RB25 Oil pan for 240Z

[jamo240]

Hey folks. Well project Jamo 250Z is rocking along, and I thought I'd do a sump special for those who are interested in how to build a race sump. Now my car will never really need this, as I'm not intending on racing it, but I started it a while ago, so thought I'd finish it as you have to do a degree of custom work on any RB sump going into a 240/260Z. While I had a look at the Z200R sump, it is not was I am after, as although the bowl is in the right spot, it's way too deep, and will hang down below the cross member height, making it the first thing you'll hit going over a speed bump or similar (let me know if you want one, as the one I have here is now surplus to requirements!).

 

Anyway, I can't for the life of me remember where I got the donor sump from, as it too is a rear bowl setup, but NOT a Z200R...I can only imagine it came off some kind of RB powered 4WD, as I got it here in Australia, but too many years ago to remember what it came off. The pickup I have used is off the same engine, and it kinda worked out nicely in terms of where the pickup ended up, in that I could use it without modification. Otherwise, all the rest is custom made, and is what we used to make for the Gibson R31 Skylines (2.0 litre RB20 powered).

 

 

 

[jamo240]

In case it needs explaining, the way it works is to hold the oil in chambers on each side of the central part of the surge chamber, and then when you corner, brake or accelerate, the flap valves shut to prevent oil leaving the central chamber, but open in the case of chambers that are able to supply oil into the central chamber. This means that the engine is always supplied with oil under any condition.  The final part of the design not shown in the pics is the top that screws onto the side frames.

[C.A.R.]

Good stuff!

I'm in the middle of making a race sump myself, for a 280ZX club car:

 

 

 

Thanks for the pics, as it gives me some more ideas for the trap-doors & wings...

[jamo240]

Good stuff Lurch. I have an L-series one here too, but it's got to stay with the engine it's on!

 

I forgot to mention that you make the pivot for the flap valves out of 'Gap-ex' TIG welding rod (the 3.5mm stuff). Works a treat. The 3 tabs on the flap valves are 10mm wide, and 11mm high. That will allow you to wrap the end ones around the gapex nicely. The centre tag is bent at an angle of your choosing to limit the extent to which the flap can open...that will modulate the flow of oil into the centre chamber.

 

Cheers

[C.A.R.]

Ahhhhh righto.

 

I actually bought some hinges from the local hardware shop & was going to remove the pin & refit with some Tig wire.

I've seen the Tig wire fixed at one end on the hinge & the other bent at an angle to limit the flap movement...

 

More to think about!

[peter mc]

Hi Jamo

will you be making these, as i have two engines that need good sumps would like 7L

thanks peter mc

[jamo240]

Hey Peter

 

I guess I could make some. I don't know where I'd get the donor sumps though, unless you are aware of what RB application they came off. I seem to remember getting mine from a wrecker down in Moorabin about 10 or so years ago when I bought an RB30 short from a VL that I was going to build up. While you could build one up on a front bowl donor sump, it would be more messing around to deal with distortion and also not as neat.

 

Cheers

 

[jamo240]

Here are a few more views.

 

Pete: The sump volume is a bit more than 7L at the standard dip-stick level.

 

[jamo240]

Oh yeah....the 45 degree cut outs on the back of each of the sump wings are to provide clearance for the engine to transmission beaming braces...I intend to use those to reduce vibration and harshness...if you don't care about that, you don't need to provide this clearance.

 

Cheers

 

[salty]

sumps from these maybe more plentiful........and are the same

240C,260C an 280C

[jamo240]

Hey Salty....I meant donor RB sumps...not L series sumps (as in out of a 240/260/280C). I would need donor rear bowl RB sumps.

 

I think Nato 240Z was going to make some RB sumps from scratch at one stage too...don't know what happened there though.

[salty]

my suggestion was ,if your looking for sumps , the "C" series would more plentiful

I thought thats what your preference was 

anyway, just a thought

[jamo240]

You bet Salty..thanks for the thought...I will look into it.

 

Cheers

[C.A.R.]

You bet Salty..thanks for the thought...I will look into it.

 

Cheers

Bwahahaha. Very diplomatic...!

[jamo240]

Ha Lurch! Always like to acknowledge someone trying to help!

 

For info, I'm pretty sure the rear bowl RB sumps come from the RB30 powered Nissan Patrols (Y60?) of the late 80's/early 90's....probably a pick-a-part item these days.

 

Cheers

 

[salty]

Bwahahaha. Very diplomatic...!

sarcasm only belittle's you in the eye's of the observer

[peter mc]

it looks good Jamo and they are hard to find iv been out looking in the last week or so, so i could make one like yours i might have to make one from scratch ...  :

 

salty don't worry about lurch he likes to sterr the pot ....and he is good at it ,,

[jamo240]

Hey Pete

 

I reckon (just an educated guess) the right donor sump might be off the RB30 powered Patrol. I have a mate who is well connected with the Patrol scene, so I'll ask him if he knows where any old engines might be found....meantime you might want to tap your sources to find out if any still exist...even through Nissan perhaps??

 

Although I don't need the work given I'm knee deep in finishing my own car, I have all the patterns and jigs, so it would be faster for me to make you one than for you to do one from scratch.

 

Cheers

[jamo240]

Hey folks....here are a few more pics of the windage tray top detail. The tray is important to both contain the oil in the centre surge chamber while driving, as well as directing the oil back to where you want it as it returns from the operating parts of the engine. The motion imparted to the oil from the movement of the crankshaft and rods can be used to help direct the oil to where you want it using diverting vains and louvres. If you put louvres or vains in your windage tray, make sure they are facing the right way! You will also note the hole provided for the pickup tube strainer is rather large. This is because of the strainer I am using on this engine (90mm dia). If I was racing this car, I would use a smaller dia strainer to reduce the size of this hole, and would also ensure the shape of the tube allowed me to move the hole as far forward as possible while positioning the point of suction at least half way between the back end of the hole and the rear wall of the surge chamber, thus providing a sealed box at the back of the surge chamber during hard acceleration and cornering, which is when oiling requirements are greatest. The idea of the wings is to feed the chamber during cornering, while the front chamber feeds it during acceleration. As far as possible, you want oil returning from the top end to be directed back to the centre chamber. Also note there are a couple more louvres and a vains to be added before it's finished.

 

If you get it right, you can eliminate the need for the complexity of a dry sump setup!

 

Cheers

[peter mc]

nice work Jamo like your work

[jamo240]

Another thing to consider in the design of your oiling system....

 

Be cautious of high volume/pressure oil pumps....just because some is good, doesn't always mean more is better! By increasing the oil pressure, the pump does more work on the oil, which heats it up more...you don't want unnecessary heat. Likewise, increasing oil pump volume is not helpful if the engine can't use it (increased volume is primarily consumed by increased main and rod bearing/side clearance, or the addition of oil consuming devices such as turbochargers). If this hasn't occurred, then the increased volume cannot go anywhere, and hence will be by-passed through the oil pump relief system (no effect except to heat the oil), or will be by-passed back to the sump. Now after all the trouble we're going to to get the oil into the centre surge chamber, we don't want to pump it out only to dump it out in the wrong part of the sump, or just by-pass it and heat it up for no gain. Bottom line: don't automatically specify a high volume/pressure oil pump...consider the application/specification/design of the engine oiling system, and whether it is indeed warranted. You don't want to pump the oil out of the pan at any greater rate than the engine requires it.

 

Cheers

[Scando]

Nice work Jamo, that looks fantastic!

You've definitely given me some great ideas for my sump.

Thanks for posting up such detailed info and pics for us all.

 

And yep, the rear bowl RB30 sumps are from Patrols.  That's what I'm using to start with.

[garvice]

Another sump to start with would be an RD28 sump, though that has a deeper section. Holds 9/10 liters stock, but far too deep for our applications.

[KatoKid]

You should be in politics Jamo! I hear the top job will be up for grabs soon.....I drive a Z and I vote!

[jamo240]

Thanks for the kinds words boys.

 

In looking at the outline of the donor sump (Patrol RB30), you could actually use one of these sumps bone standard in a 240/260Z for everyday street applications, and the bottom is at just the right height to hide behind the cross member.

 

Cheers