as I don't want to do a huge conversion to Z32 disks (requiring coilovers on the front but also converting to 5 stud which isn't in my interest as I just spent 800 on new wheels and tyres.) and an electronic ignition upgrade. This should tie me over for a few years.

 

Cheers for your help guys.

 

Zac

[Scando]

On the board now is heavy duty pedders struts on the rear to balance front and rear

 

From my personal experiences I've found pedders shocks to be rubbish.  If it's low budget you're after then I've found Monroe's products to be heaps better than Pedders.  If you can stretch the budget a little further then there's lots of good options out there if you do your research.

[bullzed]

If you can stretch the budget a little further then there's lots of good options out there if you do your research.

 

In my opinion, it's best to do it right the first time, wait that little bit longer for the better product. I'll definitely look into a better shock.

[tbscobraZ]

Best option is EFI opens the door for turbo later on and if you can find a cheap intake is not to hard to do. Before any engine mods what about brakes? Make it stop and turn nicely first. Best of luck.

[Zedman240®]

If you plan on tracking your zed, my list would be

1. tyres

2. brakes

2b. both 1+2 together would be great!

3. suspension

4. seats / harness

5. engine cam, induction etc

6. LSD diff

 

Suspension is third because I assume you have a good setup to begin with not shocks that are worn / rooted or soft saggy original springs. If so, replace before tyres!

 

Further engine mods is when you have reached the limit of your setup; track times are consistent..

[Scottz]

Try the Defensive Driving Course. You will be surprised.

I didn't do my first DDC until 1996. It was great and a lot of fun.

If I had done that before buying my first zed in 1987 I would not have been disqualified twice, smashed up twice, and nearly killed twice. All of which happened in the first 3 years of owning the zed. Plus a lot of $$ lost with fines, repairs, taxis, insurance, etc......

A DDC is cheaper than any of those goodies on your wish list.

I even did a second DDC in 2005 and it was great also.

My bad driving record almost cost me a job. And it was a really good job that later gave me lots of opportunities.

Many employers do pre-checks of prospective employees, and if your job (or possible future job) means you have to do a lot of driving and use leased or rented vehicles, make sure you have a clean record. It will be a big bonus to you as the years go by.

I have had a clean record for 20 years now and think what a fool I was to nearly loose everything.

DDC, try it, try it, try it. No one gave me this advice when I was 19.........Give it a go mate. And then enjoy the cruising and all the late night tinkering with your car.

 

[jamo240]

Hey Zac

 

The advice here is all good in my view. I started with my Z 23 years ago when I also had no money, so couldn't do much. I agree the tyre, brake & suspension mods will yield the most noticeable improvement to the car. As far as engines go, you gotta decide what you want the car to do. For a good road car, you want low end torque and responsiveness over top end power any day. For track work, power may be a greater factor. Factory camshafts are set up to compromise the engine the least where it matters the most, so often they're the best choice for a fun road car. Lumpy cams sound hot and all, but can take the car backwards for road manners. In my current engine (turbo L28, 400 FWHP), I run a standard A grind cam (you can find the grind stamped into the back of the cam...240's had an A grind, whereas you'll probably find F stamped into the back of a patrol L28 cam). I messed around with all sorts of exotic grinds, and they would pick up 15 HP here, and lose 25 over there. I gave the hot cams away in the end and went back to the standard cam...gives the best startup, idle and transition to boost, so keep that in mind...even with NA engines. You will find the block type (eg N42, P90, F54) cast into the LHS of the block, right behind the engine mount boss. N42 is the one to have for the thickest bores...I have one, and the bores were not less than 5mm thick when I had it ultrasonically checked. Not sure it's a big issue for a NA club car though...more of an issue in turbo engines where cylinder pressures get very high. Also, any of the factory Nissan blocks are pretty good quality, and they are not known to give a lot of trouble in road going applications, so don't stress if you don't have one of the 'good' ones. F54 was common in patrols, with the N42 head.

 

You'll hear all sorts of talk about the need for exotic components, and you just gotta think it through in terms of what you actually need. For example, forged pistons are all the rage at the moment (esp in turbo engines)...why, other than being cheap cos they're made in China? I have run factory cast pistons in my turbos for years, and never failed them. If you're consistently revving the engine super hard and you need greater ultimate strength to deal with the reciprocating forces then fine, but if you're running them for their resistance to detonation, then forget it. A cast piston melts in a millisecond, while a forgie will hang on a second or two longer and then do the same thing! They all end up busted if you have a big rattle!

 

Any modification you do, should consider what you're trying to improve, and what compromise you will have to make to get the improvement. If there aren't more ticks than crosses, then don't do the mod!!

 

I will have my turbo engine available for sale soon, as I am going to an RB, so let me know if you want to go the turbo route when the time comes.

 

Cheers

 

Jamo

[DatPilot]

I know its an old topic.

My last dyno for a N/A L24e with factory EVERYTHING was 54kW at the rears (Auto trans too)

Recent tune and install of new 270cc injectors, and a microtech LT-4 fuel only ECU (quite basic, but adequate)

Result was 76kW at the rears!