44014 Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 Hey guys , lets say your trying to figure out the biggest motor you can fit to a certain vehicle, and you need the gross mass . Where would the guy doing the mod plate get that information from? Is there a government list somewhere or would they just jump on wiki ? Just a note its not on the compliance plate ... Cheers Doug
mossy Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 I don't know where you'd find the info but I know on my old rego sticker it lists my 240z as 1000kgs but I thought they were about 1068kgs? Maybe ask scoota g as I'm pretty sure he had his z engineered with a v8 so he would of have to supplied those details.
dat2kman Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 Take your car, the one you are intending to mod, put a few extra tools, etc in under and around spare tyre, and some heavyish items on floors,then, Take it to a Public Weighbridge ( google will be helpfull here!) Get it weighed, yes, unfortunately it might cost a few dollars, shock horror, get it dated and noted with your rego plate etc. Then take ticket to your mod guy, and ask him, based on the current gross mass of YOUR car, what size engine will he allow!
44014 Posted July 21, 2013 Author Posted July 21, 2013 Take your car, the one you are intending to mod, put a few extra tools, etc in under and around spare tyre, and some heavyish items on floors,then, Take it to a Public Weighbridge ( google will be helpfull here!) Get it weighed, yes, unfortunately it might cost a few dollars, shock horror, get it dated and noted with your rego plate etc. Then take ticket to your mod guy, and ask him, based on the current gross mass of YOUR car, what size engine will he allow! I did think of this Jase ! But the regs state that it must be the listed weight for the heaviest version with out aircon of the same body type .. And I asked my mod plate guy the same thing and he was all " no has to be the listed weight " Forgot to ask him where this listed weight is listed... So where is this mythical listed weight list ?
Scoota G Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 2 Seater or 2+2? National code applied to a 260Z 2 seater works out to be 4.4 Liters, 2+2 being 1200 Kgs you can fit an engine up to 6.0 Liters. This changes with turbo applications too.
44014 Posted July 21, 2013 Author Posted July 21, 2013 Yes I know the regulateions its is a very simple formula. Weight in kg x5 for na and x3 for turbo . But where do I get the weight from to figure out maximum engine capacity . Ps this is for vehicles above 1100 kg below the the limits are lower. http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP3_Section_LA_Engine_01jan2011_v3.pdf
dat2kman Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 Workshop manual for S30 complete car, late model (US) 280Z with those lovely 45 kg each bumper bars, was around 1300 kgs. IIRC. I supose all you need is a printout of the pabge from a pdf of the factory manual? I do have a book here that lists specs for all Datsun models, it has the 280Z in it. USA/Japan/Australia, no memtter, all built in same factory! Wax on wax off grasshopper!!
nizm0zed Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 call the tech standrds department at your RTA. Basically when the 'standard' car was complied initially in order to regulate the rest of the mass produced models coming in the weights of the different models were recorded and became the 'standard' weight. It doesnt matter if you weighbridge it with a full cage and reinforced bodywork (Essentially meaning it could handle a more powerful engine) as far as the RTA and the engineer is concerned, ALL of the models under a particular category all weigh the same amount. Its also a wet weight, so assuming some fuel, fluids, average driver weight ect. Im sure its probably recorded somewhere, but sometimes its just easier to go to the source. At the end of the day, that is where the engineer is going to source it from too.
zed240au Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 I wish u luck with your endeavour I played this game with transport here in Tasmania to them it has to be a listed weight of car as originally imported to Australia I supplied road and track articles for heaviest version of 240z s30 chassis being a 280z in usa which is listed as 1304 kg multiply by 5 equals 6.5 lt just enough for a de stroked v10 viper engine But all transport Tasmania wanted to talk about was 240z weighs 1068 kg (as listed surprisingly on Wikipedia) multiply by 4 equals 4.272 lt Did get transport Tasmania to agree to fitting ls1 5.7 lt but only due to me having applied for approval and had it approved before they started pushing the weight to capacity formula I do have a copy of original road track article which shows 280z weight if that's any use to u good luck Mick
nizm0zed Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 understandably though taking their side, a 280z in the states isnt the same as a 260z here. so, as fas as they are concerned that info is irrelevant, hence why they will only go off the 'standard' weight of that model measured when it was complied originally back in 1970-whatever it was. Its a matter of standing against a legal black and white scenario. If you were to say "ok, the US 280z is basically the same car" then you let the heavier engine in, you then have to apply that to all variants of all cars available. Say there was a car here that only ever came with a 4 cyl, and a 6 cyl as a performance special edition, but in the states or somewhere else in the world has a v8, along with all the necessary chassis strengthening for that local option. You could then argue that because that model overseas was v8 and weighed 300kg more, then your original 4 cylinder local model can handle a 12L V16 twin turbo. You can see how it can become a slippery slope of interpretation, hence why it needs to be a very black and white ruling to the letter of what can and cant be done.
zed240au Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 I don't have a problem with the rule the formula seems fine but trying to dig up information for a car imported 40 years ago is not exactly thick on the ground and is a major challenge to find so when u manage to find a weight in print from a magazine time correct I would think that would meet the requirements The 280z is usa version of 260z and as such a weight printed in black and white as this rule requires should carry some strength its not just the 280z I quoted but I had articles that covered 240z 260z and 280z all with weights listed Just the 280z is the last of the s30 chassis and as such the heaviest listing I could find which is what the modification rules allow for I would think that having a standard car weighted at a weighbridge would be more applicable than this rule as it stands now mick
Scoota G Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 I would still like to know what vehicle we are talking about in regards to the regulations.
44014 Posted July 21, 2013 Author Posted July 21, 2013 I would still like to know what vehicle we are talking about in regards to the regulations. 75 260Z
44014 Posted July 21, 2013 Author Posted July 21, 2013 call the tech standrds department at your RTA. Basically when the 'standard' car was complied initially in order to regulate the rest of the mass produced models coming in the weights of the different models were recorded and became the 'standard' weight. It doesnt matter if you weighbridge it with a full cage and reinforced bodywork (Essentially meaning it could handle a more powerful engine) as far as the RTA and the engineer is concerned, ALL of the models under a particular category all weigh the same amount. Its also a wet weight, so assuming some fuel, fluids, average driver weight ect. Im sure its probably recorded somewhere, but sometimes its just easier to go to the source. At the end of the day, that is where the engineer is going to source it from too. I can't find a ph# for anything called a techs standard board ... I have no doubt if I call qld transport ill spend half an hour of my life wasted on the phone and they won't be able to give me a answer.
44014 Posted July 21, 2013 Author Posted July 21, 2013 Multiple post Monday ! So my gvm is blank on my ADR plate ... So basically if I stamp that with what ever weight I want who are they to argue ?
nizm0zed Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-modifications/Light-vehicle-modifications.aspx Post: Vehicle Standards Department of Transport and Main Roads PO Box 673 Fortitude Valley Qld 4006 Email: vehiclestandards@tmr.qld.gov.au There's a start for you. Edit: Here's a phone number. For further advice regarding vehicle modifications, call the Vehicle Standards and Modifications Advice Team on (07) 3114 5844. 2 minutes of google before going to work.
PeterAllen Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 ... I have no doubt if I call qld transport ill spend half an hour of my life wasted on the phone and they won't be able to give me a answer. With that attitude you are not going to get very far So my gvm is blank on my ADR plate ... So basically if I stamp that with what ever weight I want who are they to argue ? . That sort of moronic action leads to tougher regulations for everyone. You give genuine guys who do the right thing a bad name... Grow up.
44014 Posted July 22, 2013 Author Posted July 22, 2013 With that attitude you are not going to get very far . That sort of moronic action leads to tougher regulations for everyone. You give genuine guys who do the right thing a bad name... Grow up. Peter Allen ... Keep your opinions to yourself chief ...
d3c0y Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 Kinda makes sense to ask here before ringing transport to me Peter... There are other conversion threads where people say they cant get a straight answer from transport and with the amount of engine swaps here you think someone would already have the answer. With that attitude to helping members you are not going to get very far...
PeterAllen Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 Kinda makes sense to ask here before ringing transport to me Peter... ...With that attitude to helping members you are not going to get very far... He did ask and Mick, Alan, Jason and Mark, all experienced in S30 engine swaps, advised him to enquire through the proper channels, yet after that he still want to fraudulently alter the vehicle ID plate. I might be a grumpy old bastard but it's evident I have plenty of justification.
44014 Posted July 22, 2013 Author Posted July 22, 2013 http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-modifications/Light-vehicle-modifications.aspx Post: Vehicle Standards Department of Transport and Main Roads PO Box 673 Fortitude Valley Qld 4006 Email: vehiclestandards@tmr.qld.gov.au There's a start for you. Edit: Here's a phone number. For further advice regarding vehicle modifications, call the Vehicle Standards and Modifications Advice Team on (07) 3114 5844. 2 minutes of google before going to work. Thank you ! I gave them a call and there is no "master list" I just have to show the owners or workshop manual stating the weight of the vehicle from Nissan to the engineer. Ps: I googled for those contact details last night and must of scrolled straight past them . Cheers Doug
Scoota G Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 My engineer did nothing more than ask me how much the vehicle weighed, the silly bugger at vic roads took one look at the certificate and said "This is for a Ford" i then had to point out in front of two of his female co-workers that Ford was the make of the Engine fitted after which point he started making me jump forward around backwards and sideways. He was even refusing to have the car inspected on the day and stated that i must have the address and the name of the previous owner even though i bought it as an unregistered rolling shell that had never been recorded as being registered in Australia. At the end of the day you may be dealing with people who have little or no experience with Datsuns.
PeterAllen Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 Doug - I know it's painful because I and the others have been through it but as you can see you did get an answer, albeit verbal. However, you are now just as likely to find the engineer won't accept the Nissan weights and will want one from the Department. I would write to the Dept and obtain a written response and keep it on file (play the bureaucrates at their own game). It's a merry-go-round we've all been on. Establish a contact with an engineer and see what he/she want as they are the one to sign off. I have copies of the original documentation Nissan (Capital Motors - Arnold Glass) submitted to the RMS. Mate, there are no short cuts. Good luck with the build. The GOB
dalee Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 At the end of the day you may be dealing with people who have little or no brains.
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