Can z car enthusiasts influence Nissan ?

[positivetennis]

With talk about a cheaper zed on the horizon I've always wondered whether Nissan would be willing to build a car that looked exactly like a 240z if enough people around the world requested that they do so. There are so many folks out there who are still after a Datsun 240z, but can't get one because they are either getting hard to find and/or have rust/fume issues. The shape even today remains one of the best I've seen along with the 2000gt and E type's. While there is a 370z available I still don't feel it has that exotic look (personal view ). With so many enthusiast clubs around the world for these cars must mean something to Nissan's R & D department. I think that Nissan/Datsun should have kept the 240z shape going  like Porsche has done with the 911 and built larger cars like 300zx's to fulfill the GT market. Do people in this forum like the s30 shape enough to present a case to Nissan possibly on a global scale to build a 240z with better safety and mechanical package.

[zzzzed]

Aparrently in the not to distant past Nissan did make some reissue s30 chassis zeds however I havnt even seen a picture of one to say of this is true

[RB30X]

How many beers were consumed before you came up with this idea? Just sayin.

[Michael]

I'll Try to find the link but from memory, Nissan Did, Buy back and restore a number of cars (Wasn't too many), Then resold back to the public, Whether they changed anything i Doubt that, However it was a Interesting read from memory

[Gordo]

Yes I remember that. I think it was in the USA.

[positivetennis]

Yes,  Nissan USA definately set up zed stores in an effort to keep the Z name alive when the Z32 was killed off around 96. They were even sold with a 12 months warranty for around 29k. Cars were bought back, restored with components left over in Japan and sold as new cars. During this period Nissan was in finacial trouble.

 

With the Toyota 86 coming out as a lighter rwd sports coupe with styling inspiration from the 2000gt, priced under 40k  has prompted rumours that Nissan will release a lighter alternative to the 370z to compete with Toyota/Subaru. I think this is an ideal time for z car enthusiasts around the world to express their views as to what this car should look like.

 

It would be fantastic to see Nissan showrooms and yards full of new 240z's priced under 40k in light metallic blues, greens, mustard yellow and datsun red. I think it would be a sensation.

 

 

 

 

[dat2kman]

Can Z enthusiasts influence Nissan?

In a word, NO

 

Unless there is around 50,000 potential buyers who are prepared to pay around 30 to 35 k for a spirty type car.

Biggest issue is that most early Z enthusiasts whinge and bitch and moan about paying any more than 11,000 for a VGC early Z.

Why would Nissan think for one minute that these cheap car buyers would be prepared to fork out 35 k on a car!

 

These new hot sporty RWD cars are cashing in in an image, indirectly the BMW drive experience, as wrll as the Subaru AWD influencegurss what, those markets are the ones who aspire to a BMW or a Subie WRX, but are on a beers budget.

 

Nissan have marketing people that know the early Z enthusiast will not buy, in mass, in the quentities required, a rebirthed 240Z

[RB30X]

Exactly.

 

According to Nissan, not enough people are buying their current z let alone some version of an S30 that will not tick everyone's boxes anyway.

 

[FuzzyDropbear]

...

Biggest issue is that most early Z enthusiasts whinge and bitch and moan about paying any more than 11,000 for a VGC early Z.

...

 

I rekon this has hit the nail on the head. I think people who are willing to buy a 2 seater S30 already have bought them. Why would someone who won't buy a 240z buy a 'new' version of it?

 

People argue about z's over $11k... Would it even be possible for a car manufacturer to produce a sports car for this price anymore? Considering they would have to remake all the molds etc.

 

and further to that, why remake a car which uses technology which is 40 years old? I would hope they would correct aero problems and update suspension and engine.. in which case, would it really be an S30?

 

...

It would be fantastic to see Nissan showrooms and yards full of new 240z's priced under 40k in light metallic blues, greens, mustard yellow and datsun red. I think it would be a sensation.

 

It would be sensational, but who would buy them?

[260Coupe]

Even if it was commercially viable for Nissan to bring out a "modern version" of the S30 , the external shape would now be heavily influence by the latest ANCAP safety and design rules.

Look at the modern incarnations of old cars ( VW Beetle, the Mini, Fiat Bambino (500) to name a few) - all have integrated bumbers , air bags a plenty etc and mostly built on floor plans shared by other models.

 

To reincarnate an early Zed into a moden version would either by heavily compromised in that it would have to share a platform (not really possible as there are no other Front Engien RWD cars of similar dimensions in the Nissan range (that I know of)  or be so costly to produce that it would defeat the purpose of being an " inexpensive" light weight sports car.

 

My 2c

 

Al.

[positivetennis]

Thank you everyone for your prompt and thoughtful replies, some interesting insights. I think a 240z replica with modern technology, safety improvements for 35k would be sensational. As far as not wanting to pay more than 11k for a 240z I see things as follows:

1. The problem with many 240z's/260z's which are usually advertised  is that when you go and see one, there is always rust, fumes, cracked dashes, and an interior that looks very cheap and rough. It is very rare that you find a very nice car, so people usually give up and buy a newer car for a cheaper price. In the last 6 months in sydney I have hardly been able to track down a decent 260z coupe that I could purchase for under 15k. There was one which was bought sight unseen before I had the opportunity to see it but that was it.

 

2. The 370z at 60k new is overpriced in Australia when 2 year old US cars sell for 18k, us Australians are playing too much, so we buy less of them . Apart from the rear quarter window, the rest of the does not have the elegance or tension of the s30, the door handles are a terrible, and anyone who is remotly tall cannot fit comfortably. The 350z looked to much like an Audi TT.

 

3. The ft86 has sold out because people have been hanging out to by a RWD with swoopy styling that is affordable. If Nissan had done that with a modern day s30, they too could be cashing in. I can't believe it took Toyota so long to produce this type of car. Even the 280zx which was criticized  by the media world wide was a huge sales success because the public liked those e-type headlights, long bonnet, low seating position which had a unique sports car look.

 

I think Nissan R & D needs to listen to their potential consumers so that we can get the cars we want, otherwise we will keep getting cars like Tida, Pintara, FWD Maxima, and 300C.

 

[gav240z]

I tend to agree with Mr Tennis, the only real example of such a car was the Mazda MX-5 which sold millions. They stuck with a good concept but as the model progressed it got fatter and heavier than the MK1 version which is 1 of the most popular still.

 

Nissan dropped the ball with the 350z and 370z, I've not driven either but the styling of the 350z really doesn't float my boat, not in the way the 240z does. The 240z is timeless, great design always will be like the old Mustang and old Camaro and Vette's.

 

Aston Martin have managed to produce a stylish coupe, it's possible even with new modern safety concerns etc.. I know I'm biased by the FD RX-7 is another good example of modern design done right.

 

In Australia all these imported cars are over priced due to government taxation, not really the manufacturers fault. The 350z on launch could be had for 25-30K USD.

 

RE: Finding a 260z in good shape for 15K perhaps the problem is compounded by 2 things.

 

1. Many poorly restored examples.

2. Good example don't exist either because owners won't sell them or because market values haven't motivated anyone to properly restore them?

 

I would happily pay the right money for a properly restored example. People can bitch and moan about values but they are 40 years old now.

[positivetennis]

Yes very good points Gav. What I'm working towards here is the prospect of getting Nissan to build it again. Just think how many z clubs there are in the US alone for these cars, as well as Australia, UK, even Hungary is into these cars (have a look at their website). If you get enough people together lobbying Nissan maybe they might get the picture and put Nissan zed cars back to front and centre of the world sports car market. Im pretty sure they have people that can design and build a modern day 240z and sell it world wide. If Toyota after making millions of boring whitegoods ( see Camry) can do the 86, why not Nissan. The response to the 86 has been quite profound, great styling, fun handling, affordable, and attainable if Toyota/Subaru can supply customers who at present have to wait months to get one.

The Datsun 240z is a thing of beauty.

 

 

[positivetennis]

Further to my previous post, Holden could also benefit from lessons learn't from the 86 and have the guts to build the Torana GTX concept car they had in the 70's especially now that the oversize Commodore is slipping in the sale charts. Their brand is going from bad to worse with such ordinary boring cars as Epica and Cruize being forced on the Australian public, garranteed to put you to sleep (Too many cars designed by boring been counters and not by people who have some sense of passion or soul). Holden have to do something inspirational because boring fwd cars are already being made elsewhere and Nissan need to do likewise.

[FuzzyDropbear]

While I'll agree with some of your points, but you have to realise that the Z never was a total budget car. Someone on here did the sums in another thread which looked at the price of a new 260/240z back in the day compared to the cost of a 370z (or may have been 350z) now. The prices actually came up pretty much bang on the same when compared as a percentage of the average wage in Australia and I think when you factored in inflation etc it pretty much made the prices equal.

 

Remember, while the s30 back in the day was a budget sports car, the other sports cars in their day were asking big dollars. $5k was a fair bit of money back then, but cheap compared to an E-type or the like. The problem is, people still expect to find a 'rust free' Z for $5k. And the problem with good looking s30's is that, as many project threads have shown on here, something that looks ok from the outside is actually more than likely rusting from the inside out.

 

...

1. The problem with many 240z's/260z's which are usually advertised  is that when you go and see one, there is always rust, fumes, cracked dashes, and an interior that looks very cheap and rough. It is very rare that you find a very nice car, so people usually give up and buy a newer car for a cheaper price....

 

Rust, fumes, cracked dash and a cheap(ish) looking interior.... This is what owning a classic is all about!!!  Lets face it, interiors have come a long way since the 70's (I would be disappointed if they hadn't). Of course people buy a cheaper newer car, these people really must've wanted a Z to begin with. They may just not understand what's required (time and costs) to maintain and rebuild a car and thus are unprepared to spend the $40k to rebuild one, or the $20k to buy one which someone has already spent $40k on.

 

There's always going to be a market for a cheap, good looking and well handing sports car. Why? Because that's what people want. I haven't seen an 86 in the flesh or driven one so can't comment on how they go. However, the same comments have been made over the years about run of the mill Commodores and Falcons.

 

And hey hey hey, there's nothing wrong with a Pintara  it just needs a few mods to get it to boogy.