Hoist Jacking Points

[garvice]

Hey guys.

 

Got a question for those that have or have used a 2 post hoist.

I am wondering where you guys lift the s30s from. The frame rails seem like an obvious point but I have read more then once not to lift from the frame rails.

The crossmember and the rear A frames would be nice to lift from but I don't think the arms on the hoist will reach that far.

 

The hoist that I need to lift from has Asymmetric arms (One arm doesn't reach as far as the other), so from what I can see the front of the car gets the short arms.

[garvice]

Ok, just found this picture in Gaijin's thread.

Looks like he is making it to the rear a arms.

What about the front arm though?

[Riceburner]

He runs a complete sklyline rear end i believe. Mine has been hoisted on a 'panto' hoist if thats the correct name? I haven't heard of the rail warning you describe before......  :-\ Sound like a concern though.

[garvice]

Thought the rear of his car looked a little different. Maybe I should have gone out the garage and had a look before I posted.

So where did you lift from?

 

The things I have heard from about the rails is that people have talked about them crushing under lifting with a jack.

I guess with a hoist it will be spreading the load a bit more.

[NZeder]

I have seen many a flat S30 rails over the years - some from Jacks, Hoists etc others from hitting large things on the road - that also goes for the S130 floor rails. They are not that strong.

 

for supporting on a hoist at the front use the rear of TC mounting point if you want to pickup a good balance point. For the rear the point I have seen used is the factory recommended jack point ie sill with a good rubber block that has a groove to pass around the sill lip thing - seen them get crushed too - never on a zed I purchased or owned just ones I looked at over the years.

[Riceburner]

The 'panto' is kind of like a giant scissor jack or even a motorcycle jack under each sill, it runs the entire length almost and rubber blocks stop the seems getting squashed.

[garvice]

Thanks NZeder, that gives me a pretty good idea.

Now I have to measure it out and work out where to place the hoist.

[garvice]

Little bit of an update, yesterday was a glorious day, I finally got my car up on my hoist.

 

 

So I managed to get the front arms on the Tie Rod points and the rear arms on the sills. Just using wood blocks at the moment, but will try and get some rubber blocks for it. I thought I would post the photos so that people would have future reference. If anyone has a concern with these lifting points make sure you point it out so that we can all learn.

 

 

Edit: Yes the front of my rails are a bit beat up.

 

[mtopxsecret6]

Wow, is that your shed garvice? I dream of one like that every day.

Here is a pic of my service centre and specialised hoist system.

 

 

[garvice]

^ha, yeah that is my shed. 5 years of working in a carport finally drove me to build it (started thinking about building it 3 years ago), wasnt meant to have a hoist but it came up at a price that I couldn't refuse. Brad

[d3c0y]

That is awesome! Come along way from when i picked up that motor from you - the guy works quick!

[garvice]

Sadly it hasn't really come far from when you saw it. I had the hoist there, was just waiting on energex to upgrade my mains. Since then I have been working on the transmission mount but wouldn't call my progress quick (waited a month for bushings to turn up so that I could finish the mount).

[Z]

Hey Garvice, well done on the first takeoff, now get back to working on a horizontal one.

 

[showtime]

Great read, that’s were I jack my 280zx,i have seen crushed sills and rails as well so it sounds like a common thing u would think that the rails should be strong enough 4 a jack but clearly not.

[NZeder]

Rather than start a new thread I thought I would just post in this one and see if we can make this more a generic S30/S130 lifting thread.

 

Ok so for sometime I have been thinking about how to get my zed higher of the ground while working on the old girl. So first the issues.

 

1. I am a cheap bugger and my shed I built does not have the extra height for a hoist (only had so much $$ for the shed in the first place and could not get a taller unit in my budget) + extra money that could be spent on the zed

2. Hoist are good amount of work/parts on the zed + most 2 posters will not fit in my shed.

3. I really only want to get the zed a good 500-800mm off the ground most of the time for the spanner checks and other inspections once the car is complete + it would be good to have it that high now while I assemble.

 

So I keep looking at what is in the market for this kind of setup and the result is nothing. Yes you can get a mid-raise scissor hoist but then you can't get under the car to check bolts/etc around the exhaust or remove the gearbox + I am a cheap bugger and spending the $$ for one of these = can get a 2 post hoist that is will give gearbox access etc.

 

I don't mind putting the car on axles stand - nice tall ones at that but my current trolley jack does not roll that well so I get to a point when the axles stands start to look as they will tip (trolley jack not rolling easy enough and pulling the car forwards or backwards depending on which end I am lifting at the time). So I need a much better trolley jack. Now the cheap part of me kicks in again. A good high lift trolley jack that will be low enough to work on my zed with its G-Nose is going to cost a large sum of cash - almost 1/2 - 2/3 that of a hoist and I will still have the issue of jacking a little of the front, put small axles stands under - then the rear and repeat going up and then ending up with large axles stand at the end of this process.

 

Now call me lazy by there just has to be a better way of lifting a S30/S130 off the ground to a good working height ready for those large axles stands?

 

I have seen those MaxJax which are mid-lift-range portable 2 post hoist - not idea what they cost but they would work well but I bet they know it and they cost a bunch of zed parts or track time $$

 

I have seen those powerbuilt axles stands with a bottlejack built in - ie get them on the axles stands first then jack the stands higher with the bottle jack. But how do you do that on all 4 corners at the same time and lower them at the same time?

 

So this is the idea that keeps running around the old grey matter

 

I have seen those RV stabilizing scissor jacks that are rated to 8000lb and a range from 5" to 30" - some even have a motor you can attach. I did think maybe you could have 4 of these, then wire up so they all come off the same switch - up and down all corner with a tall scissor jack then once at the height required - place your axles stand under the car, lower and remove the scissor jacks - could be all mounted to a frame you drive over and slide out only leaving the axles stands once complete. However I read on these jacks and motor kits not for lifting your RV just to quickly lower the stabilizer - but rated at 5000-8000lb each surely a 2200lb/2600lb car would be fine. That is only about 550-650lb a corner a 5000lb scissor stabilizer should with motor should lift that ready for axles stands?

 

The cost of building this 4 corner scissor jack/motor thing would be about the same as high lift trolley jack and about the same lift height - but with a straight up lift process not front/back/front/back.

 

So all the engineers out there would/could this work?

[garvice]

Stop being a cheap bastard and buy a hoist. You will not regret it.

Mine was $1400 second hand (had barely been used) and I will have it for life (yes it will move with me).

[NZeder]

true

 

However all second hand unit here in NZ are $2000+ and 3 phase

[garvice]

Yeah my 3phase probably cost more money then the hoist and that was with cheap materials and no labour. Then again I see that more as an investment (now I have an excuse to buy bigger and better toys) and a reason not to leave this house. (Plus I had to upgrade my power supply anyway, so three phase was only a bit more in materials).

[NZeder]

I would have to get a 3phase generator as I am in the sticks and 3phase connection has to come from 4 polls away = 30K would be best guess 

[garvice]

So when are you buying the house for poles down. Ha. Sounds like you are in a pickle. The biggest problem I can see with your idea is that the jacks may not all lift at same speed, creating a potential safety hazard. You could fix this the same way house movers do. Watch the pressures on the hydraulics of each jack (assuming they are hydraulic) and trim them as required.

[garvice]

Actually my hoist is two mechanical screws. It keeps itself aligned with a throttle cable and a limit switch on a spring. You could do the same with four me mechanical jacks.

[NZeder]

So when are you buying the house for poles down.

sounds like a plan but there is one major issue with that - I already own that The poles are already on the block we have, the neighbour has 3 phase it is just getting a cable from the transformer down there up to my shed. I could have had the shed build down there but then the zed would never get out as the steep goat track of a road would be too rough for a normal car let alone a sports car

 

You see it would be cheaper to build a new shed with the correct stud height for a full hoist than install 3 phase.....so just might have to do that one day....but that would be 5-10 year plan. 2 month plan get the zed higher where it is now. Just get a better trolley jack is the simple answer. I don't like simple I like to change things and do things different

 

check this out - I like the bit of video when he show how much flex the car gets on the 2 post hoist

[garvice]

Ha, if that sort of body flex was happening from my car I would be more worried about the structural integrity of the car rather then the issues of lifting it with a hoist. The dollies seem interesting but you also then need to take the wheels off. I have seen something similar that uses the pinch welds to have the car high and mobile, I think it was in the repco trade catalogue, will try and find again.

[Six_Shooter]

When I use a hoist under my S30, which I have done plenty lately, I place the front pads under the TC mounts, and the rear pads under the bulge in the floor, just inside the pinch weld and in front of the rear tire.

 

As far as lifting just 500 to 800 mm, there's a ramp system, that a few guys on Hybrid Z have bought, where you drive up on it, then using a jack, lift the platform up and set to level. I've seen one in person and it's a neat set-up. There are optional pieces that span the middle that you can use for botle jacks and jack stands to remove the wheels.

I'll see if I can find a link/more information.

 

*edit*

 

Kwiklift: http://www.kwiklift.com/features-all.htm

 

Also there is this: http://www.restorationramps.co.uk/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/ramps?opendocument&part=3

[aussie240z]

I needed ramps/hoist and watched evilbay for the car yard style ramps and bought a matching pair from a mechanics yard that was closing down.  I can move/adjust to suit any vehicle and apart from the fact that you are still on the wheels when you are on the ramp, the scope to work around/under/over is pretty good. I have a flat cross member I use across the ramps if I need to raise the zed on axle stands while on the ramp and remove/work on wheels/brakes etc. The attached pic is a set closed out recently on ebay at $641. I was lucky, mine were less than $300. They don't come up that often but when they do,  worth a look as an alternative.

Cheers

Ian