PZG302 Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Yep, and I already have target times in mind that are very do able without the need for huge power. However a lot of the S chassis cars running around have a lot more freedoms than me. I have to run standard manifolds and turbo, which limits the power I can make. I also have limitations in what I can do in terms of suspension mods, however I do have some other freedoms to make the chassis lighter like using lexcan windows and plastic hanging panels. As seen in the thread a lot of time has been spent on the chassis and the suspension is getting the best of what I can afford. So good preparation and bits such as MCA reds for the coil overs and adjustable everything to make it as good as possible in the handling department so I don't need to worry as much about power so can get a good reliable package for my dollars that will be competitive and will also do the long distance type races like the Willowbank, Wakefield and Winton 300's and the one hour Prod Sport Enduros. I'm realistic enough to know that I won't beat Corvettes or R35's or the GT3 cars now coming into the category, but I will be going very fast for the dollars spent and will be enjoying myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 For Lakeside you will have enough power to do great times Matt, one of the many lessons I have learnt about that track is watching some Corvette in car. He was catching multiple MX5's in corners when the 'conventional wisdom' is that cars like Corvettes only do good times because of their power. In fact he was catching them around the back and tail gating them through the twisty bits, only getting room to pass on the straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 "Famous's" vette is a very well sorted, albeit, fairly standard one. They are a pretty good bit of kit out of the box and Geoff has done a fair bit of development on the car as well. Pity he is living the dream racing in the States in the IMSA series over there. Though it may come out for a play in the next few Prodsports rounds if it is back together. I have two cars to chase in terms of times, Callum Wahatmore's S13 and Paul Williamson's S15 that he is currently building. These two cars for mine are the benchmarks in Brisbane for S chassis and drivers. Though there is also a coupleof IPRA S chassis cars that I will also look at, but the IPRA a little more restrictive in a lot of areas that make it easier to build a 2B spec car that goes as fast cheaper than IPRA. Restrictors make things expensive to go fast and IPRA is expensive to go fast anyway.... Whilst all three cars are different in what they are being built for they will all be pretty even in the times they will do. Plus I have access to a couple of very good professional drivers to help set it up when I'm ready to do shakedown tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Callum's times are a good benchmark, while still in a genuine road reg car he has done some nice DIY aero work and is a very tidy driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 The aero Callum runs is his big advantage over what I am allowed to do. I am fairly restricted in what I can do in terms of aero. Rear wing only 250mm high and a 400mm max chord width single element wing or 150mm high spoiler, which is what I will be doing as a bird bath will give me more benefit with the shape of the s14 and where the air runs and is turbulent off the roof. I cant get a wing up high enough legally to the rules. I can run a bird bath that also has sides up to the centreline of the hubs to stop the air falling off the sides of the car. Front is also restricted. I can run a splitter but only as far forward as the original body line and only back as far as the front edge of the tyres. No flat bottoms either. Only fiddle I can do is run the standard plastic under tray, but that isn't all that good for airflow under the car. Ducting into and out of the engine bay will have to be carefully thought out to make the most of it. Basically I have to rely more on mechanical grip than aero grip to make the car work well. I wouldn't want to be pulled over for a roadworthy check in Callum's S13 though, would be interesting to say the least...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Matt, you do realise that Callum is very fast though the slower corners at Lakeside, where aero has little influence, don't you. While there are differences between your cars, as much as is possible I reckon the two will have overall similar capabilities. So don't give up in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 I haven't given up, my car will be stronger in other areas like mechanical grip. My car has a much better base chassis than Callum's, cage is better designed and shell is seam welded where the S13 hasn't got as good a cage for chassis stiffness, and my S14 will have much better suspension than what Callum's runs, plus I get to run grippier tyres, slicks on 10" wide tyres. I expect my car to be as quick, if not a touch quicker than Callum's, but a couple of years development in suspension, a better prepared base and better rubber will do that. Paul's S15 will be interesting as it is being built for sprints and the odd run in the outlaws series so again a lot more freedoms than me. The S15 has some stuff better than me, brakes and a bit more taken out of the shell and the motor will be a bit more modified than mine will. Wheels will be the same width, 10" at this stage but not sure if Paul will be running slicks or semis. Again the S15 will have better aero than me as it isn't restricted like I am, so much bigger rear wing that sits at the roof line out of the turbulent air off the back of the car and more freedoms for the front splitter. Looks like I will be working on two projects at once for the next few months so commuting between Indonesia, PNG and Brisbane will make work interesting and hopefully a few more dollars available to get the motor started and the car on its way to be ready to play late this year. I will know what's happening with work on Monday when I have a meeting with the PNG project manager and hopefully get approval from the client for me to take over on the Indo project in the next few days. Is frustrating waiting for others and not knowing if I have a contract or I should be chasing work elswhere. At least this gives me an in to more international work in the Asia-Pacific region, which is slightly better for dollars and means I get more time off as I would tend to do 2 weeks away and then a week or so home on a standard 5 to 5.5 day week. The dollars are made on the allowances not necessarily the day rate which is the same or a little less than what I earn here depending on the client. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter t Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I know you guys are Z related but your current build has nothing to do with Z cars. : : : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 I know you guys are Z related but your current build has nothing to do with Z cars. : : : And yet it does....... The build thread is a few things; - Firstly a record of the build for myself as this will probably be the last race car I build from scratch - Second, to those interested in building a car for the track, what needs to be done to build a good quality, safe, hopefully quick, and relatively cheap race car. - Third, a few people on here are interested in the build and what I am replacing the old Green Monster with and whilst I haven't got a S30 at the moment, I still consider myself part of the Z family. It is also interesting to see what people are doing with other cars they own and projects they have. In the opening posts I go through the reasons why I chose the S chassis over another Zed for the category I race in. Basically a 40 year old car stuck with using 40 year old technology will be beaten every day of the week by more modern machinery for a lot less cost. If I was to replace my Zed with another one I would have been looking at $5k or so for a shell to start with plus another $10k on rust/body repairs to fix 40 years of use and then the $5k for the cage. The S14 shell was bought, prepped and caged for under $8k with a cheap paint job to finish, basically it will go into a booth and get a lot of white overspray when a bus is painted...... If I was building an historic car for classic rallies or for Group Sc I would more than likely be building a Zed, though these cars are now not cheap to turn into a steaming ball of metal on the side of the road or track, so other alternative cars are needed to be looked at for track work, and I hope this record may inspire or help others doing, or looking at doing the same now or in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2kman Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Jolly shame Whatmore and Williamson don't "dumb" their cars down to Prodspirts specs. Road reg is a very vague moot point. What may have been Road Reg 10 years ago, may well not pass any Dept Tpt inspection today! So no , not "road registered" Fine for "Outlaws" class, would a Sports Sedan Z with an engine from another manufacturer be accepted in Proddies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 Nope, and can't do a rb swap into s30 either. But much cheaper better and quicker cars to use than s30's available now. Fir example late model 'vette landed and on the track near the front for under $50k, gt3 cars will be this price in 5 or so years as well. S30's have had their day in modern club motorsport. There are a few Z33's coming through as they get cheaper, but bargain at the moment is the BMW Z4 breadvan, on the track for around 30k from Japan and are quick and don't break out of the box. Bolt some semis on and away you go..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Jolly shame Whatmore and Williamson don't "dumb" their cars down to Prodspirts specs. Road reg is a very vague moot point. What may have been Road Reg 10 years ago, may well not pass any Dept Tpt inspection today! So no , not "road registered" Fine for "Outlaws" class, would a Sports Sedan Z with an engine from another manufacturer be accepted in Proddies? Haha, Jason at it again. Except for wheels, tyres and aero a road registered car will be considered basically legal if it's significant mods are officially approved. Most are above the minimum 100mm legal ride height and have lights, horn and so on. That's talking about older cars like Nevs, Sinishas and mine for example, the later model stuff have much stiffer chassis for a start which is a big advantage. Like Matt said with the BMW, throw a set of semis on them and start going seriously fast. Can't do that with an older chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Well a small report on not a lot of progress. I am in the middle of a two week break from Indonesia and head back at the end of next week for a month and then I need to find six months work before I go back again next year for a six month tour of lesser known area of regional Indonesia. The wheels have been sorted, I will be running 18x9" wheels so I don't have to worry about flares and they are pretty much spot on for the tyres I will be running, Prsche cup fronts and also the same size as most of the GT cars for a source of second hand tyres wher they are cheap enough to have a set per meeting. For enduro type races, the one hour Prod Sports enduros and the QR, Wakefield 300, and may be Winton 300, races I will be running Achilles or Khumo slicks as these are cheap enough and hard enough to the whole weekend. The main update is I have a set of hanging panels, guards plus bonnet and boot, about to be sent away to get molds and ABS plastic panels made to lighten the car a bit. There are other advantages as well, they won't break or shatter like 'glass, generally bend and then split so can easily be glued back together to repair. The base colour will be white, so less painting for me, though they can be painted if required. Also suspension has been decided on and once I get back from the next stint for work, will be pulling the trigger on a set of MCA reds. These will have all the adjustment I will ever need and I probably won't be doing too much playing with them once they are initially set up. Hopefully the shell will be able to come off the rotisserie in September and be a roller ready for paint, and then once the dollars are there I can get the engine built and then it will be ready for shakedown. So at the moment I am looking like hitting the track in the car in 2015 sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 What's with the ABS panels, sounds like a great idea but also sounds expensive. Seeing that non metal panels are available off the shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 Once the molds are made they are very cheap, plus the fact that I will own the molds, so there may be a little extra money in it for me and the manufacturer supplying panels to the dorifto boys. The ABS has many advantages over fibreglass if damaged. Basically the ABS will bend and then split rather than break or shatter. Repair is easier, a bit of acetone along the split and it is glued back into one piece. As the car will be white, the panels will not need painting, as the base colour is a strong white, think of plastic garden chairs, so that saves a bit more weight and money when replacing. If the bonnet needs bracing, then glue can be used to attached alloy strips to the bonnet, still keeping it very light. Also the current fibreglass guards are all flared and shaped in a way (widebody) that is not legal for 2B, not easily available at a cheap price (for boot lid) or for the bonnets vented in such a way that they are not quite legal for the 2B rules. In getting my own panels then I know they are legal and are exactly what I want and built to my specifications. Basically, for the cost of a set of fibreglass panels that are not really legal for 2B, I get a couple of sets of ABS panels and the molds to make more as needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2kman Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 By having stock guard shape, in ABS plastic, makes it sssoooooo much easier to cut/trim to then fit tek-screw on flares! Good idea. You'll no doubt let Paul know about these, maybe he can onsell for you? Rear quarters?? ( bit harder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 Yep, Paul knows about these. Still waiting on a diff from Paul as well. I have to drop in on Monday to pick up some rear rotors so a bit more of the rear cradle can be put together. Will be pulling the hubs back off during the week to paint to make them as pretty as the rest of the cradle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 So the hanging panels are on their way to be made into molds, I now have rear rotors to complete the brake hardware and I will be getting some Hawk brake pads in the next couple of months. I also found a nice intercooler solution for the car. rather than a big front mount, I was put onto a two intercooler solution where two standard intercoolers are mounted up in the standard location and the mirror image on the other side. This helps with response compared to the big front mount and isn't as exposed for damage and makes the airflow a bit easier to manage. I was then pointed to a website, http://www.partsshopmax.com/page.php?41 that has a high mount intercooler solution that will come at about $500 for a complete kit with some other advantages over the other two solutions: 1. Better response than a big front mount. 2. piping is a lot shorter, and also easier to bypass if I have a drama with damaging the intercooler for any reason. 3. As it it bolts up to the radiator support panel, bugger all fabrication to do. 4. In back to back testing on a car going from a FMIC to the HMIC, the car picked up some power, but most importantly the boost came in about 500rpm quicker. 5. Also lot easier to deal with ducting for the cooler and radiatior within the rules. When I get from Indonesia at the end of August I should have the light weight panels ready, a new diff ready and be making a trip to the Sunshine coast to discuss and order a set of coilovers. I hope to have the shell as a roller and off the rotisserie in October, where it will then sit next to a bus being painted and get covered in overspray....... After that, I have to start stacking up the fun tickets for the motor and ECU with dash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2kman Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Before you do, come and have a look at a pair of Supra 1J/2J intercoolers I have here. Far better than stock s14 units, slightly biggere, piping slightly bigger for volumetric efficiency. Was gonna use one of them on the turbo Roadster thingy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 The highmount I am looking at should do the job, core is 690x190x86 and the total size with end plates is 838mm and 908mm from the mounting brackets. I will measure up the ebay cooler I have and if close enough in size and fits up in the top of the radiator support I may not have to worry about the intercooler itself and just get the pipes made up to suit. Which I did and it is too deep basically blocking most of the radiator. Looks like I'll have two intercoolers up for sale soon when I strip the other car...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2kman Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 With electric fan, a > mount? Yeah that high mount looks good, bit of ducting should get airflow to it. Off to keadure my widths!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 So it's been a while since the last update and not much has happened, but there has been some progress. The spare car has been stripped of the bits I need and is awaiting to be sold as a rolling shell. It provided the motor, a spare box, tailshaft, pedals some trim for the windows so they will sit properly and not flex, expected when they are 3mm acrylic. Leaking green blood as it is being prepared to have its heart ripped out..... And now where it sits forlornly waiting to be rescued.... Also sold one SR20 I had, a blacktop out of a S13, so no VCT, only a T25 and different inlet manifold to the S14, so couldn't use it in Prod Sports. The bloke that bought it got a bargain, and I got a diff..... So this was sold..... To buy this...... The other two SR20's, one from a S14 and on from a S15 are now at the engine builders to have a look see where we can make some gains within the restrictions of the rules. Looks like the motor will be a low boost, around 12lbs, running on 98 that will hopefully be nice and torquey using Motec's latest M1 series ECU and either a C125 or C127 data logging display to future proof the management side and provide me with more data than I will ever know what to do with...... The ute was full..... And today I finally got around to starting some work on the car. Before starting on bolting the brake and fuel hardlines back onto the shell, and refitting the fuel tank so I can reinstall the assembled rear cradle and then front suspension, so the shell can come off the rotisserie and I can get the ute back in the garage, I got out the angle grinder and FBH to "roll" the rear guards, well just knock the lip up so the tyres will fit with an extra couple of mm clearence and not be cut by the edge. Half way through side one.... Hammer was used..... Hammered flat and hit with some etch primer..... Before fitting the rear cradle I will be painting the inner guards with another coast of KBS to provide some extra protection. Hopefully this will be rolling and ready for paint in the next few weeks. I now have all the suspension arms ready to go and a new 4.3:1 diff with 2 way mechanical LSD and matching drive shafts ready to bolt in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Hope that those cut quarters were welded up again before painting, got to keep my eye on you blokes it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dat2kman Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Why? Perfectly OK. Makes it easy to pry back off and repair/replace outer skins, and tub the upper inners, f need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PZG302 Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Just etch primed at this stage, still have to do a little finishing yet, but the other race cars I never bothered and never had dramas with cut tyres or rust from just folding the lips over. Just need to take a couple of rough edges off and then repaint in KBR and all done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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