ID type of L28?

[apsilon]

Hi guys,

 

Sorry, I'm sure this has been done but I'm having no luck finding the info here or via google.

 

Simple question with hopefully a simple answer. How do I tell if an L28 is an N42 or F54 block (are there other possibilities)? I assume/hope it's cast into the block but where?

 

Thanks.

[C.A.R.]

Yes, F54 or N42 is cast into the lower LHS of the block down near the back.

It's pretty hard to miss

 

FWIW, the N42 is the block to use for turboing or building a 3.1ltr, as it has the webbing right through all the bores, whereas the F54 only has webbing between 1&2, 3&4, 5&6

 

[modular9]

passengers side engine block will/should have the stamping.

 

If you got carbs you'll need to peer past them with torch . If you are EFI then hahha you going to need to realllyyy peer past the efi stuff.

 

There are differences in the blocks regarding the webbing etc which you could work out from careful measuring. There are a few threads on hybridz.org about the differences with photos. I'm building up a F54 so can get you closeups on the webbing and stuff.

[NZeder]

Yes, F54 or N42 is cast into the lower LHS of the block down near the back.

It's pretty hard to miss

 

FWIW, the N42 is the block to use for turboing or building a 3.1ltr, as it has the webbing right through all the bores, whereas the F54 only has webbing between 1&2, 3&4, 5&6

 

Are you sure about the webbing - I know that the factory turbo engine was based on the F54 block. I believe the statement about 3.1 and N42 is correct and the earlier the N42 the better as the blocks have a higher nickel content = stronger and can take a larger bore. In Japan I believe they only recommend the F54 be over bored to 88mm any more they JBWeld the blocks water jackets. So this might be due the webbing differences or just thinner walls (ie larger water jackets for the turbo design ie hotter = keep the block cooler)

[Zedman240®]

I thought "a pic is worth a thousand words" so heres a pic of my L24 block but I'm sure they are all in the same spot near the passenger side engine mount. Mine says E31 but your's will say something else...

[apsilon]

Thanks all, that clarifies how to ID the block (I don't have one to look at but need to know so I can ask others to ID what they have).

 

I'm confused over which is better however as I was just reading that the F54 was the stronger block as it has extra reinforcing in the water jackets compared to the N42 and so is the choice for 3.1 stroker (which is what I'm considering). 

 

Is an L28 block from a Patrol a suitable starting block for a build (seems so wrong to be transplanting an engine from a 4WD into a sports car LOL)?

[C.A.R.]

NZeder, that's probably where the 'turbo' block mystique came from.

Indeed, extra cooling may be needed in a turbo application, but how much of a difference it would make... who knows...?

 

If you’re going for any large size overbore, the early N42 would be the one to go for.

 

[BenZed]

Thanks all, that clarifies how to ID the block (I don't have one to look at but need to know so I can ask others to ID what they have).

 

I'm confused over which is better however as I was just reading that the F54 was the stronger block as it has extra reinforcing in the water jackets compared to the N42 and so is the choice for 3.1 stroker (which is what I'm considering). 

 

Is an L28 block from a Patrol a suitable starting block for a build (seems so wrong to be transplanting an engine from a 4WD into a sports car LOL)?

 

I have an F54 block bored to 90mm, but I wouldn't recommend boring this far in a turbo application. Several blocks were tested before we found one that had consistent cylinder wall depth.

[apsilon]

Thanks all. So it would seem the best L28 block to use for a 3.1 stroker would be whatever you can get your hands on as long as it checks out OK.

 

Ben, I just read your project thread the other day. It's partly responsible for me thinking that perhaps I was looking down the wrong path before.

[NZeder]

Both my 90mm bore L28 have been based on early N42's not the very rare early N42, I am saving this one for later. You can tell the very very early N42 (highest Nickel content of them all) by looking at the oil filter area. All apart from these early N42's have 4 bolt holes around the oil filter area some are tapped some are not. The ones not tapped are the better N42 to get but the best ones are the ones without the shape or space for the 4 bolt holes - they are very rare I have only found one in all my years of searching and it will stay in my collection.

 

To be completely honest if you are going to build a 3.1 I would recommend just going to 88mm bore and make a 3.0 stroker you can get same power if you spend the $$ in the correct place in the head. The 88mm will allow you to run large valves etc get the head to flow enough for the 3.0 and all the power you want will be there and you don't have to go all the way out to 89mm thus allowing you to go that far if a rebuild is required in the future. A stroker will cost $$ so don't go cheap with the KA24 truck type piston. Get a good set of forged units, good bearings, balance and crack test etc and you will have a strong engine.

The stroker will give you more torque and a turbo will give even more torque.

 

How much power are you looking for?

What is you budget?

How do you want to get to your target power? Turbo or NA?

 

These question are all important when building a L6 engine. If you want NA and big power better have a big budget and don't expect anymore than 14MPG. If you want big power and don't care if it get this via turbo or NA then turbo might be your best option but this is still going to cost a bunch too, EFI, ECU, Fuel system upgrades if on a Carb'd car etc. Both of these would also require (well I would anyway) more woh to go with the go. So brake upgrades will be on the list and budgeted for too, then suspension etc.

 

So to do either correctly I would not expect change from $20K - yes it can be done cheaper but not to the level,

 

engine $10K, suspension $5k, Brakes $3k, other bits $2k and all that is on the low side it could be double that too - depends on how much you can do your self or how much is new vs second hand etc.

[apsilon]

Thanks for the info on IDing the early N42 blocks.

 

I'd already thought of going 3.0 instead of 3.1 for just that reason that it allows for further work later should it be required.

 

As for power I'd be happy with 150rwkw, more would be a bonus, but in the weight of the car that's enough for some fun. If I go with an L series build it'll be NA. Budget is whatever it takes to get the point I'm happy with it. I'm fully expecting to go through $30k+ on this project. It'll just take time.

[apsilon]

One last question, what should I be paying for a running L28 (complete engine)? Had a bit of a look around yesterday and the couple I saw were asking a fair bit more than I would've thought.

[modular9]

yes definitley yes. yes.

 

I bought a l28 in bits and I am missing bits which are getting harder and harder to find. So get one that is running ( so you know the bits inside are all there and are ok ) or at least unopened ( so you have all the bits. )

 

Also will allow you to take it apart and number the flipping bolts in order and so forth !!

 

So that would be yes. and they are getting more expensive as they are getting more scarce. The datsun wreckers down the road have about 7-8 L24 and 3 L26's but no L28's .

[apsilon]

So what are they worth in dollar terms? These were $800+ each for stock engines. I thought they'd be cheaper given what I've seen L24 and L26 go for. If that's what they're going for then fine, just don't want to pay more than I should.

[Scando]

If you're going to rebuild it anyway then you should be able to get one that's smokey for under $500.

[apsilon]

I'm not worried about it being smokey etc. As long as the block isn't cracked or seized. I've just seen well running L26s go for under $500 so wasn't sure if I should pay in excess of $800 for a "running" L28.

 

I guess my next question, and it's getting off topic now, is should I look for one of these P90 heads that seem to be in demand or just stick with the easy to find N42?

[NZeder]

turbo or NA if NA stick with the N42. N42 are a good head - yes they don't have the nice shape of the P90 but then the valves are easier to get in larger size. The P90 valve is shorter due the raised CC floor. We don't see too many P90 heads here in NZ and most just take a good N42 and spend the $$ with a good head shop to get the performance you require and budget will allow.

 

I am sure one of the local guys can recommend a good shop/guy to deal with. Another option is to find one of the guys racing and see if they can point in the right direction (I know some guys don't like telling you too much but that is usually the Escort vs Escort racer type most of the zed guys are happy to help and share info and also tell you what to avoid as it will be good money after bad idea/solution etc)

 

So with that in mind - I recommend getting, a well known Oz trick from way back and we do it here in NZ (not too many outside of this region do this mod - not sure why might be as they have access to good local solution/product for a good price), and that is the BMW balancer on a custom adaptor. I had two adaptors made locally here in NZ and they cost $180 for the adaptor, then a visit to the local BMW wrecker for a balancer then some time on the lathe to turn the outside down to the correct/required diameter and you have a balancer that will not fail unlike the stock unit.

 

For big HP don't waste good money on a clutch that will only last a few track days or turns down the strip. Do it once, do it right. Spend the $$ on a good custom 4340 flywheel and twin plate clutch like a tilton 7 1/4" unit, or quarter master etc - or as you are in Oz maybe a exedy racing clutch. I thought a twin plate would be too much for the street but it was easy and very streetable after a few hours of getting used to it.

 

Also if you can't find a L28 - don't worry about it given the $$ involved in locating one you might have to go through a few to find one that will take the bore you require. So I would talk to an engine shop and find out how much it would cost to put liner into a L24/L26 block. This way you know it will be good for job now and into the future. This might be cheaper in the long run if the L28 are hard to find and as Ben has stated they had to test a few before they found a good one for the 90mm bore (very large). Just look at it this way say one L28 cost $500 and you don't find a good one right from the start you might be up for 3 or 4 before you get one that can take your 89mm so that could be $500-2000 but it might only cost $800 to have some liners installed into a L24/L26 so yes $300 more than a L28 but you know what you will have.

 

Some more food for thought.

Cheers

Mike

[NZeder]

Re the clutch - if Exedy state they can't do a twin plate racing unit for the L28/L26 etc then tell them you want one for a R32/R33 RB20DET or RB25DE/T in the push type setup - and infact the RB flywheel will also fit got to love how Nissan makes so much parts interchangeable

[apsilon]

Thanks for all that.

 

I'll be going NA. As for shops that won't be a problem, I have plenty of contacts in that area. Interesting info about the balancer as well. Clucth I'll probably go Exedy as I've used them in the past and was very happy with it.

 

I hadn't thought about sleeving. I'll talk to the shop I'll most likely use and see what they think. Thanks.

 

[mjfawke]

The P90 block is the one to look for.  It was the standard L28 block after 1981, so should be in late 280ZX or Patrol's.  It has the cast webs, but they have cooling slots in them unlike the F54. 

 

The P90 was good enough for Electromotive - should be good enough for a street motor.

[BenZed]

 

 

For big HP don't waste good money on a clutch that will only last a few track days or turns down the strip. Do it once, do it right. Spend the $$ on a good custom 4340 flywheel and twin plate clutch like a tilton 7 1/4" unit, or quarter master etc - or as you are in Oz maybe a exedy racing clutch. I thought a twin plate would be too much for the street but it was easy and very streetable after a few hours of getting used to it.

 

 

Admittedly I'm exceptionally biased, but I think the OS Giken TS2BD is the best twin plate for a Zed hehe

[nat0_240_chevZ]

also has an F54/P90 for sale, suit a rebuild, make a reasonable offer, and look after freight yourself.

in adelaide

cheers nat0

[NZeder]

The P90 block is the one to look for.  It was the standard L28 block after 1981, so should be in late 280ZX or Patrol's.  It has the cast webs, but they have cooling slots in them unlike the F54.   

 

The P90 was good enough for Electromotive - should be good enough for a street motor.

good luck finding a P90 Block - when you do please show us all a pic as I have never heard of such a beast before. P90 heads yes P90 blocks NO

[Mr Camouflage]

P90 block? never heard of that one. The F54 block was the one with the P90 head.

 

There were only 2 L28 blocks that I know of. The N42 and the F54. (There was also an N42 head though, strangely enough).

 

 

[mjfawke]

A very, very belated reply.

 

Yes, I wasn't thinking.

 

The F54 block as used with the P90 head has coolant flow slots cast in the webs between the cylinder pairs, as opposed to the earlier F54 blocks.