240Z - Year of manufacture?

[NZeder]

Can you remember if they where self retracting?

they were not self retracting if I recall just a fixed adjustment type = a pain when I put it on the track as they were coming loose all the time.

[zedrally]

Well that answers the question, It was Aussie delivery.

[Mr Camouflage]

Were JDM belts for 69/70 self retracting? That's something I wasn't aware of.

[zedrally]

I don't have access to the parts CD ATM to verify this, but working from memory (might be rum affected as I type), they (the seat belts) where self retracting ala 260Z style. Alan (HS-30-H) may have to expand on this as it's possible that they weren't and I've made a big mistake. If I have then I suffer from foot in the mouth disease...

 

Although I can't think of any reason that lap sash belts where replaced with ....drum roll ...lap sash belts... Then again, they replaced the retractables with lap sash, so Jan , what where they thinking?

[Zedman240®]

My 240Z (#121) when i first bought it, had non retracting lap sash belts. A US 240Z 73 model had retractable belts but mounted in a little enclosure behind the seats where the floor kicks up at 45' at the rear before the vertical area where the tool boxes are. Not sure on earlier models though. 

[HS30-H]

The original ( factory ) belts on such an early car would have been static - non-retracting - three-point lap & sash design, manufactured by 'Takata Kojyo KK' ( yes - same company that still manufactures belts with the 'Takata' brand name, as seen on the Super Aguri F1 cars, and last year's Brawn and Toyota F1 cars ). They were all pretty much the same design across the S30-series Zs made up to the end of 1972 at least, whether domestic or export, although I've seen different labels on some domestic market cars. The original white Takata labels should give a month and year of manufacture, may also state the model of car they were designed for ( early export versions said 'Datsun 240Z Sports', as did the late Nov. '71-on domestics when fitted with L24 engines ) and also the local compliance standards. Retracting belts and the north American type with the 'pockets' the bodyshell to house them, were a few years later.

 

Thing is, in the case of HS30-00016, if it does have Nissan / Takata OEM type belts dated 1969 ( I'm interested to know what month? ) then I think they will be fairly unlikely to have been a retro-fit. The S30-specific belts with 1969 manufacturing date are pretty rare in the scheme of things - even for LHD - and I'd be very surprised if they were fitted to the car later in its life. My hunch would be that they were likely to have been with the car from the beginning - even if they were swapped out for local compliance reasons and then re-fitted later.

 

Of course, 1969-dated belts don't date the car ( as Mr C. has pointed out ) and could feasibly have been fitted to a car that came off the line even as late as February or March 1970, although all the seatbelt dates I've ever seen seem to fit pretty closely to the likely month of manufacturing when cross-referenced with other dating stamps on the cars.

 

Seatbelts can of course be easily moved from car to car, so we can never be 100% sure whether they are the same ones that the car left the factory with. Having said that, it seems to be more likely than unlikely that they were the original belts that came on the car     

[zedrally]

Hi Alan,

Nearly did a CB, didn't I......

I did some homework on the belts, amazed to find that the JDM had 2 types, I being a 3 pce lap sash and a 4 pce harness. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the Belts that where replaced in the Aussie zeds, I know we have spoken about this on Classic Zcar, I think they miay have been ARMCO?

Perhaps someone reading this thread might nip out to there 240 and check< I can't mine is miles away..

The point I was trying to make was that if 016 had retractorable belts then it wouldn't have been imported via Australia. Given that the JDM belts where 3 pce rather than the Aussie 2 piece, we still can narrow down where it may have been exported to ( at least discount Australia) So, now we have different  belts going into different Ports and further mysteries.

[GV260]

Regarding the comments on actual year of production of series one HS30's I have a Japanese 2 volume publication by Neko Publishing Co Ltd on the Fairlady covering the Datsun 2000, Silvia and 240Z (some text is in English). There is a table that has all the production numberts per model and for the HS30 it stated 438 were made in 1969. The publication was done with "the cooperation of Nissan Motor Co Ltd" so I presume the table is correct. Accordingly then whilst 240Z's were not sold in Australia until 1970 any Z with a build number 438 or less have to be 1969 made cars. Australian sales wise I have a copy of a 240Z road test artice from January 1974 Modern Motor which states 110 units were sold in 1970, 751 in '71, 534 in '72 (lower due to supply issues). 

[Mr Camouflage]

Got a photo or scan of that chart?

[zedrally]

Wonder if Alan has his radar turned on? 

[GV260]

Copy of production numbers by year table attached.

14310_60707a1f095237c61ef59f7111a4c494543c9eb4.zip

[zedrally]

Another version appears in:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7801&referrerid=2363

 

An excellent thread on production numbers.

 

[Mr Camouflage]

Copy of production numbers by year table attached.

 

I wonder if they are including HLS30's in with the HS30's in that chart for these reasons:

 

1. HLS30's are not listed anywhere on that chart, but make up for a large % of all S30 type cars sold (When I say S30 , I mean all types of S30 (fairlady Z, 240Z, etc), not the actual S30 (the fairlady Z JSM 2 liter model) )

 

2.

17,892 HS30's made in 1970

41,595 in 1971

61,595 in 1972,

43,584 in 1973,

= 164,666 which seems way off for just HS30's (if excluding HLS30's).

 

Nissan only sold about 3000 240Z in Australia from 1970 to 1973. Where did the other 161,666 HS30's go?

 

I think its fairly obvious that included under the table for HS30, are all S30's that had the 2.4 litre engine (that's what the H stands for in the chassis number, it means the car had the L24). Therefor I suspect that chart contains data for HS30's and HLS30's and the (JDM) Fairlady 240z (HS30-H) as well.

 

So if the chart contain both HS30 and HLS30, and  because of the parallel uses of chassis numbers, your assumption that any car with a sub 438 chassis number mush have been made in 1969 is incorrect.

 

Thanks for posting the chart though, the CSP311 production numbers are interesting.

 

 

 

[bluerat]

Very interesting guy's. I've alway been told the pre '69 Aussie Zed's were a myth started so people could run a certain historic race class? Alan would you have a list to compare very early engine numbers to work out a build date?

[NZeder]

I wonder if they are including HLS30's in with the HS30's in that chart for these reasons:

 

1. HLS30's are not listed anywhere on that chart, but make up for a large % of all S30 type cars sold (When I say S30 , I mean all types of S30 (fairlady Z, 240Z, etc), not the actual S30 (the fairlady Z JSM 2 liter model) )

 

2.

17,892 HS30's made in 1970

41,595 in 1971

61,595 in 1972,

43,584 in 1973,

= 164,666 which seems way off for just HS30's (if excluding HLS30's).

 

Nissan only sold about 3000 240Z in Australia from 1970 to 1973. Where did the other 161,666 HS30's go?

 

I think its fairly obvious that included under the table for HS30, are all S30's that had the 2.4 litre engine (that's what the H stands for in the chassis number, it means the car had the L24). Therefor I suspect that chart contains data for HS30's and HLS30's and the (JDM) Fairlady 240z (HS30-H) as well.

 

So if the chart contain both HS30 and HLS30, and  because of the parallel uses of chassis numbers, your assumption that any car with a sub 438 chassis number mush have been made in 1969 is incorrect.

 

Thanks for posting the chart though, the CSP311 production numbers are interesting.

They are good books I have Volume 1 2 and 3 of these.

[RBZ 260]

guys not sure if this helps but i had my old rego label on of my #227 in my wallet

 

so chassis number #227 and engine number is L24018162. it is series one with fender mirrors (well mirrors are missing but have these plastic plugs covering the holes)

 

i will check for some stamps next time im around the car. the car seems fairly original even though few parts are missing. be interesting if it is special than i may give it a new life as a stocker if not moding he we go.

 

 

[Zedman240®]

I'm itching to remove my dashboard to check for quality check dates on components there. I've checked the rear view mirror base but no luck there.. I'm crossing my fingers!

[Mr Camouflage]

An engine number of L24-018162 would put it at a build date around  11/1970, when compared to the engine numbers of US cars. (Though their chassis numbers were up into the 15,000's by then, while ours were still in the hundreds).

 

At a guess, I'd say it would have a compliance plate date of  12/1970 or 1/1971

 

 

 

[RBZ 260]

Thanks Mr C.

 

No compliance plate on this one just the datsun plate and no sign of ever existing on the car. I'll try remove few things under dash see if I can see any stamps.

Be interesting as the car has no evidence of previous repairs original 1 coat of paint. My 72 is no fun it's complied 2/72 on the ADR plate.

[Mr Camouflage]

Just for comparison:

 

The dealer that sold cars 230 and 345 received them early in Jan, 1971, they were both registered on 25/1/71

 

I expect yours would have been received about the same time.

[bluerat]

I've just had a look on the Zhome regisiter and if that is to be beleived, the 1969 Aussie Zed is a myth! If you compare the 240Z on the WA register no. 00030 with engine number in the late 9000's to the US car's it was built in July 1970. Like it was mentioned before it may have been built before and set aside, but it looks likes it was finished in mid 1970. The two earlier cars on the HS30 list on the USA site are both quoted to be built in 1970.

 

What do you think? This looks to me to be an easy way to check any date, as long as the L24's were fitted in numbered order. Or an I barking up the wrong tree, or barking mad, lol.

 

 

Catch ya,

 

Hodgo

[GV260]

Attached are the additional tables/pages in order from the Fairlady publication so you can follow it properly. I've attached the first page again given the quality wasn't great. Build numbers for HLS30 cars are on the second page (in table 2). The third page (table 3) is for S30 but I have no idea what they relate to given the Japanese text.

14335_7467202a4dceda491e4db0f8975e0ce29162bdcb.zip

[GV260]

Table 2

14336_982fcfbed47261f3f72d4bfeb7fb9693f3511c86.zip

[GV260]

Table 3

14337_ec89906cfef90579fba1c2585589169eab389a1b.zip

[zedrally]

Very interesting guy's. I've alway been told the pre '69 Aussie Zed's were a myth started so people could run a certain historic race class? Alan would you have a list to compare very early engine numbers to work out a build date?

Bluerat, don't confuse the datto with the zed. There are no pre '69 zeds. The misconception that you heard was based on the Datsun 1600 (Datto). I'll preface the following by saying this happened in the Rally world, not circuit, so the outcome may have effected the circuit boys, it may not have either.

 

There was a protest made after the running of a certain HRA rally (don't ask which one) about the substitution of a 4 speed box with a 5 speed box in a 1600, until then, all the 1600 owners where  running in HRC Cat2 (68-75). The protest discovered that the 5 speed was a homogated option from the Sports 2000 which was allowed to be fitted as a option, it also discovered that the 1600 was built and homogated prior to 68, which then allowed them to compete in HRC Cat 1.(which really peaved the protesters and  still to this day brings cringing faces when mentioned in the right company )

 

As to pre 70 zeds in Australia, I'm know that over the years that this has been debated (many times in ClassicZcar) that it was agreed that 004 was the earliest and possibly didn't arrive here until the 1st Quarter of 1970. The actual month has never been established, only presumed. There is little doubt that it certainly had been built in '69, as to it's actual location in '69(Japan or Australia) is unknown.

It may have been in Australia in '69, it may not have.

As for the register in Zhome, forget it, it confuses everyone with it's numbers of HLS-30 and basically ignores the fact that there where S-30's built pre 70. In actual fact until Alan T took some of the claims to task, it actually distributed mis-information and didn't reflect the actual status of the S-30 and it's many variants. We can all thank Alan for his stand otherwise the history of the S-30 would still be distorted.

There are many excellent threads and discussions on this however make sure you read the right information otherwise you may fall into the trap of believeing a certain German was responsible for the S-30......

regards...